Fan not working on Grand Voyager

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  #1  
Old 07-29-03, 04:09 AM
tejmar
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Fan not working on Grand Voyager

1992 Plymouth Grand Voyager
3.3L engine
Automatic
A/C
99,000 miles

Yesterday when I got home from a 2 hour highway drive I notice that the check guage lite as on and saw that the temp. was maxed out. I shut down for a short time and checked the coolant level and looked for leaks. Everything looked ok so I started it up again and the temp was ok for a while but started to climb. I turned the heater on max and the temp. leveled out. It was then that I noticed the fan wasn't running on the radiator. I shut off the heater and the temp. started to climb again.

Should I assue that the fan is bad or could it be something else?

If you think that something needs to be replaced, let me know which would be the easiest and cheapest to try first.

Thanks
 
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  #2  
Old 07-29-03, 06:07 AM
Joe_F
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Check the coolant temperature sensor. I believe it runs the fan and the gauge on this.

It's cheap and it will up your MPG a bit. I'd pitch it. Also make sure the fan itself works by bringing power to it and seeing it it runs or not. If it does, fan is OK. If not, wiring or switch problem.
 
  #3  
Old 07-29-03, 09:24 AM
jtackett
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Also, if you turn on your a/c the fan should come on. If it doesn't it's either not getting power (check the leads with the a/c on with a meter-should be 12 volts) or the fan itself is bad. I had to replace my mother-in-law's Skylark fan last weekend for the same problem. The fan was bad. I hooked it up directly to the battery with a couple of jumper wires & no spin. Most fans can be replaced without too much trouble if you have basic knowledge! Good Luck! Jeff
 
  #4  
Old 07-29-03, 09:32 AM
tejmar
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Joe:

Thanks for the reply. I'm assuming that when you day bring power to the fan you mean to run wires from the battery to the fan connector. If not, please describe your method.

I also assume that when you said pitch it, you meant the coolant temperature sensor. Do you think I should just replace it regardless of whether the fan works or not?

tejmar
 
  #5  
Old 07-29-03, 10:33 AM
Joe_F
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Yup. Replace the coolant sensor.

Yes, bring power from the battery to the fan. See if it spins. If it does, chances are the motor IS good. If not, the fan motor is wasted, time for a replacement.

If the motor spins, it's a switch or wiring problem.
 
  #6  
Old 07-29-03, 05:53 PM
tejmar
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Well I took out the fan and put power to it and it seemed to work fine. I put it back in and connected it then started up the car again. I let the car run for a while to let it heat up and it appeared that the temp. was holding steady, but the fan did not go on. I then put on the A/C and it didn't work. The compressor didn't turn on and the neither fan was running. I didn't have the A/C on yesterday when the overheating started and I know the A/C worked two days ago. In fact that has always been the best thing about this car. The A/C always cooled the car fast and I never had to have anything done to it.

Is this new development related the coolant sensing switch or does this mean there is another problem?

If it is also related to the switch, could you give me an idea where I would find it and describe what it looks like.

ramjet
 
  #7  
Old 07-29-03, 07:19 PM
Joe_F
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Check autolibrary.org below for the R&R instructions for the coolant sensor.

Inspect the connector at the same time for damage, and again, replace it. Cheap insurance and you might even pick up some MPGs.

These get lazy with age.
 
  #8  
Old 07-29-03, 08:50 PM
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tejmar---your coolant sensor and coolant sender are two different things, the temp guage works so you know the 'sender' is working, that is the one wire sensor in the front of the front cylinder head, right above the a/c compressor.

if the coolant sensor(for the computer) was bad, the check engine light would be on and the fan would be running all the time---that's it's default mode. this is the two wire sensor in the intake manifold right under the coil pack. if the check engine light is off, you can assume it's good.


let's see....a/c stopped working all of the sudden and now the fan isn't working, maybe two different gremlins happened at once or maybe more than a coincidence....maybe it's related!!

i don't like to throw parts at a car not knowing if it 'might' fix it (i work hard for my money) i'll give you a hint, i haven't replaced more than one sensor yet and i've been working in a dodge dealer for 15 years. let's see what you have.

we know the fan works, here's what i would do, with a cold engine, unplug the coolant sensor(under the coil pack) and listen very closely to the relays near the battery, one should click within two seconds(fan relay) if it does, you have a burn't fusible link, probably feeding both the fan and the a/c circuit. if nothing clicks on, then the relay 'control' feed is not there, which i believe comes from a fuse somewhere( i forget, a lot of things blend together for me) which eventually came from the ignition switch.

the fan (or any) relay has four wires, one to the load (fan), one is a ground from the computer(that turns it on), one is power from the fusible link(for the fan itself), and the fourth is the relay control circuit 'power' (computer grounds this to turn relay on). i know it sound confusing, but basically you need two 'powers' (12 volts) to the relay and one ground signal to turn on whatever any relay controls. i'll try to look in a book tomorrow and see which relay it is and which wires need to be 'hot'

when the check engine light comes on, from unplugging the coolant temp sensor, simply disconnect the battery to reset everything.


let us know where you get


my guess is a burn't link, and it burns for a reason, something drew too many amps. it could be the fan, try to spin it by hand, should be smooth and spin free.

or could be the relay, not making contact, that's why you need to check voltages with a test light or voltmeter.
 
