AC problems AGAIN !!

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  #1  
Old 07-11-03, 05:35 PM
conscience4u2
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Unhappy AC problems AGAIN !!

Larry the Toyotaman,
Well, I'm back again for a little more expertise from you and anyone else who might be able to shed some light on this problem. AGAIN it's the AC in my Celica. As I said in one of the last replies of the original post, I replaced the AC amplifier and it SEEMED to fix the problem, UNTIL today !! The flashing of the AC button didn't start again, but the AC just stopped blowing cold. What I need Larry, is for you to explain how I can check the other things you said might be the problem with my AC in the original post. These were the things you listed and in the same order. ** I checked the belt and it wasn't loose, that was the first thing you said to check, so on to number 2. **
#2. Bad rpm sensor in the compressor. How do I check this and replace it ? And PLEASE give me step-by-step directions so I don't mess it up.
#3. Broken wire from the rpm sensor to the AC amp. How do I check this and replace it. Step-by-step here also, please ! Any and all help everybody can give me with my being able to finally fix this problem, HOPEFULLY FOR GOOD will be greatly appreciated ! 4u2
 
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  #2  
Old 07-11-03, 05:37 PM
Joe_F
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Does it just blow hot air or not blow anything?

It may need a recharge----that requires proper equipment and tools to do right.
 
  #3  
Old 07-11-03, 06:08 PM
conscience4u2
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Hey Joe,
It blows air, but not cold. By recharging, I guess you mean with coolant. I had that checked at the place where I have it serviced, and it's ok there. When you check the rpm sensor, can you check it with an "OHM" (I hope that's the way you spell it !! ) meter ? If you can, how would I do that and what should it read ? Also, how will you know if the rpm sensor IS bad ? Will it look differently ? How SHOULD it look normally ? Thanks, 4u2
 

Last edited by conscience4u2; 07-11-03 at 09:16 PM.
  #4  
Old 07-13-03, 09:02 PM
conscience4u2
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HELP !!

PLEASE, doesn't anyone have any suggestions or ideas on what I can do to fix this AC problem I have ? How about any possible answers ANYONE has on the questions I just asked in my last two posts ? If I don't have the directions or steps to check those things, I'll never be able to get it fixed !
Come on GUYS, you're my only hope ! Thanks, 4u2
Toyotaman, where are you ?
 
  #5  
Old 07-14-03, 01:44 AM
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,531
If the light is not flashing you don't have the same problem. Therefore no need to diagnois that system.

Agree with Joe, have it checked by a A/C professional, if they are, they will be able to provide the answer.

Larry
 
  #6  
Old 07-14-03, 09:07 AM
Joe_F
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4U2:

Please be patient. Larry and the rest of us here are busy folks. We give up our time for free (during working hours at times) for free to answer posts with NO compensation. We do have lives and responsibilities outside this forum .

Bear with us . Enough said.

Do you have a repair manual? If so, which one. If no, why not? You have to help us help you a bit. Tell us what you've checked.

You cannot fix this in the blind. YOU MUST have the proper service information to tackle this problem.

Let's start there. That will be a good starting point for whether or not you want to tackle the job.
 
  #7  
Old 07-14-03, 10:36 AM
conscience4u2
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Question

Joe_F,
I understand completely, sooo sorry if I gave the wrong impression by my anxiousness. But having to deal with my ex on this problem over the weekend brought me to my wits end ! **Hope everyone can at least sympathize...
You guys do such a fantastic job here, I guess those of us who come to you for help start to depend on you a little too much at times. Again, I apologize.
Yes, I have a repair manual, Haynes Celica 1986 thru 1992, but it says nothing about this kind of problem.
This is what the toyotaman said about it in my original post.
Loose belt
Bad rpm sensor in the compressor(would go open probably when it heats up)
Broken wire from the rpm sensor to the a/c amp
Bad a/c amplifier
Bad a/c clutch
(I was told (by someone else) I needed to check the Blower Speed Control Relay too.)

