mike in NJ

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  #1  
Old 07-19-03, 01:58 PM
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mike in NJ

Question, I have a 85 Dodge B150 and I would like to put a 360 in. Do you know what's involved? Are you interested in Dropping it in for me. I can leave my van for a long time so time is not an issue.
 
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  #2  
Old 07-19-03, 03:01 PM
Joe_F
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Changing the computer, changing the wiring harness, springs, cooling system, brakes, etc. all to accomodate the added weight and strain of a 360 over a 318. And, it will suck more fuel and still be a pig compared to leaving it stock (different rear end ratio).

In short, it's cheaper to buy a 360 equipped van than to convert one.
 
  #3  
Old 07-19-03, 03:12 PM
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Joe it's all mechanical, no computer, I can't see much added weight as the block is the same, new custom built springs in the front built for the vans weight in the front axel. rear leaf springs have an added leaf. Wiring harness and exaust are the items I'm not sure of. Brakes are all new and I LOVE the van. I have much more money in it than it's worth but to me it's worth it. It's also a camper van. As you know I live in Manhattan and just don't have the space to do this myself and I don't want to farm out the work to a engine exchange joint.
 
  #4  
Old 07-19-03, 03:16 PM
Joe_F
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What advantage do you expect to gain from a 360?

It won't accelerate much better.
It will get poorer fuel mileage.
It won't perform any better.
It won't tow more than with a 318.

It will lay up an otherwise running van for a while till you figure it out.

I just don't see the benefit.
 
  #5  
Old 07-19-03, 11:08 PM
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could i--yes

would i---yes

the question is 'when' would i, not very soon! i'm in over my head with house projects right now.

externally, everything is the same, all accessories and even the exhaust manifolds will bolt right up, ports are a different size though. you will need a 360 torque converter, matched to your trans(904 or 727, lockup or non-lockup), as the 360 is externally balanced and that's where the balance weight is welded. you would need to find a complete and running car/truck/van with the powerplant you desire, either two barrel or four barrel carb(anything pre-magnum, '92). the wiring would be identical as everything is in the same spot. from the outside, the only difference is the 318 or 360 cast into the side of the block above the starter. you would also need the new mounts too.

why would you want to
--more power--you 'might' not notice that little jump in power
--less fuel mileage--you WILL notice less fuel mileage with a 4-barrel carb
--engine completely worn out, smoking and knocking--that would be a good reason

i wouldn't recommend changing rear axle ratios, you probably have a dana 60, if it was converted to a camper correctly. they have their unique characteristics to gear replacements. you probably have a low ratio(high number) already though.


if you brought me the donor car and let me take what i need, then brought me the camper i probably could do it, but it wouldn't happen this year--no chance.

ps. your engine can be rebuilt right inside the van, heads off and pan off, hope for no cylinder wear ridge, new rings, new bearings and new seals, last another 200,000 miles. used engines have their own risks too. if you have a rare 318 motorhome block, i wouldn't change it, you would have big, fat spark plugs if you did, i've only seen this once--in a full size motorhome, class A type.
 
  #6  
Old 07-20-03, 10:06 AM
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Mike, about 3 years ago when I first bought the van I put in a used 86 truck engine, really didn't know if I wanted to keep the van. It lacks power and is warn althought it runs fine. I am hoping now to keep the van almost forever as I really like it and it works for me. I am sure I have cylinder wear on the 318 and get about 10/11 miles to the gallon Rear is a 293 and I believe what they call the small rear. Van sits in storage 6/7 months a year, the storage place runs the engine and ac weekly. I use the van to drive into Mexico where I spend 5/6 months a year. I like that everything is mechanical.
As you can see I'n not in a hurry and I have no problem waiting, just want it done right. I see this engine is on ebay, jasper rebuild, with 4400 miles and a warranty, comes with all ancillary equipment, starter, carb, distributor, headers, etc. Take a look at ebay item #2424003847, tell me what you think. And if you can email me from my link please do if not I will post a email address for you. Only thing I need it by the end of December. Regards
 
  #7  
Old 07-20-03, 01:11 PM
Joe_F
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Have you priced out a Mopar rebuilt? If you plan to keep it, it may be worth it in the long haul.

