Grounding the starter???? Still need help!

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  #1  
Old 06-06-04, 09:35 AM
ridelikehell
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Wiring Help!!!!...Smoking fuse panel...

I'll give you all a very breif overview...Basically the car is a 1966 Shelby Cobra Replica that I've built essentially from scratch...now, I know absolutely NOTHING about wiring, so my father has done that...today we were trying to start the car and first of all it seems like it isn't getting any spark, which isn't a HUGE problem and it shouldn't be too hard to solve...the main problem is that while we were trying to fire it up, the fuse panel started smoking...I've checked all of the fuses and none are blown, so I have no idea what would cause this?...
The ignition and wiring setup I have is: MSD 6AL box, MSD Blaster 2 Coil, MSD Distributor, a Ford Alternator (if that makes any difference), and the fuse block/wiring harness and all that is from Haywire...

I don't know if anyone will be able to help me on this but any insight would be greatly appreciated...
Thanks in advance,

--Dave.
 
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  #2  
Old 06-06-04, 02:55 PM
ridelikehell
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UPDATE: I've determined that the wire that's causing the panel to smoke is the main ground...the ground wire is running from the fuse panel to the engine block (it's a 10ga. wire)...the reason I don't have it running directly to the battery is because I have the battery located in the truck, with the negative lead bolted directly to the frame...I'm thinking that maybe the problem is because I don't have a good enough ground directly from the engine to the chassis?...If I were to run a thicker wire as a ground from the block to the frame would that solve my problem?...

thanks in advance,
--Dave...

Oh and I solved the lack of spark problem so the overheating ground is my only issue right now...
thanks again.
 
  #3  
Old 06-06-04, 03:14 PM
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I think you answered your own ? It must be using the ground in the fuse panel instead of the frame to block. You need heavy guage wire for that ground (4-6 gauge)
 
  #4  
Old 06-06-04, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by toyotaman11769
It must be using the ground in the fuse panel instead of the frame to block.
Make sure all you other grounds are in good shape and none are missing. Make sure you have a ground strap from the block to the body, the block to the frame and the cable from the battery to the block.
 
  #5  
Old 06-06-04, 03:59 PM
ridelikehell
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Originally Posted by Desi501
Make sure all you other grounds are in good shape and none are missing. Make sure you have a ground strap from the block to the body, the block to the frame and the cable from the battery to the block.
The car has a fiberglass body so do I just forget about that ground all together? and the problem with grounding the battery to the block is that my battery is mounted in the trunk, which is why I figured I could just ground the battery to the frame, and then the frame to the block??? Or will that not surfice?

Thanks for all the help so far!
 
  #6  
Old 06-06-04, 04:38 PM
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Correct about what your doing. You don't ground the fiberglass, but every thing mounted to the body will require a ground to the frame or battery.
 
  #7  
Old 06-06-04, 04:38 PM
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Do you have the positive cable connected directly to the starter or solonoid? You can't feed a starter through a fuse box.
 
  #8  
Old 06-06-04, 05:29 PM
ridelikehell
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yes i have the positive cable running directly from the battery to the starter relay, and a seperate starter cable running from the oposite post on that relay to the solenoid on the starter...

another update, I added two 10ga. wires from the block directly to the chassis as grounds (as per directions with the haywire kit)...this solved my problem with the ground lead getting hot except now my starter cable and also the starter itself started smoking...so basically adding the two extra grounds simply transfered the problem somewhere else... ...i'm really at a loss now as to what to do, i thought about replacing the two new 10ga grounds with one 4ga ground but i don't know if that's even the cause of the problem anymore...

thanks so far guys i'll get there eventually!
 
  #9  
Old 06-06-04, 05:44 PM
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The 10 gauge wires are not enough to carry the starter current, you will need a 4-6 gauge wire from the frame to the block to carry the starter current which can go as high as 300-400 amps on a hot restart momentarily.
 
  #10  
Old 06-06-04, 06:31 PM
ridelikehell
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Originally Posted by toyotaman11769
The 10 gauge wires are not enough to carry the starter current, you will need a 4-6 gauge wire from the frame to the block to carry the starter current which can go as high as 300-400 amps on a hot restart momentarily.
so the fact that they're too small would cause the starter to heat up? wouldn't that just cause the wires to heat up first?...sorry i really don't know too much about wiring!
 