Now for what I did.
**I was scared to death to mess with the compressor so I thought I'd check the other things first if I could. **
#1. Had the belt checked- belt is fine.
#2. Replaced control unit in the dash - Still did the same thing.
#3. Had the system checked and charged- Didn't help.
#4. Replaced blower speed control relay- didn't help.
#5. Replaced a/c amplifier- found a black/burnt looking spot on it. SEEMED to fix the problem, UNTIL this past Friday when it stopped blowing cold.
#6. ac clutch checked and is fine
Toyotaman/Joe_F,
*My ex husband is an ac man, but WILL not work on foreign cars, especially mine, hence the aggravation and frustration levels this past weekend. * I told him it was not working again, so this weekend he brought the stuff to check coolant levels and charge it up. I told him the toyotamans suggestions so,
#7. He unplugged the plug going to the RPM sensor, took a separate piece of wire, and jumped it. It made no difference. After him doing that, the compressor or the condensor fan won't come on. The AC button light is flashing again now when you turn it on and it starts to flash after being on for just a few seconds. So the AC won't stay on long enough for him to be able to check the coolant levels. He says junk the car, live with no air (being in my mid 40's AND living in Alabama where our days in the summer usually run in the high 90's, no air is NOT even a possibility) , or run wires straight to bypass that wire. I say, NO WAY !! Mamma always told me,"Fix it right the first time and you don't have to worry about it anymore."
There it is from start to finish. Thanks again for everything. 4u2/Judy
 
  #8  
Old 07-14-03, 10:45 AM
Joe_F
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What year is this vehicle? Sounds like it needs to be gone through thoroughly.....How is the cooling system?

Will the radiator fan work normally?

BTW: The A/C on my 89 Cavalier needs repair too. I have all the parts, will be fixed soon. And I commute 50 miles a day in wicked NYC traffic .

NYC weather in the summer is every bit as viscious in traffic .
 
  #9  
Old 07-14-03, 12:34 PM
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,531
Let Me see if I have this straight:

Starting with #6, the clutch was engaging and the compressor was turning? And the light was not blinking but lit steady? And blowing warm air?

#7 your ex decided to short the rpm wires together and now the clutch dosen't engage and the lite is blinking? If so the best thing you could hope for is a blown fuse. The worst is a bad a/c amp.

You still may have the orginal problem, comp engaged no cold air!

Larry
 
  #10  
Old 07-15-03, 07:36 PM
conscience4u2
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Exclamation

toyotaman,
Sorry I couldn't get back to you before now. My ISP is doing some upgrading and we've been without internet for a few days.
BEFORE he jumped the wires the clutch was not engaging and the compressor was not turning, but the ac light was burning steady.
AFTER he shorted the wires, the clutch and the compressor both worked, but just for a minute. The ac light started to blink almost immediately and every time it started to blink, I would reset it and it would start to blink again within a few seconds. The condensor fan never did come on though.

joe_f,
Myrtle, (my daughter named her that when she drove her to high school) is a 1988 Celica GT Coupe, manual 5-speed.
Cooling system-(I hope you mean the water in the radiator) still working fine.
Radiator fan-still working right.
** Maybe if I can get this posted pretty quickly tonight you guys MIGHT have a chance to give me a suggestion of something to try.** Thanks SOOO much !! Judy
BTW- Good luck on your ac repair. I hope you don't have any of the problems I've had !!
 
  #11  
Old 07-15-03, 09:33 PM
Joe_F
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Arrow

If you have a little time on your hands, hit the local public library. Some have Alldata computer subscriptions and others have Motor and Mitchell books---the same ones the pros use. Browse through the AC sections and make the copies you need.
 