Chrysler surely contracts with someone to do these, but at least you will have the latest and greatest updates and parts.
 
  #8  
Old 07-20-03, 11:24 PM
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Yes Joe, I priced a Dodge rebuilt and was sure it was 24 carat, was I disappointed when I found out it wasn't. Seriously I think they were way overpriced and feel they didn't want to make a effort to make a sale. They couldn't tell me anything about the engine.
I presume you saw what I was looking at, if so, don't you like it? Or did you not see it. As Mike said, which was the info I needed, the only things I will need are motor mounts and a torque converter. Not a big deal.
As the engine is advertised, and I spoke with the owner at lenght, it was built for a rv and has everything included with a 70,000 mile warranty from Jasper. A 318 from Dodge with all the ancillary gear runs over 4K. I certainly can live with what I have but this seems to be a super deal. I hate to say it but Dodge does not seem to know what they're doing and it seems they certainly don't care one whit. They do have some good people working for them but they need to be found.
 
  #9  
Old 07-21-03, 03:24 AM
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Whatever dealer you are using, remind me not to deal with them.

Is this the same dealer that told you that parts can't be looked up for your vehicle? Because that's pure laziness & ignorance. .

Parts are parts. If you're a parts person, it doesn't matter whether it's a 1982, 1972, or 2002. If you have the parts literature (and if you're a dealer using Bell and Howell/Proquest you can go back to 1982, 1981 on Jeep models). While their parts system is bottom barrel, they can still find the parts .

Find a dealer with a clue. Call MOPAR and ask. Have them fax you a technical sheet and also tell them that the dealer can't and won't find parts for your vehicle. Ask why. I always like to jab a company that plays that game. You'll usually get answers .

Again, aftermarket rebuilds are "OK" but often lack the upgrades found in most OEM rebuilds. GM for instance improves upon problems found in the originals. NOT all aftermarket rebuilds include those "fixes". You might question Jasper about that.
 
  #10  
Old 07-21-03, 07:07 AM
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Joe, do you see the engine I'm talking about? If not give a look. Tell me your thoughts.
 
  #11  
Old 07-21-03, 07:46 AM
Joe_F
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EW:

1) There's no photo of the motor. I like to see what I'm buying on EBay (or anywhere else).

2) The bidding hasn't met the reserve, there's a day left and the highest bid is $305. That usually tells you something (hint: The seller's reserve is way too high) .

3) Half of those parts in my belief are useless and more trouble than they are worth.

4) He states something about used parts and frankly, they could be as old as the hills and worthless to you when you install them on the truck.

5) It's in MD, you're in NYC, so you'd have to go there and pick it up. 4 hours wasted. Shipping this motor could prove to be expensive and if you don't like it, you have to contend with sending it back.

6) Again, Jasper is an aftermarket rebuilder. Chrysler/MOPAR being the OEM sees and still engineers parts for this engine. Hence, they know of the shortcomings of the original vendors and parts and many times they subsequently fix them or use better parts in the rebuild. Yes, some rebuilt parts are BETTER than the originals they replace for this reason.

If you ask me, your money is much better spent elsewhere.

My .02
 
  #12  
Old 07-21-03, 10:42 AM
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Joe, I have photos the guy emailed me, it looks stone clean with a bunch of Jasper stickers on it. Jasper said they will warrenty the engine. All the ancillaries are as he said as old as the engine. Everything was new with the engine. The KnN air filter will go as will the headers.
As far as time goes, I have a whole lot more time than money, picking it up is nothing more than a day out for me.
Jasper says the engine is built with the latest technology.
As I said before my wife's cousin owns a Dodge store and won't deal with me and it's basically the same everywhere I go. I think I ask to many questions. People are not used to that and don't want to deal with it. They prefer brain dead people.
One of the things you mentioned is "find a dealer with a clue" That's like finding a needle in a haystack. sorry to say that but it's the truth.
 
  #13  
Old 07-21-03, 11:04 AM
Joe_F
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Ummm, again, don't know where you're shopping, but most of the dealers I deal with here are able to check that stuff!

I've even helped one of the Pontiac dealers I buy from find parts that he didn't know were available from GM. LOL.

