Need a drum/wl cyl replacement walkthru

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  #1  
Old 07-29-03, 04:39 PM
jmann06405
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Need a drum/wl cyl replacement walkthru

I have a 91 Dodge dynasty 3.3 liter, drum brakes in rear. I took it to a shop and they told me I needed new drums, wheel cylinders, bearing pack. And that the shoes and linings were ok. Problem is they wanted to charge me 500 bucks!
I picked up the parts yesterday for about $150 and with the help of an ASE friend in CT(Im in San Diego)and some research, got the basic procedure. I still have to get some jackstands. I have never done this procedure before.

If anyone would be kind enough to take me from A to Z on this one, I would be greatly appreciative. My main concern is not with the location of parts, removal/replacement, I seem to be pretty clear on that. My concern is blowing brake fluid everywhere or on me!

I'd love to have some qualified advice!

Jason Mann
 
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  #2  
Old 07-29-03, 07:30 PM
Joe_F
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I just did this with my friend on his 1991 Dodge Shadow. Same heap, different "body" for Chrysler.

1) The wheel cylinders sometimes freeze to the line. I usually hold the line with a vicegrip and spin the cylinder off the line.

2) Throw out all the bearings back there, replace them with new ones. Don't forget the seals too.

3) Take both drums off at once, but leave one side intact. If you need to know how something goes, walk around to the other side and walah!

4) Have a helper help you bleed all four brake bleeders. Spray the fronts with PB blaster, they're going to be rotted. LOL.

5) Change the drums, both wheel cylinders, all shoes, and new hardware. Get the holddown kits and combination kits for both sides.

Use good quality AMERICAN or CANADIAN made Raybestos, Wagner or Bendix made replacement parts. The offshore stuff is junk out of the box.

See autolibrary.org in my signature file below for more R&R help and pictures.
 
  #3  
Old 07-29-03, 10:04 PM
Nascar24Fan
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sorry, but i need to say this....a heap??? .... i think the person is looking for help, not an opinion of what anyone thinks of the vehicle!
 
  #4  
Old 07-29-03, 10:39 PM
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step by step:

--remove tire
--remove grease cap
--remove cotter pin
--loosen nut and remove
--remove drum(might have to back off the shoe adjuster if it is hard to get off, and make sure e-brake is off)
--return new drums to the store and have them resurface your old drums, then have them measure them.
--remove all grease and thoroughly inspect the bearings, there should be no pitting and not be blue or brown, should have a smooth round clear surface on each roller--one bad one means it's a bad bearing
--pack the bearing full of new 'quality' grease, it has to get between the rollers and cage, you will get messy 'packing' it into there
--remove the various springs and clips (one side at a time)and remove the shoes, you should replace them if you're replacing/resurfacing the drums
--back off the self adjuster screw all the way, until it's fully seated
--with the shoes off, get a 2X4 or a short broom stick or anything that you can hold the brake pedal down with against the seat, this keeps the master cylinder from losing prime
--try to loosen the steel line, if it breaks loose, but twists the line--STOP
--take out the two bolts and unwind the wheel cylinder off the line
--if the line was seized to the nut, now is the time to heat it slightly, and slowly work it back and forth until it's completely loose(a propane torch works good)
--clean the backing plate
--reinstall the new cylinder
--carefully tighten the line
--reinstall the shoes, using the other side as a guide(pay close attention to everything)
--put the greased bearings into the spotless drum
--install a new seal
--grease the lip on the new seal
--install the drum onto the spotless spindle
--install the outer bearing and tighten the nut finger tight, it's tight enough with the weight of an adjustable wrench parallel to the ground, no pressure on the wrench!! do not overtighten!!
--put on the castle/lock nut and turn backward to line up a hole
--install new cotter pin
--reinstall the tire
--tighten up the self adjuster screw through the backing plate until the tire only turns one revolution with a good spin with your hand, the shoes need to drag a little.
--remove the prop from the brake pedal
--get someone to help you bleed the cylinders
--top off the master cylinder
--push the pedal down, open and close the bleeder screw, THEN release the pedal
--do this until you get a steady stream of fluid from the bleeder, with no air pops.
--do it a couple more times to be sure. pedal down, open--close, then lift off pedal.
--you're done, top off the fluid, it helps to have a book handy too, start early in the day so you can get to a parts store before it closes.


