1990 cavalier

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  #1  
Old 03-01-04, 06:29 AM
kevin b. wilson
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1990 cavalier

i have a 1990 cavalier s/w automatic.car starts and drives great,till you come to a stop,then car shuts down.will restart again without problem.sometimes after restart,when you go to drive it will stutter and backfire through throttle body.i have changed about every sensor on car including new fuel pump,swapped out computors,injector and cleaned electrical connections.had car on scanner twice,first time,no reading,second time,t.p.s.replace with g.m.sensor,code went away but problem persisted.car shut down the other day,i shoved in a code reader before turning key to off and i got a code 44,lean exhaust.no exhaust leaks and i installed new o2 (g.m.)sensor last week.i have spent so much money on this car now,i hate the thoughts of getting rid of it,i feel it is something simple that i can't put my finger on.if the car was carburated i would say it acted like a vacuum leak.i have checked all vacuum lines and even had throttle body off and replaced gaskets.
please help!!!!!!!
 
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  #2  
Old 03-01-04, 10:14 AM
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maybe...

...you could rig up a fuel pressure guage and then drive the car til the problem occurs and see what the FP looks like. it sounds as if it may be going lean (starving for fuel, code 44) when it happens. the backfire also tells me it may be lean.

i'm sorry to say that I believe that if you had taken it to a competent tech in the beginning, you'd be money ahead...considering all you've already spent throwing parts at it.

truthfully...i'm not sure a sensor would cause your symptoms...unless possibly it's an intermittant crank sensor problem (not common, but it can happen)

keep in mind that just because a code is set, it doesn't mean that the associated part has failed, only that it has operated outside of it's expected parameters.

start with the fuel thing and see if you can alter what happens in some way when it messes up (ie, using propane to supplement fuel supply in case it's a fuel pump going south)
 
  #3  
Old 03-01-04, 12:13 PM
kevin b. wilson
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1990 cavalier

i havn't tried the guage trick,but thankyou,i will,although i just put a new fuel pump in the car 2 weeks ago.other than fuel pump what should i look for that would shut down my fuel pressure?the fuel filter is also new.
 
  #4  
Old 03-01-04, 12:27 PM
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the...

...pressure regulator...altho intermittants are pretty rare
 
  #5  
Old 03-01-04, 03:02 PM
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Re: 1990 cavalier

Originally posted by kevin b. wilson
iwhat should i look for that would shut down my fuel pressure?the fuel filter is also new.
Your approaching things backwards. You need to find out what symptom you have first and then try to figure out the cause. Like carguyinva said, put a gauge on in and find out if it is a fuel problem, don't try to throw more parts at it to fix a symptom you don't even know if you have.
 
  #6  
Old 03-01-04, 08:49 PM
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cavalier dies when stopping

Check the basics (compression, fuel, ignition) first. If those are good, you can get a little more creative by cleaning the throttle body and checking sensors.

One other thing. If I remember correctly there is a electrical module on the trans that the shift linkage hooks up to (can't remember exact name - D*** I hate these "senior moments". When they go bad, it causes the exact stalling symptom you describe. The ones I've seen go bad are usually after the car warms up and has been driven 10-20 miles. Might want to look into it.

HTH

Matt
 
  #7  
Old 03-02-04, 03:53 PM
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Re: cavalier dies when stopping

Originally posted by smogtek
One other thing. If I remember correctly there is a electrical module on the trans that the shift linkage hooks up to (can't remember exact name - D*** I hate these "senior moments". When they go bad, it causes the exact stalling symptom you describe. The ones I've seen go bad are usually after the car warms up and has been driven 10-20 miles. Might want to look into it.
Sounds like your referring to a TCC (torque converter control) solonoid. Thats when a transmission that's cruising in overdrive with the converter locked doesn't release when coming to a stop. That's a pretty common problem with GM products. If you look down at the trans behind the left headlight, you should see a square plug in the trans, if you unplug it and drive it around, you find out if it was you problem. It won't hurt anything to disconnect it. You just won't have overdrive.
 
  #8  
Old 03-03-04, 03:05 AM
kevin b. wilson
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1990 cavalier

I HAVE TAKEN CAR TO A LOCAL SHOP THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE VERY GOOD WITH G.M.'S.I WILL LET YOU GUYS KNOW HOW IT TURNS OUT.THIS GOOD MONEY AFTER BAD SHOULD HAVE STOPPED LONG AGO.I'VE BEEN MESSING AROUND WITH CARS SINCE I WAS 12 YEARS OLD AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE BEEN STUMPED.GUESS I MIGHT AS WELL GET USED TO THE IDEA THE DAYS OF THE BACKYARD MECHANIC ARE COMING TO AN END.I WANT TO THANK ALL YOU GUYS FOR YOUR ADVISE AND SUGGESTIONS.
I'D RATHER BE SLEEPLESS IN SEATTLE THAN FRUSTRATED IN NOVA SCOTIA.
THANKS GUYS.
K.B.W. 03/03/04
 
  #9  
Old 03-10-04, 07:33 AM
kevin b. wilson
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1990 cavalier.................