Most dealerships consider a sale a sale. Depends on what questions you are asking. If it's, "Can you tell me the price on a XYZ part for a 1985 Dodge Van, full size?", if I were the parts person, it would all be in a day's work. 9 to 5, it just takes up the day. LOL.

You may wish to buy your own copy of the parts catalog from either Chrysler or find a used one. In that fashion, you can give any dealer the part #s and all they have to do is tell you if it's a good #, superseded or obsolete.

I still can't buy that you can't find a dealer that will look up parts for this old beast.

Me personally: I want the OEM quality engine. Unless Jasper is doing the MOPAR remans, I wouldn't want one. Just me I guess.
 
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Old 07-21-03, 08:46 PM
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today is july 21, 2003 and i agree with joe for the first time. no pictures on e-bay makes it a little questionable. the guy has no rating history, meaning it's his first time or he's hiding something. it is a very good price, but wait and see how high it goes just before it sells, what i've seen is it usually goes way up in the last few hours.

what you are bidding on is someone elses project that didn't work for whatever reason he may tell you, people can make up pretty good stories, like my friends do quite often to make the sale sound so good(especially at the englishtown swap meet).

why would someone spend $2500 (approx) on an engine, buy another $1000 in accessories, whatever labor to install and remove it, then sell it for $305, or even $1500 in 4,000 miles??

did he e-mail you pictures of the 'fuse' on the freeze plug, it looks like a dime with a different colored center, most remanufactured engines have this, if that fuse is melted, it means the engine was overheated and there is no more warranty. even if it is good, i would have to hear the engine run, let it warm up or even drive it before i'd buy it. one bad overheat will crack the heads, starting up the engine without priming the oil pump will scuff bearings. did you talk directly to jasper yourself and explain that you might buy a used reman engine and how would they know the true mileage to keep the warranty in effect. once you buy it, your stuck with it. a LOT of 'ifs' here.


on to your van, the 2.93 gears are highway gears, that is about the best mileage you'll get, if you want better acceleration, try a 3.55 or 3.91, but mileage will definitely suffer big-time. my motto, which i relearn everyday, if it isn't broke, don't fix it. you said it in a previous post---"it runs fine"

when your van is in storage for six months, you should NOT be starting it weekly, all that does is fouls the plugs, adds moisture to the oil and adds more fresh fuel to the carb so more can evaporate and leave more varnish in the bowl and jets. the oil has to heat up to 200F at least, to burn off all the crud it collects, like water vapor and unburned fuel that gets past the rings (pcv valve's job) you should add some fuel stabilizer to the tank, run it til it gets to the carb, then shut it off for good, keep a battery 'minder' on it, not a trickle charger, a minder monitors voltage and charges it only when necessary, a trickle charger will boil the water from the battery if left on long enough.

that's my opinion.
 
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Old 07-22-03, 03:58 AM
Joe_F
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EW:

Just as an aside, I bought two things off of Ebay where the seller left some details out, such as the NOS part I bought was already painted and the Craftsman C-clamp set of 6, only had ONE Craftsman in the lot.

I'll fare OK and make it right, because I'm persistent, but this is small potatoes compared to buying an engine. I agree with Mike.

Mike: I NEVER give anyone what they are asking at the swapmeet . I'll go back to them 3 hours later and say, "Still got it, huh?" LOL.

I had a guy try to sell me a set of Craftsman wrenches for "$75 bucks, my cost". I had the Sears tool catalog with me. I said to him, "Why would I pay you 75 when this catalog for 2003 has them for 50?"

He argued with me and I said, "If it were me, I'd bring 'em back to Sears and make money on the difference. What a fool!". LOL.