let us know how it goes
 
  #5  
Old 07-29-03, 10:52 PM
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everything's a heap, unless it has a bowtie on the grill or a 6.6 stamped on the shaker hood

how did you not know that??
this is the doityourselfandgetafreebiasedopinion.com website


you'd never catch me in either(cars)!!

that's my free opinion
 
  #6  
Old 07-30-03, 03:46 AM
Joe_F
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Nascar: So, then provide some useful information! .

The original poster got two detailed replies from Mike and myself with detailed instructions and cautions about doing the job.

Ummm, Mike, depends on what 6.6 callout is on the scoop there .

Nascar Fan: You need to lighten up, chief. .

Most of these "better" Chryslers are K-car type spinoffs. The K-car, while it served its purpose is hardly stellar in any regard nor the bastion of quality.

Again, the original poster has the information he needs to do the job.

Nascar: Perhaps you'd like to step up to the plate here and join Davo, Knuckles and myself as moderators here. We can use the help----we do a damn good job helping people day in and day out here on our own spare time (that means it's free). We give and receive alot of good help here. Along with all of the regular posters here, we have a fine forum with good information and a few laughs .
 

Last edited by Joe_F; 07-30-03 at 06:01 AM.
  #7  
Old 07-30-03, 09:28 AM
jmann06405
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Thanks!

You guys are mint! Not only did I get some good NEW info and some confirmation of stuff I was told, I got total entertainment! This is better than Leno AND Letterman combined!
I'm going to work 'The Heap' this saturday, and I'll let you know how it goes!
Thanks!
JM
 
  #8  
Old 07-30-03, 05:14 PM
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Mike- Great detail on that!! I could picture everything as I was reading it!! The only thing I can add, is when pumping the pedal, to make sure the pedal pumper uses nice easy strokes, and not stomping it like their killing a snake!! Last couple of classes I've been to they're recommending 2/3-3/4 stroke of the brake pedal versus an "all the way to the floor" stroke..(seems on SOME cars it can roll o-rings inside the master cylinder..)This goes with what you said about not "loosing prime" in the master cylinder..
Last but not least, bleed the right rear then the left read (can't hurt to then do the right front, and left front to get some of that old fluid out..)

Again- great detail!!!!
 
  #9  
Old 07-30-03, 05:45 PM
Joe_F
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MSA:

DEFINITELY bleed all four . The pedal will be soggy otherwise.

We four wheel bled my friend's Shadow and the pedal hasn't been that rock hard since 1991 .
 
  #10  
Old 07-30-03, 05:54 PM
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Joe- This doesn't belong to this thread, but thought I'd ask anyways..Have you and/or the other moderators thought about doing a "tip of the day" type post for the normal driver and DIY'er?

Like using the parking brake a couple times a week if it's not all ready a habit. WIll help keep everything moving properly and also help keep rear shoes properly adjusted ect..?
 
  #11  
Old 07-30-03, 06:04 PM
darrell McCoy
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MSargent: Good suggestion, specially about parking brake. I hit mine a couple times a week on truck and car simply to keep them in working order. If you were to take a poll, bet there are not 3 out of ten ever even touch the park brake. Hmmm? 3 out of 10, maybe I am cutting to much slack.
 
  #12  
Old 07-30-03, 06:08 PM
Joe_F
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Wink

Not a bad idea, wish I had the time to compile it .

I'd rather spend the time answering the posts and replying back, frankly.

We could use a fourth moderator here though
 
  #13  
Old 07-30-03, 06:15 PM
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I agree with the time problem!! There's not enough time in the day, and I'm too old to handle more hours anyways.. LOL!

As I said..just a thought..
 