WELL GUYS AS I TOLD YOU THE OTHER DAY,I TOOK THE CAR TO A LOCAL G.M.REPAIR SHOP.I GOT THE CAR BACK ON FRIDAY NIGHT.WHAT THEY TOLD ME WAS THAT THE T.P.S. & IDLE AIR MOTOR WERE NOT PROPERLY SET UP WHICH ALSO HAD THE THROTTLE PLATE SITTING IN THE WRONG POSITION.O.K.,I'LL BUY THAT,I GUESS THIS WOULD MAYBE EXPLAIN THE BACK FIRING THROUGH THE THROTTLE BODY.SAID THEY LET THE CAR SIT AND IDLE FOR 1-1/2 HRS.DID NOT STALL OUT,TOOK FOR DRIVE ON HIGHWAY AND COULD NOT GET CAR TO REPRODUCE SYMTOMS I HAD DECRIBED TO THEM.ON SATURDAY MORNING,CAR STARTED FINE,AFTER ABOUT 15 SECONDS OF RUNNING IT FELT LIKE A SLIGHT MISS IN ENGINE THEN STARTED TO IDLE QUITE ROUGH.WORSE THAN BEFORE I TOOK IT TO THE SHOP.PUT CAR IN GEAR AND IT RAN PERFECT.DROVE PROBABLY 40 MILES ON WEEKEND AND HAD NO TROUBLE OTHER THAN ROUGH IDLE AT MORNING START UP.NOW COMES THE TRUE TEST.I LIVE APPROXIMATLEY 15 MILES FROM WORK AND LEAVE HOME AROUND 05:30 A.M.WHICH MEANS I HAVE NO TRAFFIC TO CONTEND WITH IN THE MORNINGS AND I NEVER HAVE ANY TROUBLE WITH CAR IN THE MORNING EITHER.I LEAVE WORK AT AROUND4:45 P.M.AND THE TRAFFIC IS USUALLY QUITE HEAVY,SO I NORMALLY HAVE TO SIT FOR ABOUT 15 MINUTES OR SO IN TRAFFIC BEFORE I GET TO THE HIGHWAY.THEN IT'S A STRAIGHT RUN TILL I TAKE THE EXIT FOR HOME.MONDAY EVENING,I TAKE THE EXIT FOR HOME,GET TO THE FIRST SET OF LIGHTS AND AS PER USUAL,THE CAR STARTS COUGHING AND MISSING AND SHUTS DOWN.CAR RESTARTS RIGHT AWAY AND I CONTINUE HOME.I DECIDED TO TRY UNPLUGGING T.C.C.THE NEXT DAY I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.I CALLED THE SHOP,THEY SAID TO BRING THE CAR IN THE FIRST OF NEXT WEEK AND THEY WOULD TAKE ANOTHER KICK AT IT.CAN YOU THINK OF ANYTHING I COULD ASK THEM TO LOOK AT.THEY HAD CAR ON DIAGNOSTIC MACHINE AND COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT I HAD MENTIONED AT THE START OF MY STORY.I CAN'T FIGURE THIS,THE CAR WORKS SO GOOD OTHER THAN ON THE WAY HOME FROM WORK.SEEMS LIKE A HEAT RELATED PROBLEM,BUT THE CAR IS NOT OVER HEATING.I HAVE NOTICED SINCE THE START OF THIS WINTER THAT I DON'T SEEM TO BE GETTING THE SAME HEAT FROM THE HEATER/DEFROST AS I USED TO AND WHEN YOU SHIFT THE LEVER FROM DEFROST TO FLOOR OR VENT I SOMETIMES DOES NOT REDIRECT THE AIR RIGHT AWAY.I KNOW THAT THIS SYSTEM RUNS OFF A VACUUM,COULD THIS BE A CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM I AM HAVING?
 
  #10  
Old 03-10-04, 07:59 AM
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Hi Kevin, welcome to the Forums

I merged you two posts together, its better to use the reply button when dealing with the same vehicle/problem for continuity.

Also on the internet CAPS is considered shouting

I know your new so no bigie
 
  #11  
Old 03-17-04, 08:43 AM
kevin b. wilson
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1990 cavalier

i have had car back to service shop twice now,last time they disconnected the e.g.r.valve and said to try it.same problem again.these folks are not doing anything different from what i had been doing.replace parts,process of elimination.this is turning into an expensive cavalier.
 
  #12  
Old 03-17-04, 09:26 AM
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it might help...

...if you could get it to do what it does for them...i know this is frustrating for you...but it's hard for them to get "into it" if they can't experience it when it happens. that's one idea...

what about some water in your fuel...maybe a fuel sample would tell someone something.
 
  #13  
Old 03-17-04, 09:36 AM
kevin b. wilson
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they actually were able to get the car to reproduce the problem i have been experiencing.as for water in the fuel,i had the tank off and replaced the pump a couple of weeks ago,no sign of water.this morning i replaced the fuel pump relay on drivers side fire wall,i won't know for sure if this helps until this evening on the way home.
 
  #14  
Old 03-17-04, 10:13 AM
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just for the record...

...that relay won't help as the fuel pump has a redundant power supply thru the oil pressure sending unit. you could throw the relay away and the car will still run. back to my original suggestion...if you want to see if it's fuel supply related, you'll have to rig up a pressure guage to the fuel system and watch it when the problem occurs.
 
  #15  
Old 03-18-04, 10:24 AM
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there's a hose that goes from the throttle body to the MAP sensor on those that have a bad habit of getting squishy and collapsing. Either that or they get brittle and break. The map sensor is mounted on the fire wall. look for a rubber hose from the throttle body to this sensor. Right where it leaves the throttle body, make sure it's in good shape. Or just replace it....
 
  #16  
Old 03-18-04, 12:29 PM
kevin b. wilson
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i checked these hoses and changed them back when i thought i had only a vacuum leak,but thankyou.
 
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