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More 98 Caravan problsms


jfulcer's Avatar
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11-19-03, 09:16 PM   #41  
jfulcer
Ok, here's where we stand:

I saw the DRB today (thanks Billy), and it certainly did say "Is the mileage on this vehicle between 108,888 and 108988" but it didn't say if that was in kilometers or miles. Is there a place to see for sure?

After checking the original specs on the car, the dealer indicated the dash used to have KPH as primary. So I <i>know</i> that was replaced. But if they replaced it and futzed with the miles, aren't they required (by law?) to place a sticker on the driver's inside door?

I am speaking with the used car manager that purchased my van tommorrow to see who did the replacement and when it was replaced. I also want to see if they had a DRB printout from that time, or some other documented proof it was changed properly. I'm still convinced someone entered the miles off by 10k miles. On accident? I dunno but the sale value of the van is more if they 'dropped' 10,000 miles from the odometer accidentally.

I saw the used engine they are putting in, it looks good. But when they placed it on the dolly behind the van it dented (partially crushed?) the end of the oil filter. Obviously this would be replaced before the engine replacement was finished but should I be concerned about it damaging the engine this way?

Finally, I am struggling with somewhat of a moral dilemna. Chrysler told me to go in to talk with the owner of the dealership to see if he can't knock a little off because of all the trouble I've been having. I've already gone to the Manager of Service and pulled the "because I have a relative that works there" discount request (I actually do) so he knocked $200 off the price (to the $2400 I told you guys about). Should I stop there, or would you all think it's worth it to travel a little higher up the food chain?

You guys will be glad to be rid of me when this is all done!

 
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mike from nj's Avatar
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11-19-03, 10:18 PM   #42  
mike from nj
ok, now go back to that screen on the DRB, where it's asking you if the mileage is correct, and hit the "NO" button, the next screen lets you set whatever mileage you want, from 1 to 999,999 miles

then check the mileage again, it will be whatever you just set it at!!

how's that for a sham! that mileage is approximated by the pcm and is never accurate, that's why the next screen lets you set it.

i don't remember exactly, but when i've ordered dash circuit boards and bcms, both parts usually require the mileage programmed into them at the factory only, no other way to set the official mileage. some years/some cars have the mileage stored in the bcm, some have it stored in the dash circuit board(these things blur together for me)

there is no mileage stored in the pcm, this i know.

if the car is running at the correct speed on the MPH scale, then it's programmed for miles.
if it was running in kph, it would be way off on the mph scale.
which units are on the outer scale, mph or kph?

i've seen engines go bad in 8000 miles, and with a little soap and a steam cleaner, i can make the external appearance look shiny too, don't go by that!

pursue this and get a remanufactured for free. you paid for the extended warranty, you deserve a new engine.

the only fly in the ointment: i remember a message sent to our dealer about a year ago, and it read that any car purchased in canada had no warranty in the usa, there were a lot of people buying them there, and bringing them home here. there was an emissions issue or something else that i can't rememeber right now as to why they were doing this.

if the dealer didn't say that yet, or cust. service didn't tell you that, maybe they relaxed those rules.

i still would be fighting for my free engine

 
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11-20-03, 04:07 AM   #43  
Mike is exactly correct that the mileage has to be documented and set by the mfg when a replacement dash cluster is ordered. I did this many many time when I worked at Chrysler.
Billy

 
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11-20-03, 06:46 AM   #44  
jfulcer
This is a third party warranty - not the dealership's warranty, so it doesn't matter about what Chrysler was warranting it for.

What you are both telling me is that the mileage they get from the DRB <i>can</i> be changed. How do I know what location the DRB is getting the miles from? The dealer said it could not be changed, that it was 'golden'. If this is the case, my out is to insist that they use the dash mileage, even if it requires me going in and sitting there for 8 hours trying to get it to come back on.

What is the difference between the PCM and BCM? BCM is Body Control Module as far as I know.

thanks guys!

 
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11-20-03, 08:45 AM   #45  
BCM is Body Control Module as you suspected. It controls such things as your climate controls... A/C and heat, radio, Airbags, Security systems, etc...
Billy

 
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11-20-03, 12:08 PM   #46  
jfulcer
This from Chrylser:

DRB scans the PCM for miles (and is able to write it)
Dash gets miles from BCM and is non-volatile and can only be changed by authorized facilities.

Warranty company thought it was the other way around, so the warranty company is looking into it, should have an answer for me in an hour.

If warranty company was wrong (hahaha) then it should be a covered repair.

I wish there were a fingers crossed smiley.

 
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11-21-03, 12:11 AM   #47  
mike from nj
well, we're waiting!!! (ala ted knight from "caddyshack")


and authorized facilities means even the dealer can't change that, that's why that mileage is 'golden'

 
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11-21-03, 02:35 PM   #48  
jfulcer
Ok,

The warranty company seems to have grudgingly agreed with me about the scan tool. The actual miles when I went to the dealership and banged on the dash for a little while was 99945, just under my 100k warranty.

The problem is the tech that tore the engine out told me (showed me) there was some buildup on the oil intake screen and the warranty company would most likely blame me for lack of oil changes and deny the warranty. They may just cover it, but I am not sure. Is it possible that the change of the PCV valve caused matter to fall into the block and make it to the screen? It was pretty hard to get out and had some gunk on it also (and in the hose).