  #14  
Old 07-30-03, 07:59 PM
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msargent (and all) i did forget to mention to start at the right rear, then to bleed the left rear. however i purposely omitted bleeding the fronts, i've seen plenty of calipers get replaced because of the them having broken bleeder screws.

i also did forget to mention not to push so hard on the pedal (or all the way) while bleeding. how could i ever forget this---in my apprentice days, when my one friend/coworker would help me bleed, every once in a while on a random pump, he would two foot it, while grabbing the bottom of the steering wheel with both hands---the fluid sprayed like 15 feet sometimes or hit the inner fender and sprayed all over my arm. trust me--he got his paybacks when it was my turn to pump!

thanks again for proofreading and pointing those things out, i do learn from this board too!
 
  #15  
Old 07-31-03, 03:31 AM
Joe_F
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Wink

Your friend just wanted to make sure the customer left with a hard pedal. LOL.
 
  #16  
Old 07-31-03, 03:37 AM
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The reason it always comes to mind about how to pump a peddle is I work with a guy that when he pumps a peddle for me, it sounds like he's doing a mexican hat dance in the car..LOL!

And I do agree with you about being EXTRA careful on those front bleeder screws!!
 
  #17  
Old 07-31-03, 03:42 AM
Joe_F
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Talking

Soak, soak, soak, soak, soak, soak.

Repeat the above . They will usually come loose. They did on my friend's 1991 Shadow. 160k on that thing (still going too. LOL).

I get a call one Sunday afternoon, "What are you up to now???" That usually means "I've started the job without you, but now think it's a good idea you join me for moral support". LOL.

Since I'm in charge of parts procurement on our projects, I made sure to buy EVERYTHING new. The brake pedal is great now .
 
  #18  
Old 08-01-03, 03:19 PM
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Wink Hard pedals

I just finished a complete brake job on my 1993 Caravan (160,457 miles). I replace the master cylinder, calipers, wheel cylinders, shoes, pads and all harware. Got my parts from Rock Auto.

Instead of bleeding the system by the old pedal pump routine, I purchased a $40 vacuum tool. What a great tool that is!! I can't say enough! I replaced ALL the brake fluid in my system (yes, it does go bad by adsorbing moisture) and ended up with a rock solid pedal. I have never ended up with such a firm brake pedal after a brake job.

Plus, the vac tool keeps the old brake fluid from getting all over the place.

Just thought I would contribute. Since we have four vehiles in the family, the vac tool will get a workout.

Tony
 
  #19  
Old 08-08-03, 03:59 PM
jmann06405
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Thank you all!

Well, last weekend I parked the 'heap', jacked that mutha up on two jackstands, and went to work. It was a real 'learn as you go' opportunity. Took off the tire, tried to get the drum off, the thing wouldn't move. I pulled, brake spooned, cursed the thing's ancestors...no dice. The I remembered the little shoe adjuster, and went to work on that. Popped right off.
Then, I couldn't figure out why the new drum had 5 holes and the old one had 5 BOLTS. Didn't seem to be any way to get them out. With the help of an ASE friend in CT, I was advised to just hammer them out.
I repacked the bearings, got the drum back on, and my chick did the petal work on the bleed, then I topped of the master cylinder.

I was just about to do wheel #2 when some lady in my condo comes up to me and says "You know you can;t do that here, right?" Now keep in mind I was bent over this drum, trying to figure out how the heck to get it off at the time. I just looked at her for about 5 seconds before replying "Nope, no one told me that."
She yammered something else before walking away, and I left her with a chipper 'Thanks!"
I drove REEEEEAAAL slow the first couple miles to make sure brake parts weren't going to fly all over the place.

Life is good!

Thanks to all!

I probably saved a cool $300 and learned a whole bunch of cool junk too!

Put that 3 bills in your karma banks, PEOPLE!
 
  #20  
Old 08-08-03, 04:33 PM
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This has been a quite entertaining post.