  #12  
Old 07-16-03, 12:03 PM
conscience4u2
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Unhappy

joe_f,
I appreciate the suggestions. I have an older Mitchell book that has my car in it and there is nothing in it that shows all the ac parts, all it basically covers is collision repair. And I'm afraid I'll have to try something else besides the local library. All of them around where I live, within approx. a 30-45 minute drive, do not subscribe to Alldata, (they just recently started supplying public internet access ! ) and forget them having a motor or Mitchell repair book. Most of what they have is romance novels for the older ladies to read and an encyclopedia here and there. BTW - the major part of the books they do have are donated by people who don't want them anymore, so they are all used and in not so good shape.
So, I guess I'm back to square one, still no air.
I'd still LOVE to be able to fix this on my own for several reasons, including being LOTS cooler as I drive AND showing my ex that I can do it, (even though he has been no help with it !).
Would it be at all possible to check the first things I asked about and start there ? Just in case everbody forgot what they were...

Bad rpm sensor in the compressor.
Where IS this wire ?
How do I check it and replace it ?
Broken wire from the rpm sensor to the AC amp.
How would check for a broken wire ?
How would I FIND this broken wire ?
How would I replace it ?
Also, does anyone think the problem might be in either the hi pressure switch or the low pressure switch ?
If this might be possible, where are these switches exactly ?
Thanks again for everything. 4u2
 
  #13  
Old 07-16-03, 12:14 PM
Joe_F
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Your best bet would be to invest in a $25 Alldata.com subscription. It's good for a year and will get you all of the factory wiring diagrams. You'll learn a lot reading through that stuff.

Without a wiring diagram, it will be tough to trace any electrical problems in the system.

I just sold an OEM Toyota shop manual for a 1988 Celica two weeks ago .
 
  #14  
Old 07-16-03, 01:44 PM
knuckles
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Word of caution here...

I like Alldata, but I researched this problem there & came up disappointed.

They DO offer a wiring diagram for the system, but that's about it. There's a basic description of system operation, but not much diagnostic info.

Mitchell REPAIR manuals are much different than Mitchell Collision Repair manuals. Suggest you hit the library as Joe suggested. Either that or hit ebay in search of an OEM manual.
 
  #15  
Old 07-16-03, 03:00 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
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Posts: 438
My $.02 a little late. Toyota Green Books (shop manuals) are usually available on eBay. A very good investment. Even found a set for my old MR2.

Sounds like a fuse or relay problem to me.
Toyotaman...wouldn't the condender fan relay not operating cause most of the symptoms she's describing??? My only Toyo experience is the MR2 and I've found it's a little hard to tell the cause from the symptoms on the A/C.
 
  #16  
Old 07-16-03, 05:26 PM
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,531
My intention is not to discourage you BUT,

Given the OEM manuel and the wiring diagram for this car and no prior experience, chances are slim in repairing it.

The overview of the system operation I gave you is not in the manuel. I seen someone swap out every part (from a donor car)of the system only to fail in repairing it. Because it was in the wiring.

The Toyota manuel is not like GM, Ford even Honda with step by step diagnosis procedures.

Having said that you problem seems to fit an all to familiar one. You started with one symptom and seemed to introduce another, the worst to diagnosis. Original and man made problems.

Larry
 
  #17  
Old 07-16-03, 11:01 PM
conscience4u2
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Unhappy

OK guys,
This Mitchell Repair Book, I found one. Should it say on the cover, "Mechanical Labor Estimating Guide ?" If it's the correct book I should use, please let me know. How about a Chilton Repair Manual ? Get one or no ?

toyotaman,
I realize and understand that you are NOT trying to discourage me, and thanks for that. Some men DO fall victim to thinking that women can't or shouldn't try fixing these kinds of things.
I agree with you, to a certain extent anyway. I don't have the experience, knowledge, or talent to fix this by myself. Which is only one reason I came here for help. But I do have some resources available to me, one being my ex (the ac man), even though he won't work on foreign cars. He reluctantly agreed to fix this IF I could give him the places to start. So, the actual repair of this wouldn't be done completely by me alone. I have the wiring diagrams for my car but no OEM manual. I'm looking for one though.

dirty dan,
Thanks for the ideas, I'll check them.
Where is the condensor fan relay, and I'll check that too ?

knuckles,
Thanks for the heads up about alldata.

joe_f,
SURE do wish you still had that manual !!