I can't prove all my oil changes. I can't even prove more than 2 in the past 12 months as I normally do it myself. Any thoughts as to how to combat the probable denial?

 
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11-21-03, 03:02 PM   #49  
Don't know what to say about the impending denial of coverage,but the tech doen't want it warranted because he makes more money on customer pay work.Warranty hours are generally just over half of regular flat rate hours.Example warranty engine r+r 8 hours flate rate engine r+r 15 hours.These are not actual times but just an example.I'm betting he is trying to get you to pay so he makes more money himself.The pcv valve had nothing to do with it.If you bought the van there tell them maybe the lack of maintenance occured prior to you purchasing it.Now the ball is back in their court.Bet they didn't pull the pan and inspect the screen when they took it on trade or from the auction.

 
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11-21-03, 08:25 PM   #50  
jfulcer
Yeah, but I only bought the van with 16k miles on it, and have put on another 83k. The majority of the driving was mine, even considering the fact the van was in a rental fleet for those 16k miles. I may follow your advice though, maybe they would pay for a portion of it...

Interesting though, the tech that tore it apart was the one that said he thought it wouldn't be covered but the service manager was being PC and said "well, it's really up to the warranty company to allow or deny the claim".

They never called me back today so it should be inspected on Monday. Another weekend without the van. Ugh.

 
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11-22-03, 05:48 AM   #51  
I've dealt with insurance and warranty adjusters and they almost always ask for the technicians opinion as to the cause of failure and if the customer may be at fault to some degree.Aftermarket warranty companies usually only let used engines be installed.If it's Chrysler extended warranty shoot for a reman engine.When I'm asked about the cause of failure I tend to side with the customer but I'm hourly not flatrate.Hope this gets solved soon this post is getting longgggggggggggggg.lol

 
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11-22-03, 11:47 PM   #52  
mike from nj
too bad you didn't have a chrysler extended warranty, no hassles and ONLY a remanufactured complete engine, never a used(abused) engine!

if the pickup is completely clogged (solid) then it probably wouldn't be covered. if it's partially clogged, it should be warranty.


whatever happens now, it would be good advice to change your oil every 3000 miles from now on, then something like this would never have happened.

83,000 miles divided by 4 years=20,000 miles a year, and 2 oil changes a year= 10,000 miles on the oil.

who's to blame here?

dam chrysler!

i've never seen a clogged pickup with regular maintenance, yet.

(remove a valve cover if you want to see some big sludge buildup)

 
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11-23-03, 06:00 PM   #53  
jfulcer
I know, I know - bad me. It really only was partially clogged, IMHO. If it were all caked up, I could undestand that and could take my knocks. But I did change the oil.

We'll see what the company says tommorrow when they've looked at the engine.

Originally posted by mike from nj
too bad you didn't have a chrysler extended warranty, no hassles and ONLY a remanufactured complete engine, never a used(abused) engine!

if the pickup is completely clogged (solid) then it probably wouldn't be covered. if it's partially clogged, it should be warranty.


whatever happens now, it would be good advice to change your oil every 3000 miles from now on, then something like this would never have happened.

83,000 miles divided by 4 years=20,000 miles a year, and 2 oil changes a year= 10,000 miles on the oil.

who's to blame here?

dam chrysler!

i've never seen a clogged pickup with regular maintenance, yet.

(remove a valve cover if you want to see some big sludge buildup)

 
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11-26-03, 09:33 PM   #54  
jfulcer
Good news and bad news. Warranty company denied the claim. There is a specific exclusion in the warranty for 'and problems arising from a drop or lack of oil pressure for any reason'. Oh well it was worth a try.

Good news is the warranty company is covering the repair of the dash problem.

Thanks for all your help with these problems. I learned a lot in the past few weeks working with this.

 
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11-27-03, 02:37 PM   #55  
KurtDixon
So the oil pump craps out because of faulty manufacturing causing a drop in oil pressure and then they close the door on you? That kinda sucks, but at least you don't have to pay for the dash repair

 
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11-27-03, 09:05 PM   #56  
mike from nj
i'd have to say the oil pump is the most reliable thing in the engine, i've only seen ONE seize up. a worn one will still produce oil pressure, just less and the oil light flickering at idle is a good sign of it, raise the engine off idle--oil pressure comes back up.

the real problems occur when the oil pickup screen clogs, the oil light comes on and stays on, no matter what rpm the engine is, and the customer keeps on driving, hoping to make it home or to a gas station to check the oil. yup, it's still full, the dipstick says so, so it just must be a 'light' problem. wrong, even if they make it to the shop, or have it towed after driving for a few minutes, the damage is permanent. i've seen engine bearings squeak louder than the loudest belts you've ever heard, not long after that--it's seized.

that clause in the aftermarket warranty, was probably written in by their lawyers, after the 200th seized engine from a clogged oil pickup, and their profits started dropping ever so slightly. now their butts are covered, ever so slightly more.

 
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11-27-03, 09:58 PM   #57  
KurtDixon
I see So long as people change the oil at reccomended intervals (not blaming this person though) then there shouldn't be any oil delivery problems. The screen can't clog when clean oil is in there and since you said the oil pump almost never fails then there is not much else to go wrong unless the person never/rarely changes oil, then they open up a whole new can of worms lol

 
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