NASCAR24FAN...... Bud, dont waste your breath or your time typing in your frustrations. There are just some folks who cant be nice and think they know it all. This forum should be about helping each other, but some folks have let certain self inflicted responsibilities go to their cyber bloated heads and think a thumbs up or an "I agree" to bolster their posted numbers means they helped someone. AND, man all that elbow breaking back patting is killin me.. LOL..... Oh well it takes all kind to make the world go round.

Lets all try to have fun here and help our fellow man no matter what kind of "heap" they are working on. It is not constructive criticism to call someones vehicle junk, its just plain rude. There are alot of very experienced helpful individuals here that sometimes even ask questions themselves. Lets not make anyone mad with rude comments and the such. CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?!?!?!?!?!?
My .02
Billy
 
  #21  
Old 08-08-03, 04:47 PM
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I agree. As far as "heaps" go I think they are all a piece of junk when they are not running right...... Thats one thing I haven't seen yet is a vehicle that doesn't break down. Except for a "Bentley" I think its called. From what I gather it has a lifetime warranty or something. It should for the price. $350 grand or so.
 
  #22  
Old 08-08-03, 05:24 PM
Joe_F
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Billy:

Posting #s have nothing for me in gaining anything, but they are a barometer to those that think we don't do a good thing here.

Let's face it, this board has some of the most complex things most people can ever fix. A car is the second largest investment a person will make. Some of the other forums are cake walks compared to the work we do here.

I say that because it seems that guys like Knuckles aren't appreciated and the forum has frustrated them into leaving. This forum is worse for the wear as a result. Perhaps you'd like to step up to the plate and fill in?

Bottom line: If something's junk, it's junk. It's that person's opinion. Take it, leave it, or take it with $2.00 and get on the bus and give yourself a ride. All the same to me, frankly.

We do a disservice by telling someone to put big bucks in a car that's not worth it or is too dangerous to be on the road.

If I agree with a post for instance, I am saying that I would have probably posted the same thing. It is nice to read a post as a beginning DIY person and see two professionals agree on what should be done.

With that constructive criticism in mind, I ask you to walk in the moderator's shoes for a year or two .
 
  #23  
Old 08-08-03, 05:43 PM
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First of all, I dont want to get into this discussion with YOU AGAIN. I have said my peace TWICE as have others. Tact and professionalism is what is needed here. If you dont like it dont do it. As far as me "stepping up" to be a moderator here, I dont think I want to be associated with that. I thought about it when I first became a member, but after things like this.... I dont think so. As far as Knuckles, I as well as most if not all of the regular members here, we dont have a clue, and I frankly dont have an opinion, about the situation. I dont really care. The posts I have witnessed by Knuckles have been good solid information to folks and im sure his presence and expertise will be a lost asset to this forum. However your post about his resignation was VERY unprofessional and if the Administrators dont kick you out for such gross misconduct I will be very surprised. That was, and is not the way to correct a situation.
ENOUGH SAID.... My previous posting was not directed toward you to get a rise from you, just posting my OPINION, AGAIN!!!
 
  #24  
Old 08-08-03, 05:55 PM
Joe_F
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Billy:

As I have said, put your money where your mouth is.

You can't formulate an opinion on being a moderator unless you are one. Walk a mile in someone's shoes before casting your .02.

Got a problem with the way we moderate? Change it---become a moderator and show us how it's done. I think we do a damn good job here.

If you don't like what your elected officials do, you tell them with the power of the vote. If you don't like what's done here, you take the bull by the horns and change it. I sure have. You?

With that being said, if the forum admins kick me out, their loss, not mine. No sweat off of me champ, trust me. They've lost 25 years of experience by Knuckles resigning, hell, what's another 15?

I don't see many people banging down the door to replace him, do you?

Knuckles is a fine gentleman and a good moderator and he was roasted. I'm standing up for the guy as he, Davo and myself have made this forum what it is today, and I'm proud of that.

How would YOU like it if someone changed your posts when they didn't violate any rules and were constructive?

There's nothing to argue about until you've been on this side of the fence for awhile Billy.

Let us know if you're up to the challenge.
 