Thanks everyone. Maybe I shouldn't completely give up on being able to fix this "by myself". 4u2
 
  #18  
Old 07-17-03, 02:44 AM
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,531
The man woman thing never entered into my mind.

I work with 18 people, maybe 2 of them could diagnosis and repair this problem correctly. 3 or 4 may repair it by changing a bunch of parts. The rest not a hope! These 18 people work on Toyota's all day long!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down the people I work with but everybody has different skills and talents. The people that couldn't repair this problem handle other jobs very well.

Larry
 
  #19  
Old 07-17-03, 03:46 AM
Joe_F
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I agree with Larry----many of the manuals for these earlier Toyotas are a bit on the crude side.

However, they do have detail and information that many of the other books leave out. Mostly pictoral with some lackluster English, since it's translated from Japanese.

I'm confused about what role your ex husband is going to play. If he's going to do the repairs, then simply find the right (or best you can) service information and have him fix it.

Foreign cars/American cars, it's all steel with four tires when you fix them for a living or you fix them. Sure, American iron is far superior, but once you know how things operate, you CAN learn.

It's like saying an HVAC man will fix a Trane home unit but turn down a Lenox because of where it's made. LOL.

My suggestion to you is to price out the cost of the manuals, parts and what not versus having a GOOD independent shop look at it. It may be cheaper for the latter, especially if it might involve discharging the system or specialized tools.
 
  #20  
Old 07-17-03, 10:06 PM
conscience4u2
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Larry,
I didn't figure it had, (the man/woman thing), just a comment on my part. You guys here, go way far beyond any expectations.
Fantastic bunch of people I've found here !! I understand and agree with you. Different people positively have much different interests, skills, and talents. It would be awfully boring if we were all the same.

Joe_f,
The role my ex is going to play, is as little as he can. I figured that since he was an ac man (he's actually an HVAC Serviceman by trade, but certified to work on both, home and auto) it would be something he could handle and keep me from having to go elsewhere. Boy was I ever wrong ! He says, yes that most ac's are basically the same, except for foreign ones. And you want to know the weird thing ? The reference you made to the Trane & Lenox ac's hit it right on the head. He and his brother are in business together, and they will not work on all kinds of units. Strange, huh ?
Anyway, he basically told me he would fix it, but I had to get him the information/directions to do it because he's never worked on foreign cars like mine. Plus he does not want to learn or start working on them. Says their ac systems are weird. Here's a
couple of examples: he didn't know there was an ac amplifier on my car, doesn't know where the hi pressure switch OR the low pressure switch is on my car. You could have knocked him over with a feather when I pulled the ac amplifier out and showed him the place that looked like it was burnt on it !!
Anyway, guess I'm just trying to fight a loosing battle here,,,,,
I DO want to thank everyone who tried to help. I really appreciate it. If you happen to think of anything else, please let me know. Thanks again guys, Judy
 
  #21  
Old 07-18-03, 05:50 AM
Joe_F
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Either he's very busy, or he doesn't need the work .

My neighbor's philosophy and I agree: It's all green. You work on whatever comes to your door (within reason, if the customer is reasonable). If you specialize, sometimes you'll find yourself out of work, depending on the marque/demand for your service (there are exceptions of course). We worked on everything from a 1980 Chevette with no floor on one side to a 1978 Rollys Royce to a 1975 Bricklin. Didn't matter, we did it. LOL.

Theory of operation is theory of operation. Period. Sounds like he doesn't want to mess with it for other reasons, not knowledge .

It's going to be tough to pick and point at the problem like Larry said. I would suggest you DO get some quotes and analysis from GOOD repair shops that will look at the problem in depth. It is quite important to diagnose, not replace parts or this will get expensive in a hurry.

On something like this, we would usually call our Toyota contacts to have them help out, or we had a good rapport with the dealer to breeze through their OEM manuals to see what was what.

