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stalling cavalier


5buckeye0's Avatar
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03-08-04, 05:27 PM   #1  
stalling cavalier

My daughter has a 92 Cavalier 2.2 with 122,000 miles. She has had a problem with it stalling and not restarting. After it sits awile it will restart. I went and picked it up with her tonigt and didn't have a problem. I can never get it to stall. I brought it home and checked for codes and it hasn't set any. I cleaned the trottle body ( last time I worked on it I didn't have any cleaner.) I've replaced the plugs, wires, pvc,and all the filters. It did seem to have a little better acceleration after cleaning the throttle body. The exhaust is new converter and muffler. She said it mainly happens when she makes a hard stop like if someone pulls out in front of her or she has to stop quickly in traffic. It sounds to me like she could be losing ground to something.But that is just a guess. maybe one of you proffessionals might have an idea. All replys will be appreciated.

 
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03-08-04, 05:35 PM   #2  
fordman30
lol my guess would be to tell her to quit driving like she is in a race.but it does sound like a ground to me .

 
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03-08-04, 05:46 PM   #3  
Well, grounds don't normally fix themselves after sitting but and electrical component that fails due to heat could act like that. What your going to have to do is test it at the time it fails for spark, injector pulse and fuel pressure. You are losing at least one of these. Knowing what is lost at the time will help narrow down where to look.

 
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03-08-04, 07:36 PM   #4  
fordman30
it may sound strange but i was thinking my friend had a saturn everytime he would push the brakes it would go dead on him.his problem was a weak alternator.he replaced it and the problem went away.i would have the alternator checked out under a strain and see what it reads. his lost to many volts.autozone will check them for free.if it is the alternator DONT buy from them.

 
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03-08-04, 09:01 PM   #5  
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i dont have a cavalier but i do have a corsica 2.2. I had the same prob for the longest time. replaced everything electrical (almost) and had it checked for codes. nothing came up. a week ago i switched from reg octane gas (87) and upgraded to supreme (92) and it stopped stalling. havent had aa prob since. im not a pro but you could try.

just a thought.......

 
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03-09-04, 02:57 PM   #6  
The octane rating has absolutely no bearing on the stalling. The difference could have been the quality of the fuel with regard to moisture but not the octane.

 
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03-09-04, 05:09 PM   #7  
What about checking the ignition coil and module.

 
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03-10-04, 04:21 PM   #8  
did it again

well my daughter call stranded again. So I went to get her and This time I couldn't get it to start. So I called a tow truck and told her it might be a blessing in desguise. At least I would be able to see what it wasn't doing. (fuel, spark etc. ) Wouldn,t you know it when the tow truck driver got it back to the house it started right up. I do think it something getting hot and when it cools down it will start just like Desi said. I just ordered a scanner so I'm hopeing I can hook it up and get some useful information. Or maybe leave it hooked up and take it out to try and force a failure. The worst part is when it doesn't start Iv'e never been any place where I could really check it out. It's always along a major hwy. Don't know if any one has any ideas with this limited info. If not maybe I can furnish more info later Thanks

 
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03-10-04, 06:16 PM   #9  
I really doubt the scanner is going to be much help with this. Maybe just looking for a tach signal will help some but if something in the primary ignition like the crank sensor/dist pick up or the ignition module are what's failing, that won't show up on the scanner. The best tools to find this problem are a spark tester, a noid light and a fuel pressure gauge. those are the three things that will tell the story.

 
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03-10-04, 07:22 PM   #10  
trial and error

OK Iv'e got a fuel pressure tester, Guess I can use a spark plug for a spark tester. Does it take different noid lights for different vehicles or manufacturers or what.also since it is running now how much do you think I'll be able to trace down.

 
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03-11-04, 04:27 AM   #11  
GM basically has 2 different noid light aplications, 1 for TBI and another for individual ported injectors. (Bosch) No, you don't want to use a spark plug to test the spark. They make a very inexpensive adjustable spark tester. It should be able to jump nearly a 1" gap with a healthy blue spark. The testers usually have numbers on them. You should be able to jump the 30K mark. The 2 tools should cost lest than about $20 total.

 
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03-11-04, 06:04 PM   #12  
I'm with pwvognet.

This is beginning to sound more and more like the classical "electrical component gets hot, shuts down, cools off and then restarts" problem.

I'm inclined to ohm check the ignition components "hot" and "cold" for some readings to compare against specs.

If you can do it at home, try letting the car idle 'til it gets hot & see what happens. Gotta be quick getting that module out tho'.

More than likely a bad ignition module.

Matt

 
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03-12-04, 03:49 AM   #13  
Intermittant crank sensors or modules won't show up with a resistance test and they are the bigger suspects. Coils don't usually act like that when they fail. They start showing a problem with loads before quitting altogether.

 
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03-12-04, 06:48 AM   #14  
I have a 85' chevy, and had the same problem a few months ago.
Replaced the ignition coil, and haven't had any problems since. Check it out.

 
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03-12-04, 02:38 PM   #15  
Let us know what you find.

 
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03-12-04, 02:56 PM   #16  
phantom
ignition module is my guess

 
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03-13-04, 03:05 PM   #17  
results so far

Here are the results of the tests I ran so far. I got a scanner and hooked it to it. The first night I ran it til it quit. But I didn't have a spark tester to check for spark. Bought a spark tester today and checked it before starting and it jumped the setting for 40000. It wasn't a nice blue spark like desi said it should have, it was more of a yellow spark. I ran it til it quit and it didn't have any spark what so ever. I could tell when it was going to stall because it would act like it wanted to surge. Each time just before it quit I put the scanner into capture mode and the results were similar each time. Here are the results if these will tell a more experienced person than me anything.