  #25  
Old 08-08-03, 06:32 PM
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OK... first off, who are you to tell me what I can and cant form an opinion on? Do you know ME??? I dont think so. You have no idea what I have done in my life. I have been in the automotive industry all of my life and try to offer support and help here as often as I can, and unlike you I dont post unless I know what I am talking about. This forum and every other forum I subscribe to are not designed to boost some overzealous persons ego. I have never seen such crass comments and total disregard for an individuals feelings as I have seen here. So when you tell me to put my money where my mouth is, I take that as a personal jab. You, my friend, are treading on thin ice. Step back and think about that for a sec and dont post anymore remarks like that. You have no idea what professionalism and tact is. Go back to school and get yourself a degree in that so you can brag about SOMETHING ELSE!!!!!
 
  #26  
Old 08-08-03, 07:57 PM
Joe_F
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Billy:

I'm done arguing with this moot point. The poster fixed his vehicle with the help provided by Mike, me and others.

Again, if you have the knowledge, information, and desire to help, step up to the plate and help out as a moderator. I don't understand what your quandary is.

You complain about the way we handle things here but then you won't step up to the plate and make the change. I'm looking for the logic in that.

The challenge is yours if you have what it takes. Until then, you don't have a clue what it's like to be on the moderator side, so please don't cast slurs my way until you've worn these shoes.

Again, my pay for this is the same as yours, so what's your point? . I do it for the sheer enjoyment of helping someone, learning AND having a few laughs.

I've been around cars since I was five. I've corrected GM, Ford and Chrysler on their parts catalogs for 10years, logging 1000 comment cards from them. AC Delco calls ME for research information because I know what the GM books have left out and what the people in Detroit have long forgotten. I'm sure most folks here have bragging rights too, great!

I've already got two degrees, but I brag about neither. What's your point? Didn't realize it was a crime to be educated with an MBA and know your way around the hood .

The original poster got the point and joshing a long time ago, so can you follow suit?

I gave Stevo the same challenge to "change" things and become a moderator, he's yet to accept that challenge--- I offer you the same.

We can sit here and argue 'till we are both blue in the face, or we can "shake hands" like gentlemen and respectfully disagree and move on with life.

I vote for the latter, the choice is yours.
 

Last edited by Joe_F; 08-08-03 at 08:23 PM.
  #27  
Old 08-08-03, 08:57 PM
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Im not arguing. I am simply stating fact. You are crass. You constantly rub your "knowledge and expertise" in everyone heres face. Dont patronize me. I dont have to become a moderator to "change" things. If myself and the other posters here who have asked you to change have not made any effect then what would lead me to believe that becoming a moderator is going to help. I dont think anything anyone can say here will change your attitude. You are one of those people who thinks he knows everything and is never wrong. When in fact you cant even formulate a logical explanation for your behavior and cant actually answer someones question. If you know so much why do you insist on referring everyone who asks a question to Auto Library? Geez man, you could at least copy and paste some instructions once in awhile. I can go on and on, but the point is there is no point, because as long as you are allowed to post here then you will never change your attitude or behavior.

ENOUGH SAID..... CLOSE THIS THREAD!!!
 
  #28  
Old 08-08-03, 09:31 PM
Joe_F
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Let's see, on the last three posts you made, you referred them to where? Autolibrary. Hmm, why is that? Tell us where you got that information (Hint: Knuckles and myself).

Again, I will not rewrite or repeat myself. If you choose to rewrite/repost the Chilton manual, your balliwick, not mine. I've got plenty to do here, so I'll leave that to you.

Part of Doing it Yourself is HELPING yourself. That is done with the links I provide. I don't think clicking on a link is very hard for most folks here to do and most do it without any problems. Sorry that you don't appreciate the time and effort that went into it or can do better than it. Please furnish some better FREE information if you have it and share it with the class.

Again, I offered to extend both a challenge to you as well as the olive branch to disagree amicably and move on, but it appears you need to look into the mirror to see who is truly crass.

Post closed, so long as the VB software works to close it .
 