  #9  
Old 07-30-03, 09:22 AM
tejmar
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What is involved in replacing a fusible link. This sounds like it is starting to become complicated. One of my co-workers said that it might just be a bad relay. Is it possible that one relay would control the fan and the A/C or that the A/c just won't work if the computer thinks that the radiator fan is inoperative?

tejmar
 
  #10  
Old 07-30-03, 10:12 AM
Joe_F
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A fusible link is a wire that is designed to melt so as to protect the rest of the wiring from damage.

Usually not that hard to replace.
 
  #11  
Old 07-30-03, 10:20 AM
Joe_F
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Don't know if you saw this, but it's from Autolibrary:

When diagnosing an inoperative cooling fan it may be necessary to use a diagnostic scan tool to monitor engine coolant temperature and the engine control computer.

Perform a visual inspection of the cooling fan. If the fan does not turn with ease, the fan motor is seized and needs to be replaced.
Check all the fuses and fusible links related to the cooling fan circuit.
Check the integrity of the electrical connections related to the cooling fan circuit.
Check the cooling fan motor.
Check the relays associated with the cooling fan circuit.
Using a scan tool, determine if the engine control computer is calling for the fan to activate.
Cooling Fan Motor

Disconnect the negative battery cable.
Disengage the cooling fan motor connector.
Identify and label the ground and the power terminals of the cooling fan connector using the wiring diagrams provided.
Using jumper leads with a fuse in series, apply battery voltage to the appropriate terminals of the cooling fan.
 
  #12  
Old 07-30-03, 04:52 PM
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Many Chrysler's have a fuse and a relay in the fuse box under the hood for fan motor. As best I remember, 1 circuit (with a fuse and relay, turns it on based on engine temp, and fuse/relay combo turn it on based on A/C demand, but if the fan won't come on, the A/C won't work.. I didn't read where you'd checked the fuses and relays in the main junction box under the hood..? If not, check all the fuses, and also swap the A/C compressor relay with the Radiator fan relay (SHOULD be the same..) and see what happens..
 
  #13  
Old 07-30-03, 09:38 PM
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today's update:

i could only find a 94 service manual--no help,

i found a 94 caravan on the lot--it has an underhood junction/fuse/relay box.

i then found a 93 caravan and it had NO underhood junction/fuse/relay box, so, i'm assuming yours is similiar to the 93.

there should be five black relays behind the battery and on the inner fender, the front two 'i think' are the a/c clutch and rad fan.
the fusible links are in plain sight, taped outside the wiring harness between the washer bottle and the fender, some gray, some orange.

the problem-your fan has two windings inside the motor, meaning, four wires go in and basically two motors inside controlling one fan blade, the winding you checked might have been the high speed and the low speed could be the shorted one.

the wiring diagram is confusing even to me, if you're not confident soldering large guage wires, this isn't a job for you.

according to the 94 book, there is a separate fuse feeding the a/c compressor and both of the fan speeds--no fusible links in that car though, so like i said, it isn't much help.

if you're still reading this and contemplating this repair, go to the library and look for the big thick mitchell manuals, their wiring diagrams are pretty good, and for a dime(at my library) you can photocopy the whole section you need. (then you'll see how confusing i meant)

look closely at the entire length of the fusible links, any scorch marks, any melted insulation, anything broken in half---means you found your problem. cut out the entire piece and solder a new fusible link in of the same exact color(very important) it has to be soldered to good clean copper.

but you still have the original problem---whatever caused the link to melt. a wire rubbed through anywhere in the harness, an a/c clutch that seized, either fan winding that shorted, even a bad relay could cause it. to fix that problem you MUST have a wiring diagram and examine every component on that burn't link's circuit for excessive amperage draw, or the link will melt right before your eyes(and it happens fast too)

not to focus so closely on fusible links, you could have a broken power feed splice in the harness somewhere, it does happen occasionaly and is usually caused by battery acid fumes right around the battery, that is why you need the wiring diagram in your hand and be checking voltages at the proper terminals in the relays.

check the obvious first, switch relays around, check all the fuses inside, then check the fuse links

this sure is a lot of words here, hopefully i made your decision easier to fix it yourself or not, seeing how much stuff you need to look for to fix it correctly the first time, like before the engine overheats and gets damaged.

ask more specific questions if you want, i'll try to help
 
  #14  
Old 07-31-03, 12:34 PM
tejmar
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Well it was a bad relay. Went out and bought a new one and everything is fine now. Thanks to everyone who submitted ideas.

tejmar
 
  #15  
Old 07-31-03, 02:27 PM
jtackett
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Thumbs up

Are these guys awesome or what!!!
 
  #16  
Old 07-31-03, 07:37 PM
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and another easy fix.

glad to hear it!
 
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