Coolant Temp -197.6
Map Sensor - 1.39 Volts
Throttle Sensor- 0.41 Volts
Throttle angle - 0%
Oxygen Sensor - 682 mVolts
Idle Air Mtr Pos - 33 Steps
Desired Idle - 22 RPM
Battery Voltage -13.5 Volts
Block Learn - 90
Integrator - 125
Engine RPM - 875
Air To Fuel Mix - 14.6
Engine run time - 829 Seconds
Manifold air temp. 51.7 Degrees F.
Injector Pulse - 3.1 mS
Block Learn Cell - 0
Barometric Press - 4.80 Volts
Spark Advance - 5.9 Degrees
Oxygen Sensor - Ready
Idle Kicker - Active
Fan Number 1 - On
Park/Neutral - Detected
A/C Forced Off - No
A/C Pressure Fan - Not Requested
TCC Status - Not Locked
Loop Status - Closed
Async Mode - Off
Learn Control - Enabled
Rich Lean Flag - Rich
Fuel Cut Off - Disabled

This Car is not setting any codes at all. Monday when it quit on my Daughter and I went and got it after I got off work. it ran fine and after I looked it over and couldn't find anything wrong. I took it out and beat on it a little bit and had it up to 90 , but no failure. It took a little bit of distance to get it up there but I still had pedal left. I think it is probably an ignition module. If you guys think its a module do you guys think I should change the coil packs at the same time while I have it apart. Also are there any more tests that I shoud perform before I condeming the module. All responses will be appreciated.
This is a distributorless ignition.

 
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03-13-04, 03:17 PM   #18  
Capturing info just before it quits and still is running may not tell the whole story.

You need to capture the info when it dosen't start.

 
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03-13-04, 03:26 PM   #19  
Years back I seem to remember there was a problem with the crank sensor on some of these cracking? Won't set a code but caused loss of spark.

One that I had an early '90's v-6 I found I was losing spark, I kept back probing the ECM till I found I lost the crank sensor signal when it stalled and wouldn't restart.

 
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03-13-04, 04:25 PM   #20  
Like I said before, the scanner won't be much help here. That's not the area your having trouble. It would help to know if your had injector pulse also. It's a toss up between the crank sensor and the module. If you were losing injector pulse too, that would indicate crank sensor, if you not losing injector pulse, that would point toward ignition module.

 
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03-13-04, 08:42 PM   #21  
injector pulse tomorrow

OK I'll check the injector pulse tomorrow and get with you guys. Thanks again

 
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03-13-04, 09:01 PM   #22  
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I have seen this problem on many older GM cars. The ignition module could be suspect, but I tend to think the crank sensor is to blame. As the sensor ages, the plastic casing gets brittle and cracks. The sensor fills with oil and you lose the reference signal causing a no start condition. After the oil seeps back out of the crankshaft sensor, the vehicle will start. Given the driving condition your daughter states when achieving a failure result, I really tend to lean toward the crankshaft sensor as the candidate for replacement. The best thing to do is remove the sensor, clean it and inspect for any signs of cracking/breaking.


Last edited by Auto Doc; 03-14-04 at 10:57 AM.
 
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03-14-04, 03:26 AM   #23  
Re: injector pulse tomorrow

Originally posted by 5buckeye0
OK I'll check the injector pulse tomorrow and get with you guys. Thanks again
That's the best way. You could damage a good sensor just trying to check it. Now obviously, I meant to check it while it's in the "no start" condition.

 
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03-14-04, 08:35 AM   #24  
No spark

OK I ran it this morning til it quit. Checked it before letting it run and had spark at the spark tester and the noid light. Ran it about 20 minutes til it died and rechecked. No spark at spark tester,and noid light wasn't showing and light whatsoever. waiting for reply.



PS is the crankshaft sensor a really sensitive part, or is it more so sensitive to electronic testing. Thanks

 
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03-14-04, 09:52 AM   #25  
I'd say crank sensor, if you had noid and no spark it would be module. You have neither, the computer dosen't see that the engine is turning.

I would think the scanner would not show cranking RPM when it dosen't start.

 
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03-14-04, 10:23 AM   #26  
Going to try the crank sensor

Iv'e decided to try the crank sensor since that sounds to me like thats what it is also. Plus thats a fairly cheap repair. There's a 120.00 difference between the sensor and the module at the local napa store. Hope for the daughters sake that that works.
( then again she did spend a lot of my money while she was growing up. But I'll be nice.) Thanks again

 
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03-14-04, 10:47 AM   #27  
The crank sensor provide reference signal for both the ignition and the injector pulse so that sounds like a safe bet. They have a pretty high failure rate too.

 
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03-15-04, 02:30 PM   #28  
Well it seems to have worked

Replaced the crankshaft sensor yesterday and put about 46 miles on it . It ran really well. Not so much as a hiccup. Once again I would like to thank all you guys for all your help and patience while I worked thru all the testing. And I hope these posts might have helped someone else also. Thanks Again.

 
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03-15-04, 04:33 PM   #29  
Glad to hear the operation was a success and the patient lived.

 
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