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water in engine


chickwithwrench's Avatar
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01-06-04, 02:10 PM   #1  
chickwithwrench
water in engine

Here is my story!!!

We have an 82 Fifth avenue - and a major blizzard on Sat - it got ditched and the engine compartment totally blew in with snow.

WE have cleaned the snow out, and had it started and running a few times, enough to melt the snow...

HOWEVER - now it is dead - it runs awhile and then dies and we cant start it again

whats it doing?

it runs and then dies - when we try starting it, it sorta spits water and gas out of the carb and makes hissing sounds - we tried the pedal to the floor, half down etc (as if it was flooded) and still does the same

you can tell the engine wants to catch but it wont...

Is there a product or a trick I can use to get the water out - it is obvious that as it melted water either got into the carb, the engine or someplace...

we already put gasline antifreeze in the gas, plugged it in, charged the battery, trying to get it to a warm place to warm up (its -26 outside and was -46 two days ago)

what are we missing here?


TIA


Last edited by twelvepole; 01-10-04 at 04:53 PM.
 
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01-06-04, 02:21 PM   #2  
Check for water inside the distributer cap that would be my first step if you find water just replace the cap instead of trying to dry it out just don't mess up the firing order do 1 wire at a time.However it sounds like you will have to replace the plugs after all the failed attempts at starting the car.

 
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01-06-04, 07:14 PM   #3  
mike from nj
if this car has the external ignition control box on the firewall, i would dry that out completely, especially the transistor mounted on that big heat sink.

i can remember it like it was yesterday, i had a car with one of these mounted on the fender, and as i hosed the engine down, i saw sparks and then it stalled. i had to dry that module down completely before it would start again.

if you don't have one of these, like davo said, you have water on the distributor cap or even the coil too. compressed air is the best way to dry it out.

i can't see getting water into the carb from melting snow under the hood----the air filter housing would have to be completely missing, is it?

 
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01-06-04, 08:46 PM   #4  
chickwithwrench:

I regularly wash my engines with a pressure washer and don't even bother trying to start it without removing the distributor cap and drying it out.


GregH.........HVAC/R Tech

 
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01-07-04, 12:04 AM   #5  
chickwithwrench
one more dumb question...

and no I am not blonde...LMAO

k - we had this thing running - it ran about 10-15 minutes and then died...

when I try starting it, it fires stuff out the carb and if I keep trying, it eventually backfires out the tailpipe but will not catch and run again

this has now happened about 3 times (three dif start tries, three dif days)

I too, figured it was the distributor and when it dawns tomorrow (and hopefully warms up) I will pop that off and try drying it...

but if it was the plugs and the cap, would it then not start at all? Or is it because the snow is still melting?

Oh, and I noticed that the hose going from the fender to the air cleaner was packed with snow (Breather?) it must have sucked some snow in when it was running?

Is ANYTHING I am saying make sense?

PS: Greg, I notice you are in MB - so am I

 
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01-07-04, 06:06 AM   #6  
Manitoba winters are a joy aren't they?

Remove all the snow and just clean everything up as suggested and it should go.

If the vehicle is outdoors use a bit of methyl hydrate on the dist cap , wipe it up and after there is no residue left dry it up with a hair drier.
Be carefull of fire after you use methyl hydrate.


GregH.........HVAC/R Tech

 
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01-10-04, 03:32 PM   #7  
chickwithwrench
Day 3

okay - I am a moron surrounded by morons

WE got the car running today - it started first try, new battery - after running about 10 minutes it began to sputter and die and eventually died. (there is half a tank of gas)

Tried to restart it - it wouldnt go

took the distributor cap off - as you all told me, it was wet - so I dried it...

here is the moron part...

Everyone said - take the cap off, take the cap off - at no point did ANYONE I spoke to tell me NOT to take the plug wires off the cap - so being the helpful person I am, I took the wires off (without marking them or anything) and stuck them back on the cap once it was dry.

Tried starting the car - we have flame coming out of the carb now - I call my ex, he says you did WHAT?? I am sorry, I cant help you, you need a mechanic now, because its like playing lotto649 - you screwed up the firing order...

Yet he was one of hte ones that said take the cap off and dry it...call me a dumb woman (cant you tell I am frusterated?) But if you say take the cap off, and it is hard to get at with all the wires in the way, it is assumed (unless told otherwise) that the wires come off, no problem and go back on, no problem...

