1990 Merc needs a bit of r-12

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  #1  
Old 06-11-04, 11:06 AM
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1990 Merc needs a bit of r-12

My 1990 Merc Wagon is low on refrigerant. It cools, but not all that well on the hottest days (>90). The system has worked just great for more than 14 years with zero problems. Is there any chance I could find a can of r-12 anywhere? Where can I begin to look? It is not worth doing anything else. The car is used only sparingly (but regularly) as a third vehicle mainly for trips to home improvement stores to pick up large items. Not worth much, except sentimentally. I expect she may last at least another year or so as she is still running strong.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
 
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  #2  
Old 06-11-04, 02:29 PM
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R12 is still readily available but it is only sold to licensed shops that have proven they own a recovery machine. It may have worked good for 14 years but now it has a leak and it will leak again, faster every time. You really should find and repair the leak. R12 is too expensive to waste.
 
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Old 06-11-04, 05:23 PM
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Unless you know someone with a little can of r-12 stashed you are out of luck.Those cans have been unavailable for years.You could get certified to purchase r-12 in larger cylinders at a cost of $900 to $1200 if it means that much to you.
 
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Old 06-11-04, 05:47 PM
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12 oz cans are readily available down here to shops (not certified techs) for $22-$28 per can. the last shop I worked at used them exclusively and charged $60 per can.
 
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Old 06-13-04, 11:20 AM
tgivensjr
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r-12 substitute

Now their is an approved substitute for r-12 on the older system. it is called FREEZE 12. It is compatible with r-12 and you can purchased it without being certified. It is cfc free and cost about $10.00 for a 12 oz can made by johnson industry.
 
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Old 06-13-04, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tgivensjr
Now their is an approved substitute for r-12 on the older system. it is called FREEZE 12. It is compatible with r-12 and you can purchased it without being certified. It is cfc free and cost about $10.00 for a 12 oz can made by johnson industry.
Don't do it. That stuff will not only ruin somebodies recovery machine but I once put a set of gauges on a car that had that stuff in it that was parked in the sun and the ambient pressure was over 140 lbs. Also it is NOT currently approved for automotive A/C use. It may be legal to sell but not to install into air conditioners.
 
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Old 06-13-04, 03:27 PM
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issue of using freeze 12 refrigerant

without further discussion go to www.freeze12.com and decide for yourself if this would be right for you. I have been using this for about 5 years in a very hot area of the country-Ga- and have never had any problem with customer car nor any of our equipment. Actually does a better job than R12.
 
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Old 06-13-04, 03:54 PM
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Freeze 12 is on the EPA's "snap" list of acceptable refrigerants. This merely means it is not flammable or hazardous. The EPA does not endorse any compatability or benefit claims. The EPA does require a unique fitting be installed and specific equipment for that blend be purchased. All refrigerant, by law, must be reclaimed before making any repair to the system. Most shops will not willingly reclaim that blend into their equipment to contaminate their storage tank and recycler. Compressor warranties will be voided for the use of Freeze12 and most dealers will reject the idea.
 
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Old 06-15-04, 05:21 AM
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Thanks for the info on freeze 12, tgivensjr. I will investigate further. By the way, can the freeze 12 and r-12 "co-habitate"? Or, must the system be all one or the other? I would think not since that would mean replacing the drier/accumulator, I believe, yes? That's the issue with 134 if I understand it correctly.

As for the EPA endorsing or not endorsing things, of course they cannot endorse products. That means nothing. Also, I have no intentions of bringing this car in to ruin anyone's recovery machine. The whole point is that it just is not worth the money to pay someone to work on this car. I have pretty much maintained her myself for 14 years and she's still going pretty strong. See, this is called recycling - keeping things for a long time and not having to cause millions of BTUs to be wasted in mining new metal, making new plastic parts, etc, and building a new vehicle to replace this one. We use to call it simply being frugal and cleaning up after ourselves. Now it's called envirnmentalism and has become a religion. If these enviro-wackos had simply cleaned their rooms when mom told them to, we wouldn't need an EPA. I guess someone always thinks "there ought to be a law" against what thet other fellow is doing. Oh, and while I'm on my soap box, the case for CFCs and global warming is purely political and not scientific. Even if it were true (which I doubt), we could never know since it's at the heart of an ideological debate.

Final q: If freeze 12 is enviro-safe and does no harm, then there should be no problem just adding a can every so often until the leak is unbearable, yes?

(Of course my q ignores the existing r-12 in the system that is ravaging the world and killing babies and Mother Earth and Sister Sky - sorry could not help it).
 
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Old 06-15-04, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sleepy hollow
Oh, and while I'm on my soap box, the case for CFCs and global warming is purely political and not scientific. Even if it were true (which I doubt), we could never know since it's at the heart of an ideological debate.
Nothing questionable about it at all. It's scientific fact and it attitudes like yours that will leave this mess for your grandchildren. That's the problem these days. Everybody thinks it's all about Me Me Me...............
 
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Old 06-16-04, 06:01 AM
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Thanks for your response, Desi501. Now, I would respectfully ask you to give me a bit more credit than that. My position is not simply an "attitude", but rather a reasoned position.

Whether you believe me or not, I am willing to be convinced of the scientific truth of global warming. But I am afraid I will not be intimidated into believeing it. thta simply does not amke sense scientifically.

So, if you could please provide two things:

1) You own reasoned logic as to why you are convinced of GW. I find most people cannot coherently explain why they believe global warming to be a fact. They often simply appeal to the newspapers - not exactly the most reliable source I think you'd have to agree. Bottom line is they believe it because it is something they have heard. Not always, but usually.

2) A reference to the scientific body of evidence (actually I would prefer a reference to the proof of GW, but I am willing to just look at evidence since no proof actually exists that I am aware of).

As for concerns about my progeny, I can assure you I do worry about them. If you take a moment to observe the enviro-wacko movement I think you'll have to agree that most of them have no intentions of having children, no less grandchildren. Their concerns are disingenuous at best in my opinion, as they are purely narcissistic.

Also, I am sorry that my attitude, which includes a conviction about being frugal and not wasting things is something you find objectionable. Unfortunately they all go together. I think GW is a fraud and I believe in not being wasteful and being tidy. In contrast, I have seen the Mall in DC after these "green" folks supposedly demonstrate for their misguided causes - some environmentalists, the place is a pig sty that you and I pay to have cleaned up.

So please tell me - why should I accept this?
 
  #12  
Old 06-16-04, 01:57 PM
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This thread is no longer related to automotive repair because the subject matter changed so I am closing it.This is not an open debate forum about enviromental issues.
 
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