engine cranks but won't start

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  #1  
Old 07-12-03, 08:31 AM
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engine cranks but won't start

sounds as if it is out of gas, but isn't.

1985 Toyota Camry Fuel Inj.

Previous owner believes that the fuel pump is out. I checked as follows:

1) sprayed starter fluid up into the throttle body (removed air filter) several times - no difference in starting indicated. If it was a fuel problem, wouldn't it at least attempt to start after the starter fluid test?

I discounted a fuel problem and went to the electrical side, as follows:

1) Distributor Cap and rotor: Rotor appears to be in need of change Q: what's the easiest way to check for sparK?

2) Spark Plug Gap: was gapped at .048, while specs in Haynes indicates a proper gap of .043 (Autozone shows .044 on website, as does Advanced Auto Parts). I decreased the gap to .043 - no help in starting.

3) Specs in Haynes shows that the resistance for the primary side of the coil should be 0.3-0.5 ohms - the coil primary measures 0.7 ohms Q: is this too much out of tolerance?

4) the pwr. transistor in the igniter should and does read abt 12-volts (11.7 actual) between the coil neg terminal and ground. Q: why from the neg terminal as opposed to the positive?

5) after reading Joe_Fs "the Basics", I see that to check for a broken timinig belt, you can see if the rotor turns during cranking. But would the rotor turn with the distributor cap off? I mean, how else will I see if the rotor is turning without the cap being off?

In summary, can you give me some basics to check, in addition to the above questions answered. How to check for bad fuel pump, without replacing it? How to check for bad timing belt?

Thanks for your time and consideration,
Terry
 
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  #2  
Old 07-12-03, 08:36 AM
Joe_F
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Ah, very good, started with the basics .

Yes, take the distributor cap off. Crank the motor. If the distributor rotor doesn't turn, the timing belt is broken or has slipped off. Valve damage MAY have occurred

My friend wasted the valves on his Camry, was the same year as this one.

Usually when the timing belt has broken the cranking is very very fast (no compression) over what it normally sounds like.

Make sure the belt isn't broken and we'll go from here.
 
  #3  
Old 07-12-03, 09:15 AM
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Smile brb

thanks Joe - will post later with more info

- Terry
 
  #4  
Old 07-12-03, 07:27 PM
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I agree with Joe.. Check the timing belt first..Then go back to basics.. Easiest way to check for fire- with 1 of the plugs removed, still in the plug wire, have someone crank the car. You may have to have the plug laying/near a ground point (usually a valve cover bolt works fine)

This brings back the time my dad said "hold this, I'm going to check for fire" while we were working on an old lawnmower...I learned a valuable lesson that day.... LOL!


As for fuel problem- It's possible that the injector's aren't firing therefore neither fuel or starting fluid are actually getting into the cylinder's.. BTW- go lightly with the starting fluid in this case..A build-up of fluid and fumes in the intake could lead to a nasty accident!
 
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Old 07-12-03, 07:33 PM
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a quick check following Joe_Fs suggestion revealed that the rotor is not turning when cranking the engine. I suppose a timing belt replacement is in order? Are there any suggestions for this model? 1985 Toyota Camry.

Thanks for the help,
-Terry
 
  #6  
Old 07-12-03, 07:42 PM
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What engine is in it? Hoepfully a 2.2?
 
  #7  
Old 07-12-03, 10:08 PM
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MSA:

Only the 2.0 2SELC was used in a 1985 Camry. That and a diesel engine .

This could be a valve bender---original poster check Gates.com's website. If it is, pull the head off and have it checked by machine shop to be sure.

As I said, my friend wasted the valves on his exact car as this. It was a bit of a PITA of a job, but my friend used the car for 5 years after we did the repairs.

Not to mention he's 6'5", used the car like a truck and drove it hard. Everytime I drove the thing I had move the seat up about 4" as I'm only 5'9". LOL.
 
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Old 07-13-03, 04:36 AM
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As I've said before..I'm older than moses, and memory sometimes fails me..LOL! Appreciate the correction Joe!
 
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Old 07-13-03, 07:05 AM
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Joe_F

Originally posted by Joe_F
.... ---original poster check Gates.com's website. If it is, pull the head off and have it checked by machine shop to be sure.
Joe, what should I check for at gates.com?

Thanks for the help,
-Terry
 
  #10  
Old 07-13-03, 07:46 AM
Joe_F
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To see if your 2.0 engine is interference or not.

If it is, that means when the timing belt breaks, the pistons and valves collide, ruining the valves (this is because the tolerances are so tight).

If so, chances are the valves are bent and the head has to be sent to a machine shop for analysis. It may pay to get a new head.

If you do the repair, Gates makes a timing component kit. I suggest you buy that and replace the water pump when you do the repair.

This is the type of repair where owning an old Japanese car really starts to soak you .
 
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Old 07-13-03, 09:56 AM
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even on known interferance engines--sometimes the valves hit, sometimes they don't hit---do ya feel lucky today

the only way to know is to slap a belt on it and check for compression(i start it with only the timing belt on---nothing else)

or if you know what to look for, pull the valve cover and check valve lash, anything way out of spec is usually a bent valve under it
 
  #12  
Old 07-13-03, 05:57 PM
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Interference Engine

according to gates.com's website chart, this is not an Interference engine (at least there's no (*) in the engine column indicating this).

this is my fors time with this major of a repair so I guess it'll take some time.

thanks again for the help

-T
 
  #13  
Old 07-14-03, 09:12 AM
Joe_F
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Let us know what you find.

The Gates wall chart in my office concurs with that.

I'd suggest a new water pump, belts and hoses at the same time you do this repair.

Also a $25 Alldata.com subscription or a good service manual is going to be invaluable.
 
  #14  
Old 07-16-03, 08:02 AM
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Thumbs up almost done

The timing belt was, indeed, worn and replaced, and it now starts :-)

Now to a secondary problem.

Upon starting, the car seemed to want to die while in idle and a bit rough during driving. So, I replaced the air cleaner (was filthy) and put in new plugs. However, the #3 plug was a monster to get out and upon reinstalling a new plug, I can't get the plug to seat properly - there are still some threads showing but the plug is finger tight and I fear that the old plug had been cross-threaded by the previous installer and the new one won't go in all the way. If the hole threads are in fact damaged, is there a simple fix other than having the head taken off? The other three plugs went in fine and they seat properly (visually, that is) - no threads showing. Shouldn't all plugs go in the same way? One possible thought of mine is that the mechanic who done the timing belt did not remove all the plugs as the manual suggested before replacing the belt. Any thoughts?

-Terry
 
  #15  
Old 07-16-03, 08:54 AM
Joe_F
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If the plug hole is ruined, in many cases it can be rethreaded to the proper size. It can likely be done on the car.

If you had the repair done somewhere, was the stripped threads noted on the bill?
 
  #16  
Old 07-16-03, 09:01 AM
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thanks Joe. stripped threads have not yet been confirmed by a service tech - just my phobias I guess.

is there a technical term I should use when asking for a rethread kit and can this be purchased at an auto parts store?

Thanks again

-Terry
 
  #17  
Old 07-16-03, 09:14 AM
Joe_F
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Tell them you need to retap/rethread a spark plug hole. They can pull the proper spark plug off the shelf and match up the needed tool to do the job.

They may sell kits for the common size plugs in the parts store. I've never actually stripped a spark plug hole .

Then again, almost all of my machines have cast iron cylinder heads---takes a lot to strip them.
 
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