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Stalling in gear and after acceleration


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10-19-03, 11:54 AM   #1  
Dpdblues
Stalling in gear and after acceleration

I have an 84 buick regal v6 231. I had the plugs and wires replaced. The car in drive began to drive like it was in second. The car would stall when i let of the accelerator.When I would start the car up in the morning, the car would idle just fine, when I would put in gear it would stay ideled, but when I would drive a bit it would stall again, then it would began to stall everytime i put in gear or accelerated after.

Also, I gapped my spark plugs to a 0.60, I just noticed it should be a 0.80, would that be the cause?


Last edited by Dpdblues; 10-19-03 at 12:10 PM.
 
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10-19-03, 02:13 PM   #2  
No the problem sounds just like a torque converter clutch that wont disengauge. Try to unplug the 4 wire connector on the tranny and redrive. If the problem goes away than you most likely need a tcc solenoid. Oh you should gap the plugs to spec regardless

 
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10-19-03, 02:29 PM   #3  
I second that.

 
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10-19-03, 03:02 PM   #4  
Dpdblues
Where would that be?

Where would that be at, would I need to get under the car to get to it?

 
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10-19-03, 03:11 PM   #5  
It is on the side of the tranny near the pan from under the car

 
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10-19-03, 11:03 PM   #6  
mike from nj
first---did this problem happen before or after the plugs and wires were replaced? it's very easy to mix up a wire or two and have this problem.

second, it depends on the trans---if it's a 2004r (4 speed) i'm pretty sure lock-up is hydraulically impossible until second gear occurs, unless the valve is physically frozen in the valve body, the lock-up solenoid has no affect until second gear, what would happen with a bad solenoid, first gear would be normal, but second would shift hard and then you'd have no power(like this thing ever had power), if it has a connector, it's a 4 wire one and it's on the driver's side of the case.

if it's a 3 speed, i have no idea, i'm not knowledgable on those.

maybe 'dpdblues' can describe what symbols appears on the shift indicator in the dash or even the trans pan shape.

 
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10-20-03, 04:08 AM   #7  
Joe_F
The majority of the 231s were 3 speed THM200's.

A stuck governor could cause a chuggle like that, it's been known to happen. It surely sounds tranny related. Does it feel like a manual transmission car when you slow down and forget to push in the clutch (that type of chuggle/feeling)?

 
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10-20-03, 06:58 AM   #8  
Dpdblues
Stalling

I checked the carb yesterday, and on the passenger side of the carb where the automatic choke (I believe thats it) is, in between that and the carb is a lever device(might be called the fast idle cam??) when ever I would rack the throttle, this device would fall forward and stall out the car. If held, the engine would stay running.

 
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10-20-03, 07:21 AM   #9  
I think u are describing the fast idle cam.
Is there a solenoid on the carb with a wire going to it? with a plunger that is supposed to keep the vehicle idling , and then retract upon shutting off the igntion, this closes the throttle blades a little more to prevent dieseling. I wonder if this solenoid is not functioning properly.
Doubtful it is a trans issue. Never heard of a 200r4 causing this.

 
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10-20-03, 07:28 AM   #10  
I think u are describing the fast idle cam.
Is there a solenoid on the carb with a wire going to it? with a plunger that is supposed to keep the vehicle idling , and then retract upon shutting off the igntion, this closes the throttle blades a little more to prevent dieseling. I wonder if this solenoid is not functioning properly.
Doubtful it is a trans issue. Never heard of a 200r4 causing this.

 
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10-20-03, 09:02 AM   #11  
Dpdblues
Solinoid

There is a round black device that has notches on the top portion of it, it has what to me would be described as a plug in where a wire plugs in to it.Would this control the fast idle cam?

 
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10-20-03, 09:19 AM   #12  
Joe_F
You might be describing an idle stepper motor or an idle stop solenoid (although most 1983 carbed GM's wouldn't have that, at least the US emission ones....)

Is your vehicle a three speed (PRND21) or a 4 speed o/drive (PRND(with circle)D21 ?