  #29  
Old 08-08-03, 09:48 PM
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nope--still open


billy, it's called nyc attitude, go to the jersey shore anyday and you will see that multiplied by 1000, there's no changing it so don't try, use your time more constructively by 'helping' people here like you have before.


ps. i'm from there too!! we're not all bad
 
  #30  
Old 08-09-03, 04:31 AM
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Mike... Thanks for that. I agree whole heartedly. My wife and her family are from NY (not the city) and they arent like that (DUH) and my manager is from the Jersey shore. Hes not like that. (Although my previous employer was a Brooklyn [email protected]#HOLE) Oh well. I have said my peace. It seems some cant let it go. Anyway, lets all just do what we do best.
Billy
 
  #31  
Old 08-09-03, 06:58 AM
Joe_F
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Thumbs up

I've been done arguing two posts ago and offered out the olive branch to just let it go . The post won't close, I've tried it .

Mike: You can't tar all New Yorkers with the same brush. Ya don't know me and I'm an atypical New Yorker who has lived here all my life.

I've been down the Jersey shore a million times, don't get me started with some of the folks down there . They are the same folks that come to NYC for their jobs, careers and to socialize though .

I remember helping two guys with a stuck Jeep one year and getting them going. I said to my friend, "Let's stop and help those dudes out". I think they thought we were going to rob them having NY plates. I found the guy's problem in two minutes and we offered them a lift to the parts store to get the needed part. Later that night in the bar, they thanked us and bought us a drink.

See, we're not all bad, you're right.

If you want some REAL characters, just go to the Englishtown swapmeet .

I agree, let's all move on. We're all good in our own way.
 
  #32  
Old 08-09-03, 07:03 PM
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joe, you might have been done arguing two posts ago, but it didn't stop you from commenting/posting further.


let's see if just ONCE, you'll let someone else get the last word.....


the attitude i was talking about at the shore was FROM the new yorkers, you can pick them out of a crowd a mile away!!


billy, i'm from brooklyn, but i'm not taking any offense, i know exactly what you mean.


the end?
 
  #33  
Old 08-09-03, 07:06 PM
Joe_F
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Everyone keeps posting

I'll close it from work. Closing posts works fine there, but I can't do it here.

New Yorkers think Jersey people are strange and you guys think we have an attitude. Ah, neighbors .

LOL.
 
  #34  
Old 08-09-03, 07:09 PM
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joe, you might have been done arguing two posts ago, but it didn't stop you from commenting/posting further.


let's see if just ONCE, you'll let someone else get the last word.....






didn't think so



16,516 and counting
 
  #35  
Old 08-09-03, 10:20 PM
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Unhappy HuH!

Anybody check my post about "hard pedals" somewhere in this POS thread? I tried to be informative and all I saw beyond that was PAP!

Tony
 
  #36  
Old 08-10-03, 02:49 PM
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Thumbs up

Mike....... No offense intended. You seem like a very intellectual and all around nice guy.

I think this is extremely funny. Did anyone notice that I NEVER mentioned anyones name in my first post??? (or any subsequent post for that matter) Seems someone might just KNOW HUH!!!ROFL
 
  #37  
Old 08-10-03, 03:03 PM
Joe_F
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Hey Mike:

Looks like others keep posting too and won't leave this one alone, guess we should all practice what we preach.

I'll close this one tomorrow A.M.
 
  #38  
Old 08-10-03, 03:22 PM
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Talking

LOL
 
  #39  
Old 08-10-03, 08:33 PM
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got to win the argument somehow i guess



billy--i did notice it
 
  #40  
Old 08-11-03, 05:49 AM
Joe_F
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It was fairly obvious who you were pointing fingers at, .

But it's a moot point. The poster fixed his vehicle and he's all set---until the next breakdown .

Honestly, he did a good job with the help given here. Everyone did a nice job.

The next job is to get status quo and get Knuckles back into the forum with an apology and clearing up about what has happened.

The ball lies in the forum admins court on that one.

This post is closed.
 
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