So NOW I need to find out, how do I determine the firing order to get this fixed without blowing anything else?

and back to my original question...why does this thing sputter and die when it starts warming up??

PS: ALL the snow is now melted from under the hood - SOMETHING is still wet or getting wet or there is water somewhere (I am assuming)

PPS: I keep saying WE but it is really just me - trying to fix my only vehicle so that I can get off this god forsaken yard...lmao

THANK YOU for ANY HELP regarding this...

if it helps, its a 318 - no clue on tranny, i have only owned it for 2 mnths.

 
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01-10-04, 04:23 PM   #8  
The only thing you can do now to get the plug wires straight is to remove the number 1 spark plug and rotate the engine until the piston comes to the top. Stick your finger in the hole (just to close it off, not too far) while someone gently bumps the engine over with the starter. when you feel pressure and air escaping from around your finger you know you are getting close. Stop and look at the harmonic balancer (the big pulley on the bottom of the engine where the belt is) you should see a line on the wide part of the balancer near the timing mark. There should be a tab sticking out from the front of the engine... this is the timing tab. Rotate the engine by hand (a big wrench) until the mark lines up with "0". Take the cap back off and see where the rotor is pointing. Most likely if you are on the correct stroke it will be pointing somewhere towards the front of the car. Once you have determined where the rotor is pointing place the cap back on and the number 1 spark plug in that location. The firing order should be cast into the intake on the engine. I dont know this one off hand. I believe the rotation is clockwise for this engine so start with the number 1 plug wire and re-wire the cap following the firing order. This should get you where you need to be. If by chance you get this done and it still wants to backfire, and not run, go back to the beginning and start over and see where the rotor is pointing. If it is still pointing in the same place then you should rotate the engine one more time 360 degrees. The rotor will be pointing exactly oposite from where it was before you rotated. This will get you where you want to be. Rewire the cap according to the previous instructions. This just means the distributor was 180 degrees out.
Hope this is helpful to ya,
Billy

 
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01-10-04, 04:32 PM   #9  
OK, now you've really gone a done it girl. Let's see if we can help you out.
The firing order is 18436572 clockwise
I believe #1 is the one directly in the front of the cap facing the front of the car. It's 2 before the hold down screw. Start there with #1 and put them in that firing order going clockwise. You can use Billy's method to verify #1 location.

 
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01-10-04, 04:35 PM   #10  
Desi.... you sure about that firing order on a Chrysler? I dont have that one memorized, but i know 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 is a GM firing order.... I didnt know Chrysler used it too.
Billy

 
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01-10-04, 04:59 PM   #11  
chickwithwrench
you all are laughing, arent you...LMAO

this is what I have figured out ( or rather how I understand it)

fireing sequence - 18436572

engine plug locations
8 7
6 5
4 3
2 1
____(Rad) evens on the passenger side, and odds on the drivers side

now for the cap - this is the confusing part for me now
[ 12
[ 8 3
[ 7 4
[ 65

(the lines ([) showing where the engine is)

HOWEVER looking at MY cap - it is looks the same except there is a CENTER hole
in other words - 7 holes in a circle with an 8th in the center of the distributor cap...so where do I start with my numbering sequence? ...(THe cap is NOT numbered where the holes are)

i have been doing net searches for 2 hrs now on this...WAAAHHH

thanks again

 
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01-10-04, 05:02 PM   #12  
chickwithwrench
oops...I screwed that up

it should be
18
2 4
7 3
56

but as I said my cap is set up with 7 on the outside and one in the middle - where do I start my numbering sequence

 
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01-10-04, 05:04 PM   #13  
There are 8 holes in the circle... and the 1 in the center is for the coil wire.
Billy

 
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01-10-04, 05:05 PM   #14  
chickwithwrench
coil wire????

OMG - what have I missed??

what is a coil wire?

 
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01-10-04, 05:09 PM   #15  
LOL...... Sorry... Not laughing at ya, just laughing with ya.

Without the coil you aint getting this beast to start. There is another wire that does not go to a spark plug it goes to your coil. It is probably mounted on the inner fender or the firewall. It looks like a little bean can with a nipple sticking out of the top just like the distributor cap, and some wires on either side of that terminal.
Plug the wire from there to the center of the cap and you will be alright.
Billy

 
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01-10-04, 05:12 PM   #16  
chickwithwrench
okay - that sounds easy...