 
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10-20-03, 09:23 AM   #13  
Dpdblues
3 speed

I believe its a three speed, there is no d w/ a circle

 
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10-20-03, 12:46 PM   #14  
The round black thing is the choke thermostat.
On the other side of the carb, is the throttle linkage.
There might be a solenoid there to hold the throttle when idling, and upon shutting off the ignition, will retract, to prevent dieseling.
Although, Joe reminds me of a idle speed control motor, which would have 4 or 6 wires going to it, instead of one. at the end of the actuator, would have a star shaped screw that does the actual pushing of the throttle.
Can u find that?

 
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10-20-03, 06:05 PM   #15  
Dpdblues
I think I found the problem..

The device that I am talking about is on the passenger side of the carb, and is held in place by two screws, a one wire adapter attaches to it, and on the inside of this device is a coil spring. I adjusted it and the car ran fine for a while, then the fast Idle cam begin to start falling forward again. I believe this device is gone bad, could someone please tell me how exactly this device is supposed to operate and what the correct name of it is?

 
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10-20-03, 09:35 PM   #16  
mike from nj
see the above post, it's your choke thermostat

as it heats up---it opens your choke, as it cools---it closes your choke.

did you try turning the base idle up yet?


are you sure no vacuum lines got broken or knocked off during the 'tune-up'?

is the timing set?

did the timing chain jump?

 
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10-21-03, 07:21 AM   #17  
Joe_F
Yes, it's the choke stat. It could be bad, but make sure you have power going to it. Sometimes the oil pressure switch is linked in on those 231s too.

Bring your carburetor tag # with you (starts with 170) when you get a replacement part.

 
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10-21-03, 08:14 AM   #18  
Dpdblues
Thanks

I will do that today and see if that is what it is.Just curious though, if this did go bad, would that cause the fast idle cam to fall forward and stall out the engine?

 
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10-21-03, 09:04 AM   #19  
I don't think the choke is bad. As the choke heats up, it opens the choke blade, and also allows the fast idle cam to rotate off the fast idle screw. This is normal operation.
So it stays running on fast idle, such as when the choke is closed, but fails to stay running after the choke warms up and it comes off fast idle.
On the other side of the carb is the throttle lingage. Forget about the choke, is there an electronic device to control the throttle as it returns to idle?

 
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10-21-03, 12:47 PM   #20  
Dpdblues
A solution has been found

Ok, I found what was causing the fast Idle cam to fall and stall out the car. The rear vacum attached to the vacum diaphram, when attached was drawing in the plunger buckingspring causing a device that would hold the fast idle cam in place to drop down allowing the fast idle cam to fall forward, i unattatched the vacum line which then would keep the plunger bucking spring in place and leave the device that was supporting the fast idle cam in place...I drove it on the freeway and back, no stalls, even attempted several restarts, so far so good. Now since that was the cause, was the plunger bad, and also, will this hurt the car in any way. Its a "BEATER", to just go to work and back.

 
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10-21-03, 01:02 PM   #21  
Joe_F
If you mean the back choke pulloff, replace it. Not much money and will help fuel economy a bit, as well as "performance" (what little can be expected from a 115 HP 231. LOL)

 
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10-21-03, 01:10 PM   #22  
Dpdblues
Thanks so much

I want to thank all of you who gave advice to me for the car. All was very helpful.

 
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10-21-03, 09:48 PM   #23  
mike from nj
yeah---and it's a good thing you didn't replace the trans already.

 
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10-22-03, 02:12 PM   #24  
Dpdblues
Should I?

If I was to change it, what could/should I change it to?

 
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10-22-03, 04:45 PM   #25  
Joe_F
Why change a perfectly good trans?

You won't benefit much by putting a 2004R in there (the overdrive version of what you have), and a rebuild will cost more than this beater car .

Just drive it till it drops .

 
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10-22-03, 05:13 PM   #26  
This has been some interesting reading....

Tying up a fast idle cam to keep an engine running......

You might want to run some mechanics wire through the firewall to operate the choke too......

 
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10-23-03, 06:32 AM   #27  
Dpdblues
So it begins

Theres always one.........

 
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10-23-03, 07:34 AM   #28  
No, desi is right. keeping the carb on fast idle to keep it form stalling is not a good fix. your're masking the problem. There is sure to be some indesireable side effects of this.
It should be able to come off fast idle and stay running.

 
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