As Larry said if the OEM manual is sketchy (but I believe there are other resources out there for this from the OEM), with limited knowledge, it may still be a guessing game on your part.

I'll look in Alldata later, but it seems that Knuckles already has you covered there .
 
  #22  
Old 07-18-03, 09:08 AM
Joe_F
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Original poster:

I took a fast look in Alldata for a 1988 Celica with a 2.0 3SFE engine, guessing which one you have, since you don't give us the Toyota engine designation from under the hood on the emission sticker.

From what I can see, Alldata has a fair amount of information and diagrams on the system. Frankly, if you don't know how to work with this information, it's going to be very daunting for you.

It seems as though your husband doesn't want to mess with this in much depth. I believe it's going to take staying with this problem to lick it. (i.e. it will be time consuming). I believe Alldata should have the information he needs. In that case it may be worth the $25 for an annual suscription for this vehicle.

A shop's labor is worth at least $60 an hour around here, so you might be ahead of the game if you find the problem with the information you get from Alldata.

Some of the information seems to be ripped from the factory manual, so it should be fairly decent.

Good luck and let us know what you decide and figure out.
 
  #23  
Old 07-18-03, 09:09 AM
Joe_F
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Original poster:

I took a fast look in Alldata for a 1988 Celica with a 2.0 3SFE engine, guessing which one you have, since you don't give us the Toyota engine designation from under the hood on the emission sticker.

From what I can see, Alldata has a fair amount of information and diagrams on the system. Frankly, if you don't know how to work with this information, it's going to be very daunting for you.

It seems as though your husband doesn't want to mess with this in much depth. I believe it's going to take staying with this problem to lick it. (i.e. it will be time consuming). I believe Alldata should have the information he needs. In that case it may be worth the $25 for an annual subscription for this vehicle if he is willing to work with the problems you have here.

A shop's labor is worth at least $60 an hour around here, so you might be ahead of the game if you find the problem with the information you get from Alldata.

Some of the information seems to be ripped from the factory manual, so it should be fairly decent.

Good luck and let us know what you decide and figure out.
 
  #24  
Old 07-18-03, 11:34 PM
conscience4u2
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Joe_f,
Now, tell me. Just how is it that you were able to figure out my ex sooo quickly and it took me several years to do the same ?
You got it exactly right, he doesn't really want to mess with it. Most of the time in the past, when he HAD to work on my car, the thing he worked on MIGHT have gotten fixed, but his temper added with his unwillingness to even TRY to control it, USUALLY caused me to end up with something else that had to be fixed.
Example: Wrench would slip, he's scrape his knuckles, make him REALLY mad, he throws the wrench as far as he can, and NEVER goes back to get it. I'm positive somebody made several dollars off of him by just waiting til he left for the day and then picking up all his tools. Hmmmm, maybe I should have figured that out too.
Busy,,,, well yes AND no, depends on when they want to be.
I agree, it's all green. If I knew how or what to do, I'd sure try to tackle it myself, just to be able to NOT have to hear him gripe about it ! Maybe one day really soon they'll find themselves NOT nearly as busy as they want to be. Thanks for the good advice. I'll do some checking around here and see what I can come up with. You bet, I'll make sure to let you all know what I find out as well. Maybe I can help somebody else that might have a problem like this to deal with. Thanks again to you and everybody who tried to help, I DO appreciate it. Oh, yeah, if anyone thinks of anything else, please let me know. Thanks again. Judy
 
  #25  
Old 05-10-07, 09:41 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1
Red face Ac Problems

My wire just broke on my air conditioner outside next to all the hose.just one wire.it looks pink and 1 wire not broke is black.inside the house iamm still getting air blowing but no cold air.the blower outside on the airconditioner is not turning.i need to know how to fix that wire.it is so brittle.i touched it and the fan started blowing .then i tried to tape it so it would stay working and the wire broke.eek.iam in trouble now.being a female iam unsure how to fix this wire but determined to fix my self.please let me know the simplest way to fix,thank you
 
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