BUT

where do I start my clockwise count...looking at the car, from the front, do I start it at the back (closest to the dash) the left side, right side, engine side...please say you follow me?? cause I am getting more confused by the sec...BTW - did my engine diagram make sense?? did I figure that out right?


BTW - going to nominate you for saint hood if we get through this together - and YES I LEARNED MY LESSON!!! LMAO

 
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01-10-04, 05:15 PM   #17  
My manual shows Desi501's order is correct.

18436572
The plug order is # 1 is drivers side front with 3, 5 & 7 on the same side.
Pass side is 2, 4, 6 and 8

If the dist was set up properly before all this # 1 should be facing the front.
The last dist cap I put in had #1 marked on it.

If you put the plug wire from # 1 cylinder ( drivers side, front one) on the terminal facing the front of the vehicle then put the wire from cyl # 8 next in a cw direction from 1 then cyl #4 and so on.


GregH.........HVAC/R Tech

 
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01-10-04, 05:16 PM   #18  
You are on the right track, but like I said before since you dont know where number 1 is supposed to be you will have to find Top Dead Center with the spark plug and harmonic balancer.
Billy

 
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01-10-04, 05:17 PM   #19  
chickwithwrench
thanks greg...

THAT i understood

now, I am going to run outside and see what I can see...LMAO

OH GAWD...man...I feel like a woman!!! ROFL

 
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01-10-04, 05:37 PM   #20  
chickwithwrench
I ROCK!!!!!!!

doing happy happy dance


I DID IT

i hooked up the plugs and the cap and the COIL WIRE

and the car is now RUNNING

I FREAKING ROCK!!!!!

heehee

sorry, after a WEEK of this crap, I am celebrating...

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

for your patience men...I am sure you can understand...

I FRIGGING DID IT!!!!!

 
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01-10-04, 05:41 PM   #21  
^5's all around..... Glad you got it fixed.
Billy

 
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01-11-04, 04:04 AM   #22  
Hahahaha
That's the most excitement I've seen after success since the Dolphins went undefeated............

Looks like you were pretty handy with a keyboard though. I never saw anybody type out a distributer cap before.....lol

 
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01-11-04, 10:18 AM   #23  
chickwithwrench
Well, Desi

Let me tell you a story LOL

THe distributor cap thing was a fairly easy fix (compared to what I ended up doing and having to figure out) My other half is a cook - NOT a mechanic - yet gets very upset when I send my stuff out to get fixed by people that know what they are doing. He thinks he should get first dibs - but I have learned the hard way with a $300 repair bill on my dryer for example - that letting him fix things ends up costing more money...kwim?

Frankly, he flatly refused to take the darn thing off - did not see the logic in it AND it was cramped against the dash of the car under the cleaner, and well, he said "it was too hard".

So I got mad, ripped off the cords, took the cap into the house, blow dryed it dry, checked it for cracks and corosion (surprised I thought of that?) and took it back out - it was only THEN that he mentioned that they need to be in the right order...well, call me dumb, but I didnt believe him LMAO - this was the same man who drove to work 3 miles with a totally flat tire thumping away (destroying the new tire) and when I asked why he didnt stop if he heard anything he goes "I thought it was the motor" and I went ballist on him.

Me and my ex used to have alot of old cars - i even tried to rebuild a 76 Cobra II, 4 years ago - until a dif ex told me the motor was fried (it wasnt - he had taken off a few things so it wouldnt run INCLUDING the plugs and I couldnt leave with my hotrod - the new owner told me it works awesome)

I have since learned to change my own oil & filter, starters, alternators, batteries, brakes, tires, even a transmission filter, I even learned how to plug a tire, and now this - this to me is major - being able to change my plugs, cap, etc? To know the firing order of a 318 engine? MOST guys I called for that info said they had no clue or had to ask a friend of theirs...(I wrote it down on my board so now I can proudly offer that information out)

I think it AMAZING - its one thing to be able to drive your vehicle and tell by even the slightest noise that sometime is not right - totally dif to know how to fix it.

You guys have no idea who it felt for me to wallow through the information and figure out the firing order, etc - it was frusterating and yet, with your patience I GOT IT RIGHT!!! and added one more notch in my belt.

I have met guys here in Steinbach that dont even know how to boost their own cars, never mind where the dipstick is.