  #11  
Old 06-09-04, 02:25 PM
ridelikehell
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Grounding the starter???? Still need help!

Hey all, for those who were helping me out before many thanks, but I'm still having some troubles with my starter overheating!, we're thinking now that the starter might have to have its own ground wire to the chassis...I thought that just simply being bolted to the bell housing would be enough of a ground but maybe not?...So if anyone can clarify as to if i indeed need a seperate ground going from the chassis to the starter?...and if so, where is the best place on the starter to run that cable...???

Thanks in advance!
 
  #12  
Old 06-09-04, 02:35 PM
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Don't know what the other problems were. If the starter is overheating, it is caused by either electrical or mechanical resistance. It is just an electric motor run in reverse and may have bad windings or the solenoid could be bad and causing a ton of heat. Or it is being held up by bad bearings in the starter or too much load on it because of a motor which doesn't want to turn freely. Or it is a chevy and gets hot from the exhaust manifold (good design, hahaha). Once you bolt the starter down, it is grounded enough, least that is what I know...
 
  #13  
Old 06-09-04, 04:01 PM
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Grounding Starter

I have had a lot of confusing starter problems, but one thing I know for sure is, you can't get a better ground than bolting directly to the engine. I have never heard of needing a seperate ground for the starter unless you have a plastic bell housing or block. You can't beat metal to metal grounding with metal bolts.
 
  #14  
Old 06-09-04, 04:14 PM
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What makes you think you have a ground problem at all. What is happening? Is the starter cranking good and just getting hot. Will it not crank. Have to checked starter draw? Your engine should already be grounded through the battery cable. That's all you need. Give us a better explanation of exactly what your trying to fix.
 
  #15  
Old 06-09-04, 06:15 PM
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I merged this thread with your previous thread to keep things together and keep down the confusion.

Rides...... Did you take the reccomendations Toyotaman gave you into consideration? You may have done some damage with the limited grounds you had before. If the wires have heated up to the point of smoking, I would recommend replacing them as they arent going to last much longer anyway.]Billy
 
  #16  
Old 06-09-04, 07:46 PM
ridelikehell
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Ok a final update for everyone!...I added a 1ga. wire from the block to the chassis and that's stopped the grounding problems, my distributor was indexed wrong so thats fixed, and my fuel line was kinked, so that's fixed as well and i fired it up for the first time tonight!

thanks everyone for all of your excellent help it's very much appreciated!
 
  #17  
Old 06-10-04, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ridelikehell
Ok a final update for everyone!...I added a 1ga. wire from the block to the chassis and that's stopped the grounding problems,
Why would that make a difference? Doesn't your battery ground cable go to the block?
 
  #18  
Old 06-10-04, 06:25 AM
ridelikehell
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Originally Posted by Desi501
Why would that make a difference? Doesn't your battery ground cable go to the block?
nope the battery's in the trunk
 
  #19  
Old 06-10-04, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ridelikehell
nope the battery's in the trunk
Well, now I see what car this is. You see what confusion using 2 different threads for the same car can be?
 
  #20  
Old 06-10-04, 02:43 PM
ridelikehell
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Originally Posted by Desi501
Well, now I see what car this is. You see what confusion using 2 different threads for the same car can be?
well since the threads were merged for me i didn't think there would be a problem...especially from someone with so many posts?
***************************************************
NO NEED FOR THAT TYPE OF RESPONSE!!! Therefore I deleted it!!!
thanks again all who helped out getting this problem solved!
 

Last edited by billys68ss; 06-10-04 at 05:33 PM.
  #21  
Old 06-10-04, 05:31 PM
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LOL.... Desi.... Read the top of the thread. I merged this one with his older thread. He located the battery in the trunk and the negative battery cable is hooked to the frame.
Billy

OOPS Ya'll beat me to it.
 
  #22  
Old 06-10-04, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by billys68ss
LOL.... Desi.... Read the top of the thread. I merged this one with his older thread. He located the battery in the trunk and the negative battery cable is hooked to the frame.
Billy

OOPS Ya'll beat me to it.
I realized that after you merged them. I had no idea it was the fiberglass car until you did that. I wouldn't have responded with the cable question if the threads weren't separated when I answered. That's why I pointed that out to him.
 
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