You should have seen his eyes light up when I pulled out the Sears book. LOL
 
  #16  
Old 07-22-03, 08:12 AM
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Mike, thanks for the info on the storage of the van, I will get fuel stabilzer and do what you say. No place for a trickle charger. Should they just run it once a month with the air running.
I store my 3.3 Buick w fuel injection during the winter should that be the same deal.
I spoke with the person in question, he wants $1000 for the package and I suspect it will NOT sell on ebay. I was planning to go to Md and hear it run and look it over. I will not buy this on ebay, I just found it there.
I've bought and sold items on ebay and when purchasing a big ticket item I will always speak to the person, If the person doesn't answer emails or is evasive on the phone I let the item go. I've owned 4 busness*, a NYC product and I consider myself fairly street smart.
I have also spoken with Jasper and given them the rebuild number and they've told me they will warranty the engine.
I imagine if it doesn't sell I will take a ride and go look. Thanks for all the info. You guys are great.
Joe by the way I'm an old Poncho guy, 2 first cars, a 62 Catalina and a 65 Grand prix. Both 389s, black n black.
 
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Old 07-22-03, 08:22 AM
Joe_F
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Yup, I've gotten plenty of stuff "off the cuff" from Ebay by either pointing out fault in the seller's auction or waiting for it not to sell and then asking "What do you really want for it". Some go for it, some don't.

My thought: If it doesn't sell, it isn't worth what you think it is .

Those are some great old Ponchos. Would be worth a good buck if you still had them. Fine old machines .
 
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Old 07-22-03, 08:43 PM
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long term (six months)storage on a fuel injected car is basically keep the battery 'maintained', add stabilizer if you want peace of mind, the system is mostly sealed, except for the fuel tank, which should be full. the stabilizer might actually help as i've seen a bunch of GM injectors leak pretty good, it would keep the varnishing down a little. for the van, can you take the battery out and charge/maintain it yourself

i forgot i was talking to a 'fellow' new yorker, and street smarts are a good thing everywhere, especially e-bay. talking to the guy in person is a definite advantage.

also ask yourself, do you 'want' it, or do you 'need' it
 
  #19  
Old 07-23-03, 07:45 AM
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Mike thanks for the answer on storing the van and the car. I will take the battery out and keep it home charged. I store the vehicles up in Hartford.
What about running the ac, should it be not run for this time?
As far as the engine I want it, I can't accelerate going up a 6% grade/
 
  #20  
Old 07-23-03, 07:23 PM
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everybody has their opinions about a/c, "I" wouldn't worry so much about something as worn in as that old system, i can't see sitting for six months doing that much damage. it would probably get dry rotted hoses either way, running or not, as long as it isn't leaking, letting oil out and potentially moisture in, you should be ok, but then again, running it each week has kept it working this long...so who knows, there's probably no right answer.

good reason to upgrade though----"As far as the engine I want it, I can't accelerate going up a 6% grade"
 
  #21  
Old 07-24-03, 08:11 AM
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Mike, the ac system has been totally rebuilt last year, new compressor, reciever drier and a bunch of other new parts, hoses, etc. The only old parts are the condensor and fan clutch. I had it rebuilt in Mexico where parts are cheap and labor is cheaper, The compressor is a Nippendeso and the system is R12 and R12 runs 5 dollars per 12 ounces there. System was totally cleaned out and blows very cold. Great job and it cost me $440
Buicks system is all original and also blows very cold.

With the van I top out at 70 mph on a 6% grade, Out west the speed limits run 75 and cars run 80/85 mph as just keeping up with traffic. I can live with it but if I can run across a decent engine I would like to change it out. I do not concern myself with mpg.
 
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Old 07-24-03, 08:52 AM
Joe_F
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MPG not a concern?

Dump a 426 Hemi in it . It would be rated in gallons per minute, rather than miles per gallon .
 
  #23  
Old 07-24-03, 10:56 AM
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Yes Joe, mileage is not a concern, I drive it 6,000 miles a year and get 10/11 miles per gallon. If I go to eight mpg it really won't put a crimp in my lifestyle.
Back in my younger days I had a 442 with a 427/440 Chevy rat motor in it, Guy named Bill Jenkins out of York, Pa built it. Got about 6 miles per gallon, but 100+ octane gas was 27 cents a gallon.
I try to do whatever I can on my stuff myself, not because I can't afford to pay for it but because I like to be involved and most, and notice I said most, shops replace parts, throw parts at problems instead of diagnosing what's wrong.
One of the reasons I love this board is the moderators/participants think and try to diagnose whats wrong.
 
  #24  
Old 07-24-03, 11:58 AM
Joe_F
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Such is true .
 
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