96 caravan-- no spark

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  #1  
Old 02-01-04, 10:40 AM
crayfish bob
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96 caravan-- no spark

I have a '96 dodge caravan, 3.0 V6. While driving down the road, it stalled. A quick stop at a gas station , filling the tank with 3.5 gallons of gas (because I was empty) sent me on my merry way. I went 1/2 mile and it stalled again. Replacing the fuel filter was a logical thing to do, as it was winter and I WAS on empty. After further investigation, (and it not starting) I checked for spark. NO spark. I then tested the power to the coil. There is no power to either lead to the coil while cranking or not. . I checked power to the distributor, and I have power to all three leads. I looked under the fuse box that sist under the hood and the ones under the dash. All seem fine.
Where do I check next ?
 
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  #2  
Old 02-01-04, 01:39 PM
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Check the ASD (auto shut down) relay.
 
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Old 02-01-04, 02:01 PM
crayfish bob
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I went under the big long fuse box and I located the asd relay. It has the same part # on it as the fuel pump relay. I switched them and when I turn on the key, I can hear the fuel pump still. I also checked for power to the coil and still no power.
 
  #4  
Old 02-01-04, 04:48 PM
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You'll need a schematic to determine the power source for that. I thought it was the ASD relay.
 
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Old 02-01-04, 04:58 PM
crayfish bob
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I did the code test. It came out 11. No ignition referance signal. Does that mean that my pick-up coil is bad ? It has a photo eye sensor.
 
  #6  
Old 02-01-04, 09:04 PM
mike from nj
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i don't know what code 11 means on an OBDII vehicle. if you want to get better information, find someway to scan for codes(this might be hard)

FYI, the power supply for the coil is also the power supply for the fuel injectors, alternator field control, and oxygen sensor heaters. the computer grounds each one as needed to make it work.

so....if there is power to even 1 injector, or the alt wire, then you can assume the wire is somehow not connected between them all. i'm 99% positive it's a green w/ orange tracer wire.

you may need to be cranking the engine to measure these, or at least on the initial key turn(the first 2 seconds) the fuel pump hum is a good sign, i think it's fed from after this circuit.

the distributor sensor is as almost a fool-proof system as it gets. i've seen 1 not work in a very long time(15 years). if you suspect that, i would hit the junkyard, as your luck can't be that bad to have 2 bad ones, just make sure the connectors match up.

have you pulled the distributor cap and looked at the rotor, does it turn when you crank the engine??

let us know what you find
 
  #7  
Old 02-02-04, 09:59 AM
crayfish bob
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Strange.......... Now this morning the key-on test showed the ASD circuit bad, a new relay did not remedy the problem. Also, the distributor had power yesterday, not today. Sounds like a short somewheres. The rotor does turn. There is power going to the asd relay. The engine compartment is now covered in snow and there is snow packed under the engine. Spring is only three months away...........
 
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Old 02-02-04, 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by crayfish bob
There is power going to the asd relay. The engine compartment is now covered in snow and there is snow packed under the engine. Spring is only three months away...........
God, I forget sometimes, I'm down here in sunny South Florida.

You should have power at 2 terminals with the key on at that relay. You should also have a ground and a load feed that will read as ground in order for that relay to work. Mike said earlier that you may have to be cranking to test that plug. If you get a noid light and a spark tester, you can monitor those feeds very easily.
 
  #9  
Old 02-04-04, 09:33 AM
crayfish bob
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Investigating the ADS relay circuit, I found that one lead had no ground,cranking or not. A quick "cheat" wire to ground started the engine. It was the #2 lead.
Removing the lead kept the engine running. After a few minutes, it stalled. I reconnected the "cheat" wire and it started again, and remove the "cheat" wire again.
After five minutes, it stalled yet again. This time it did not start with or without the "cheat' wire. Placing the "cheat" wire on, I have power at the coil, but now I have no power to the distributor. I truly believe that I did not fry anything because the wire was off for a full five minutes that the engine was running. I need to now find out why I lost power to the distributor.
 
  #10  
Old 02-04-04, 10:43 PM
mike from nj
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how you could get power to all three wires at the distributor is a very good mystery. one wire is 8 volt reference from the pcm, one is sensor ground(through the pcm) and the other is the signal wire(to the pcm).

the asd relay has two wires going to the pcm, one is the ground control(of the relay), and the other is the 12 volts output wire(the pcm verifies power output).

if you're going to jumper wires randomly, you have a 50/50 chance of taking out the pcm, by putting power or ground where it shouldn't be.

to fix this yourself, you will need AT LEAST a copy of a wiring diagram, to see where power should be and shouldn't be, and to see where the wires terminate to prevent causing more than the one problem you already have. two problems are always harder to fix, trust me.

the library is a great place to photocopy wiring diagrams, and you can even make your own personal notes on the copies too.

has the car been in an accident, ever? wiring harnesses can get skinned or pinched and cause problems exactly like this. is any part of the wiring harness touching any exhaust components or moving parts. i've seen harnesses melted together and cause weird things to happen, yet it still ran.

let us know what you find
 
  #11  
Old 02-05-04, 05:23 AM
crayfish bob
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On the ASD relay there is a miniature wiring of itself. I used that to figure out wich is wich. also, testing for power to the other leads left only only one terminal dead. That is the only one I jumped to ground.
Yes, it has been in a accident. The previous owner hit a deer and the passenger side fender has a large dent in it.
The haynes book has diagrams of this vehicle's ignition system, but I see nothing about the ASD relay in it.
 
  #12  
Old 02-05-04, 06:11 PM
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You'd better listen to Mike and start being more careful or your going to be buying another PCM and paying someone else to repair what you damaged. Some of those circuits are designed to carry nothing more than milivolts and you can turn them into toast in a heartbeat. Even using the wrong type of testlight can fry it.
 
  #13  
Old 02-13-04, 10:01 AM
crayfish bob
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It turned out to be a crank sensor.
I took it to a garage and had it done. That word "garage" is usually not in my vocabulary.
There is no crank sensor listed in the haynes book for my engine. This threw me, as it was the first thing my mechanic buddy suggested.
>>> is there a name for a person like me that hates to go to a "garage" ?<<<<

( besides "back yard mechanic" )
 
  #14  
Old 02-13-04, 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by crayfish bob
>>> is there a name for a person like me that hates to go to a "garage" ?<<<<

( besides "back yard mechanic" )
You have to look in the "wifes edition dictionary" under stubborn.
 
  #15  
Old 02-13-04, 09:06 PM
crayfish bob
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Well it runs great. Thank you for your help and support.
 
  #16  
Old 02-14-04, 10:39 PM
mike from nj
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i'm glad it's fixed,
glad you let US know what actually fixed it,
and sorry you found out the hard way the true value of a haynes manual.
 
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