changing oil filter without changing the oil

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Old 11-12-03, 02:40 AM
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With the "what I'm doing has worked for thirty years" mentality. I don't know how we have ever made any progress. Just because what you have works, and I know it does ( I used to be a die hard dino fan) doesn't mean that it's the only way or the best way.

Use whatever the hell you wanna use, I'm gonna use synthetic.

I thought that's what forums were for, to tell others about your personal experience. I'd rather hear personal experience than, "I know this guy who has this car....."

Also, about the fleet vehicles, if you are putting big rigs inside the fleet, you are incorrect. Unless it's Billy bob's trucking, most use synthetic. They also don't change unless they "need" to. They have oil sampling done. Just like we do in the gas fields. We have compressors that are running 24/7 365 day s a year with loads on them all the time. We use synthetic, we sample our oil, we get three times the life and way better protection out of synthetic oil. Far superior.

If you really want to read something that may change your mind about synthetic lubes here you go. Amsoil and Mobil1 are both tested here.

Happy reading.

Last edited by bigpoppax2; 11-12-03 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 11-12-03, 07:50 PM
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Ok use what you want. Just so long as others can make their own opinion about what oil THEY like. One of the first responces to the orginal question went somewhat like this "these guys are going to tell you to use regular oil and change at 3000miles. DON'T listen to them, only use synthetic and change every 12000 or more." Now that IS wrong, tell the person to use synthetic AND regular (try regular a couple changes, try synthetic a couple. I know you can't swip swap that fast, but there has to be some way to try out both types.) then let the person draw their own conclusions. That's all.
Old 11-12-03, 09:39 PM
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Mike: Thanks for a good reply. I do not think Mercedes or Porsche are "superior", but they do do their homework. Even if their vehicles are over priced and over rated in my opinion. Their pistons go up and down just like everyone elses.

Joe, Kurt, billy68ss, & yamahawolverine, just incase you missed it Mike said "synthetic is a far better oil" he uses it for superior heat protection but it also has superior cold start protection.

This discussion keeps getting distorted. I have never said you cannot get good protection or long engine life from regular oil. The issue is can you get better protection and long engine life by using synthetic with extended drain intervals. The answer is yes unless you choose not to believe Mercedes, Porsche, & General Motors engineers know what they are doing. You guys are worried about the filter getting plugged up and the contaminates in the oil. As Mobil said you should use a high quality filter. I think that should be a no brainer. Who in their right mind would use an el-cheapo filter and expect to extend their drain interval? Not to mention that you do not get as many contaminates with synthetic.

Come on people, do you really thing Mercedes, Porsche, & GM would risk probably millions of dollars in possible warranty claims if they had not done their homework??? I don't think so.

Joe: I just changed oil on a 2003 chevy van and the oil monitor went off at 9,500 miles, so no they do not all go off at 3,000 miles. Maybe that "blows your theory" watcha think?? Your drivers driving conditions are why it went off at 3,000.

Kurt: Why do you quote me and then mis-state what I said??? If you will read what I said you can see clearly that your quote is wrong. And then you go off in a direction that has nothing to do with what we are talking about????

For you who are arguing against extended drain intervals with synthetic. How many high mileage engines have you disasembled and inspected that have well documented synthetic oil changes since the car was new? My guess is your answer is 0.

bigpoppax2: Thanks for your comments and support on my position.
Old 11-12-03, 09:49 PM
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Synthetic oil and change interval

I scanned through all the comments about synthetic oil and change interval --- maybe I missed it, but I did not see any real EXAMPLE of results (proof) to the claims or counter-claims --- except they've seen worn-out engines from undocumented treatment (abuse) or oil type and change interval.

Congrats to the few who pointed out that there is more to the oil change interval than miles driven.

My example (longevity) involved several factors (good and bad):

1- much hiway driving and constant use --- not much sit-idle days or cold-start / short trips (except 2 1/2 yr. period in different job).
2- care: coddling when cold-started; avoiding lugging; and seldom "dogging" engine except a little to get up to the 70+ MPH of majority traffic on these Interstates.
3- was quality foreign eng w/less blow-by --- not Detroit junk --- if you love your country, improve it (it has) by constructive criticism.
4- not-so-big engine (1.9L water boxer) in an '85 VW van --- had to work harder (wind resistance)
5- detriment of usually heavy-loaded with business machine parts, tools, supplies and spare/loaner machines.
6- delayed maintenance: plugs, plug wires and O2 sensor went over-due; injectors began to leak --- after new injectors, realized (belatedly) that fuel presure regulator was part of problem.
7- detrimental incident --- terribly diluted oil w/fuel before leaking injectors discovered (used so little oil it was not checked often) --- gasoline in oil might have been large factor in eventual demise.

The engine gave me EXCELLENT service up until a year ago at 296,000 miles (17 yrs old); where upon it suddenly developed a knock and before I could get out of between Jersey walls in long construction area, it was too loud to drive. I've been told that that engine has been known to crack a piston at such mileage.

Now, to "throw the fat into the fire" if I haven't already bored or turned you off:

I started using half and half, synthetics with 10W-40 --- and I set out to change oil and filter at around 10K to 15K miles (time of year/seasons factored in) --- when I purchased van in '92 w/89K miles (engine was in good shape).

Later, demands of my two jobs got in way of my good intentions, and by the time I'd get to worrying that oil had gotten too black the oil often went to over 20K miles from last change (remember, with quality engines, not so much blow-by to make it gooey black)

Maybe my example does not prove everything --- yet, think, if I had used 100% synthetic. never went over 12K mile change and had not had fuel-diluted oil --- who knows.

But old habits (beliefs) linger long past their time.

