fiat

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  #1  
Old 12-01-03, 04:58 AM
nadia
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Post fiat

hi, i would like to ask a question about windows in old fiat cars, 1975 model, the machine that moves the window up and down, is it mechanical or hydrolic? i opened the door from inside (removed the door leather) and saw a small thing attached to the metal door where the handel that moves the glass is attached and a long pipe between that thing and the glass? i want to know how it works, is that arm a mechanical arm that lifts the glass or is it hollow and containes fluid that makes a pressure, cause the metal thing or gears (what ever) attached to the handel that does the movment is too small to exert all this power and lefts the heavy glass up, there must be some kind of pressure other than manual, or at least i think so, any idea?
 
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  #2  
Old 12-01-03, 02:01 PM
KurtDixon
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It is probably all gears and all manual (I am guessing)
Lifting the glass with that little lever is made possible with gears (like in a transmission) have you noticed you have to turn the crank MANY times in order for the window to go all the way up? Turn the crank a full turn and notice how little the window moves up. Also with a car jack, you move a lever many feet, up and down, up and down and move the car a couple inches each cycle. It is called gear reduction I think. The crank in the window is attached to a worm gear which turns another gear pushes the window up. This is also why the window cannot be pushed down without the crank, the worm gear can only drive another gear, something cannot drive a worm gear. Pictures would REALLY help here.

But I hope I didn't confuse you more (I think I have lol)
 
  #3  
Old 12-02-03, 02:30 AM
nadia
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u haven't confused me a bit, i wasn't confused in the first place. i know about the gear ratio and so, gear reduction ratio for minimizing movments and so on. i studied all that. what made me post this messege is that the thing i described(I didn't take a clear look at it cause i did not dismantle it) any way the thing is too small and the 2 gears one for pulling down the window and the other for pulling up, r too small to exert such force to move a heavy glass like this, if u had seen it you'd know my point of view.
may be u didn't read my first messege well cause i described something that looks like a hydrolic tube that's what got me wondring in the first place, i wonder, is there any professional mechanics in this community, i'm sure they can help.
 
  #4  
Old 12-02-03, 04:22 AM
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I think Kurt gave you a VERY good description of the operation of the window mechanism. It is possible that the part you are describing is in fact a support and has no mechanical function. The gears do not have to be large the y just have to have the proper pitch (Teeth per inch) and angle to sufficiently support the ratio so that the window is easy to lift and lower. On most cars there is only 1 set of gears that the window uses for both operations. I have had many doors apart, but no Fiat however, and Kurt described the operation to a T.
Hope this is helpful to ya,
Billy
 
  #5  
Old 12-02-03, 12:41 PM
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What kind of Fiat is it???? I've owned old 850 and 124 Spiders and both had cables on the window regulators to lift and lower the windows.
 
  #6  
Old 12-02-03, 10:53 PM
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That's what I was thinking when the "tube" was mentioned...either a cable or tape.
 
  #7  
Old 12-03-03, 07:53 AM
nadia
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What ever kurt dixon said won't make me like his attitude, I'm not here to get laughed at or get into quarrels with any one or any group, I'm here to get my stuff fixed. Any way, I think it is only logical that an object's mass determines the work it exerts, a one millimeter diameter aluminum gear will not exert the same work a 1 meter in diameter iron gear will, it's not just a matter of gear ratio. As I recall from college (and that was ages ago and I'm in a completely different field of work now) force F is the product of mass m multiplied by linear acceleration G, F= m x G and work of an object is the product of force F multiplied by distance a, W=F x a. So, by law, mass of an object affects its work. As for the car, it was very long force arm (a) with nearly no mass, so small something that I didn't see (gears transmit force but I DID NOT SEE IT, the door is hollow and the whole mechanism is mounted inside the void of the door, between the two sides of the metal, so it is completely covered with the door metal and it's so small and I haven't taken a second shot at dismantling the door yet). Any way I'll make another try and take another look, may be I'll figure how it can be fixed, mechanical or hydraulic. All your efforts are appreciated.
 
  #8  
Old 12-03-03, 10:03 AM
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Nadia.... I do not believe Kurts response can in any way be construed as attitude. He simply asked you a question and gave his opinion of your questions. We all try to help others here based on the words you type in this little window. Any answers or questions will be based on what information you give. Like Kurt, I have never been inside the door of a Fiat (sorry if I misunderstood that Kurt). Most American cars use gears and reduction to make this function come about. Alot of cars today as well as most European and Asian cars utilize cables to do this. I have never seen a hydraulic setup on a window regulator but that doesnt mean that it doesnt exist. Your engineering theories are great and 100% correct what you have to understand is the scale of things. No one is going to put a 1 meter iron gear in a car door solely to operate a window. You must scale these things down to make them practical in various circumstances.
We hope that you receive the information you need here. We would like to be able to help you. You never really said that you actually had a problem. If you do then please describe the problem and I am ccertain someone here will be able to assist you.
Thank you,
Billy
 
  #9  
Old 12-03-03, 04:12 PM
KurtDixon
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Please point out where you saw this "attitude"?
Also, read your first post again. When I read that, with the many spelling errors and vague information, I didn't think you were very well educated (which I was wrong, but read your post again and put yourself in my shoes.) so I made my post very mickey mouse. Sorry if I offended you by talking about things you know everything about (catch the sarcasm?) I took my own time to type that explaination and here you insult me for it? And finally, HOW in the hell am I supposed to know how much you know about things? Oh, then you discount my assumtion that we are talking about a metal arm, IF YOU KNEW THE ARM/HOSE WAS HYDROLIC, WHY EVEN ASK THE QUESTION, omg You should see what some people on here describe. Just because it looks like a hydrolic hose, does not make it so. You just expect me to know what you know? When you give us a vague, error filled post ( sorry such statements are not allowed.Davo)

BTW Billy, I have not opened a Fiat door, but I have seen inside a couple American doors (which are obviously different than Fiats because they don't have something that looks like a hydrolic hose lol)
 

Last edited by davo; 12-06-03 at 09:24 AM.
  #10  
Old 12-04-03, 07:46 PM
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Does FIAT really mean Fix It Again Tony?
 
  #11  
Old 12-04-03, 09:07 PM
KurtDixon
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Nothing against Fiat owners but my dad had one in the 1960s and absolutely HATED it. It was the worst car he ever owned. The 1962, beat to hell pontiac was miles ahead. Perhaps they have come a long way? Is Fiat still in buisness?
 
  #12  
Old 12-05-03, 05:19 AM
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The 124 was OK, but bad for warping the flywheel.
The 850 was probably the worst vehicle I've ever owned. It would break a motor mount just for pressing the gas pedal hard. And its not like we're talking about a bunch of horsepower. When the mount broke the shift linkage would bind and you couldn't shift. I finally wound up putting an ax handle propping up the engine under the exhaust manifold.
Still it was fun to drive when it was drivable.
 
  #13  
Old 12-05-03, 06:48 PM
mike from nj
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dirty dan:
it sounds like there's more than one 'macguyver' in this world
 
  #14  
Old 12-08-03, 04:58 AM
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LOL!!
Really it was just an average teenager with limited funds.
 
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