To me, cars are the "mystery machine" the domain where not alot of women dont dare go - for me - a car is something to be respected and taken car of - and the only way we can really do that is by learning more about them -

reading that part back is funny, because I have a 96 grand voyageur that I know NOTHING about, and I have owned it for 1 1/2 yrs and the 82 New Yorker, I have had for 2 months and know more about - something about older cars, they are easier to work with. LMAO

And Desi, thanks for noticing about the typing cap thing...I have to see things sometimes to understand them - never touched a pc until 7 yrs ago, and now, well, I can build one...so ya, between chat and forums like this, I have learned alot.

Oh and one more thing - I also like learning stuff like this - because then I dont have to depend on anyone and also because people dont look at me like I am just another pretty face - funny thing is - I think working on cars with my #1 ex is the only thing I miss about him - its fun to watch and learn.

anyway - ENOUGH

I think you guys are running a great site here (I have visited before but never used it) and I am very grateful for your help.

Oh, one more thing, before I go...is a battery supposed to hiss when you charge it? and if it isnt, does that mean its fried? BTW - it did start my van this am but last night when it was on the charger I noticed it was making a hissing noise and at the very top edge there was a little bubbling action happening.


A word of warning - i will be back (I am sure) and I am a newspaper journalist by trade and we do car features all the time - I am going to make sure that this incident is mentioned and this site is used as a reference!!!!

Thanks again guys - my ex is the one that said figuring this out was like figuring out the winning numbers to 649 - well, when I turned the key and the car fired up, i jumped up and down and screamed as if I had won the 649...I was THAT excited...LMAO (It doesnt take much...ROFL)

 
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01-11-04, 10:28 AM   #24  
Chick..... Great story. I like to see women working on cars. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. AND THEY DONT HAVE TO BE IN BIKINIS EITHER!!!

The battery hissing means you are cooking it. Take it off of the charger and very carefully check the liquid inside. Best bet is to wait till it cools as the acid is boiling and thats why it is bubbling and hissing. If you didnt fry it, you are sure to have shortened its life.
Billy

 
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01-11-04, 12:28 PM   #25  
Originally posted by billys68ss
I like to see women working on cars. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. AND THEY DONT HAVE TO BE IN BIKINIS EITHER!!!
Maybe not, but it sure gets me to volunteer a lot more help..........lol

 
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01-11-04, 01:06 PM   #26  
Sorry fellas, bikini's aren't allowed in Steinbach, believe me.

Nice to hear from a reporter.
Our town just got a new one, who I think judging by his first few articles might put some spark in our local rag.

Good luck in your future projects.

BTW, when removing battery cables from a charger be sure you unplug it first, especially if it has been boiling hard.
The gas coming out of the cells is hydrogen, the same gas that caused the Hindenberg airship to explode.


GregH.........HVAC/R Tech

 
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01-11-04, 01:07 PM   #27  
Glad you fixed the car.I would suggest letting the battery warm up a little before charging if it was dead.During this cold weather you and I have right now they could freeze and explode if charged while frozen.Just a word of caution and if you need a job there are 2 guys where I work you could replace.

 
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01-11-04, 02:33 PM   #28  
question guys

If all she did was remove wires and cap why go thru all the trouble with finding top dead center she did not remove the distributer. What am I missing? there is only one way to put the cap on.

 
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01-11-04, 02:43 PM   #29  
Well....... She needed to know where number 1 was if it werent marked on the cap and that is the ONLY way to find out.
Billy

 
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01-11-04, 06:04 PM   #30  
chickwithwrench

bikinis arent allowed in Steinbach? ROFL

tell me about it

thats why I dont live IN Steinbach...haaha

think I would be able to lay naked by my pool during the summer in town? would have all the dirty old men who sit on their garage roofs drinking beer falling to their deaths and adding to my work...ROFL

thanks for the tip on the battery

 
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01-12-04, 03:48 AM   #31  

Originally posted by chickwithwrench
bikinis arent allowed in Steinbach? ROFL

tell me about it

thats why I dont live IN Steinbach...haaha

think I would be able to lay naked by my pool during the summer in town? would have all the dirty old men who sit on their garage roofs drinking beer falling to their deaths and adding to my work...ROFL
Hahaha....Yes, but they are standard equipment down here in So Florida. Some beaches, even bikini's aren't required.

 
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