When I grew up in the '50s, oil was changed every 1000 miles --- Kendall brand boasted that their oil was so good it could go 2000 miles (2 fingers not a peace sign). And at 10K miles (more often for dirt roads) chasis got lubed and brakes adjusted --- no auto-adjust brakes, except I think Studebaker (was ahead of times).

How many of you die-hard 3000 mile oil changers are lubing your chasis by those old guidlines --- at 296,000 miles my VW van ball joints were never lubed and only one had to be replaced.

Now-a-days: better metals, better machining; better fuel, cleaner burning F/I engines; better roads to drive; better lubricants; etc.

I assume you die-hards ARE flossing your teeth EVERY day.

Sorry this is long,
Old 11-12-03, 10:04 PM
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Regerding the syn vs dion oil debate...both sides have their points to make. As far as I can boils down to this:

It has not been proven to me that using synthetic oil is doing any harm at all to the engine. Many claims have been made that it is beneficial to the engine to use it. It does have better and more stable properties than regular dino oil. This indicates that it is better. Does that mean we should all switch? No. Will we hurt anything if we do switch? No. If we can afford it and it gives us peace of mind, then is there any reason not to switch? No.

If you can rack up a million miles on a car, the rest of it will be falling apart and in ruins before then, and you won't want it anyway.

As far as extended drain intervals...tests seem to show that synthetic oil retains it's intended properties longer than conventional oil. Does that mean we can keep it in longer? Not necessarily. It depends on other factors as well, like how well- sealed is the system the oil is in, what kind of condition the engine is in, what kind of service it sees. Engines that are under heavy loads and/or have a fair amount of wear will allow more combustion gasses into the crankcase to mix with the oil faster than engines that have easy jobs and are in close tolerances. Syn oil may last 3000 miles in one before needing changing due to contaminates, while it may be good for 10000 miles in another engine. A compressor could probably use the same syn oil for much longer than any dino oil, provided it was a fairly well sealed pump. There are no combustion gasses to contend with. Beyond that, I don't have the technical expertise in the field to comment any further.

To the original poster: Simply unscrew the filter and fill the new filter with new oil and reinstall. Crank it up for a minute, shut it back off and check the level. Then add oil if needed. This is how to do it, regardless of whether anyone thinks it is a good idea or not. It is your decision.
Old 11-12-03, 10:23 PM
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"Do not let these guys convince you that you need to change your oil every 3,000 miles. If you use full synthetic you can easily and safely go 10,000 miles between changes. And you will have much better engine protection than going 3,000 miles with regular oil.

They will come on here and tell you that this is not true. DO NOT believe them. With all due respect they do not know what they are talking about and they are sure they are right. "

Those are the exact words you said.
How do you know if they are right or not? More importantly, how do you know YOU are right? You do not know for sure. You can jabber on forever but you still don't know you are right and you cannot tell other people when they are right or wrong, how ridiculous!
I got from this (whether you meant this or not) that if you are using synthetic, you can always go AT LEAST 10,000 miles between intervals. Then you tell the person "DO NOT believe them" now how arrogant is that comment. You are SO SURE you are right, you go around telling people NOT TO believe other people who are experienced with cars and engines!
It doesn't matter between oils, syn VS reg, you are blatently telling the person asking the question to disregard everyone else's opinions/views that do not agree with your own. Guess what, as far as I am concerned, there is no right answer with the syn VS reg debate. You lose ALL of your credibility when you say "DO NOT believe them" Anything you said after that, to me, was "blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda..."
That is what I got from your first response anyhow.
Old 11-13-03, 02:26 AM
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""The issue is can you get better protection and long engine life by using synthetic with extended drain intervals. "

How can you get extended drain intervals? My advice is for you to open your eyes and re-read these posts. If I take your oil cap off and take a wiz in your engine, will it be ok b/c you are using synthetic? Apparently you think so. I've said it 3 times now. It's not the oil itself that is breaking down causing us to change the oil. It is byproducts of combustion, and many many other contaminants which are previously listed that will cause deterioration of the oil, and oxidization, and premature internal wear or damage to your engine.

Some properties of engine oil.
Clean- keep the internals clean
Cushion- Provides a cushioning effect between engine components and other moving parts
Lubricates- I think you know what this means
Seals- It helps seal the engine.

Now lets contaminate it and just leave it in there because it's synthetic.
Old 11-13-03, 06:17 AM
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Cheese & Geo: Good comments.

Kurt & Yamaha: Did you guys read all of this lengthy thread or only what you wanted to see??????????

Have a great day and most of all enjoy your dino oil.
Old 11-13-03, 12:49 PM
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Blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda...

I asked a couple simple questions
How do you know if they are right or not? More importantly, how do you know YOU are right?
Choose to answer them if you want but at least say you don't have an answer if you don't.
Old 11-13-03, 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by car nut
Cheese & Geo: Good comments.

Kurt & Yamaha: Did you guys read all of this lengthy thread or only what you wanted to see??????????

Have a great day and most of all enjoy your dino oil.
Apparently you didn't. I'm actually annoyed with you enough to just let this thread die at this point. Enjoy your sludge.
Old 11-13-03, 10:37 PM
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For the record...I'm not promoting syn oil OR dino. Either/or...does it really matter that much? They both work. The key is changing it when it needs to be changed. Noone can just give an off-the-cuff, all-inclusive limit to the mileage you can put on one oil change. It all depends on the things mentioned previously. Each vehicle is different, each driver is different. These are huge wild cards that can throw all speculation out the window.
Old 11-15-03, 06:58 PM
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Carnut........ What is your idea of a "high quality oil filter"? Please be specific since I dont know what I am talking about. Heaven forbid I be using the wrong thing.
Old 11-16-03, 03:37 AM
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Well enough about the oil I believe the original question was answered.So this post is closed.Thanks for all replys,Davo.
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