oil gusher

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  #1  
Old 11-17-04, 08:17 PM
mr_barley
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Unhappy oil gusher

i have a 1996 chevy lumina 3.1L v-6 w a/c.
when started oil comes out in a 1/4 inch or so stream from somewhere up front near the exhaust manifold. i changed the oil filter and the leak is somewhere
just above the filter. the oils pumps out in 10 seconds i lose a quart or so.
it doesn't appear that oil is getting to the top of the engine. no coolant in the oil also no smoke (white or oil) in exhaust.
it's like there is an oil line somewhere with a hole in it any ideas what this could be.
due to finances i really need this fixed.

thank you
 
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  #2  
Old 11-18-04, 04:16 PM
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I had a car do this,

it was the oil pressure sending unit, the top had blown off of it and was gushing oil down the side. Replacing the sending unit solved the problem.

The sending unit looks like a small round cylinder screwed into the engine block with a wire or connector on the top of it.

Hope this helps!
 
  #3  
Old 11-18-04, 04:30 PM
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Did it leak before you changed the oil?If so the oil filter may be double gasketed.Always make sure the block is clean and the old oil filter gasket isn't stuck to the block.
 
  #4  
Old 11-18-04, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by davo
Did it leak before you changed the oil?If so the oil filter may be double gasketed.Always make sure the block is clean and the old oil filter gasket isn't stuck to the block.
What Davo meant was---If it did not leak before you changed the oil the old oil filter gasket probably stuck to the block. When you put the new filter on the old gasket will distort and you will have a leak.

Or it may be possible that you hit the oil pressure sending unit by mistake while changing the filter (if it is close to the filter). The top of the sending unit is plastic.
 
  #5  
Old 11-18-04, 06:18 PM
mr_barley
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when i went out in the morning there was oil on the ground. i checked the oil filter because it had oil on it. it seemed loose (i removed it by hand) rather than just tighten it i bought a new one and 4 quarts of oil. after the install of the new filter when started i lost about 3 quarts in less than a minute. it is not coming from the filter but from somewhere that seems to be about even with the sending unit but higher. although i am waiting for the rain to stop to look into it further. i did try to have my wife start it while i watched with a mirror, but as luck would have it the oil shot out so quick it covered the mirror i was using before i could see anything. intend to try again with a bigger mirror and more light. will double check the sensor also.

thanks for the reply and i will post back when it's fixed or junked
(hopefully fixed)

any other ideas?
jim
 

Last edited by mr_barley; 11-19-04 at 04:25 AM.
  #6  
Old 11-19-04, 09:31 AM
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When you replaced the filter did you make sure the engine mating surface is clean, smooth and metal? Even if you tighten the filter by hand it should not be loose.

There is probably not much behind there that can leak that much oil, with the expection of the sensor and the filter. The rest of the engine does quite run on pressurized oil.

Are you sure it's not the sending unit? The only thing higher then that is the valve cover gasket, but oil should not "shoot" out of it.
 
  #7  
Old 11-20-04, 10:20 AM
mr_barley
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new info

look at it today with a friend. what's happening is the seal on the oil filter is blowing as soon as i start the car. someone said something about a "value"
to regulate the pressure?

any ideas?
 
  #8  
Old 11-20-04, 10:32 AM
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
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Sounds like the pressure regulator on the oil pump is stuck.

Involves replacing the oil pump.
 
  #9  
Old 11-20-04, 11:15 AM
mr_barley
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i was told there is a relief valve in the center post that the filter screws onto thats causing the problem.
that's the part i ordered from the gm dealer. do i really have to go into the oil pump?
 
  #10  
Old 11-20-04, 01:01 PM
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Not an GM expert, so it maybe located there.
 
  #11  
Old 11-20-04, 04:13 PM
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There is a plug located in the block in the oil filter area(boss)just above the filter make sure it's still in there.If you want a pic PM me your email the file is too large to post here.
 
  #12  
Old 11-20-04, 06:57 PM
mr_barley
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oil does not appear to be getting to the top of the engine. the oil filter gasket is fine. tried three different filters (was not sure the auto store gave me the right ones) in all cases there was only 1 gasket and the block area was clean. within
5 seconds of starting it appears that the oil filter gasket "gives way" and oil comes out at a high rate. if there is a plug in that area i suppose that it could be leaking in the filter and obscuring that fact as the filter is covered in oil.
i understand that this model 1996 lumina w 3100 v-6 has a valve of some sort
internal to the engine at or near the filter fitting. this was quoted as a $7.00
part from the dealer and i ordered one.any info on changing this would be appreciated.
 
  #13  
Old 11-21-04, 02:32 AM
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When you look at the pic I sent you will see the plug and it will need removed to pry the valve out.My guess is the plug is leaking or missing.
 
  #14  
Old 11-21-04, 07:30 AM
mr_barley
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Exclamation help

i need to remove that plug . is a special tool required? none of my sockets will fit also with the oil filter removed i see an opening at 11 o'clock that has a "dark core" and what looks like a nut. the dark core depresses about 1/4 or so very easily. there is no cap covering that. should there be? the "dark core" seems to have a hex or torx "hole" but i need to know the size seem rather large.
does it look like i'm on the right track?

questions
1 should that dark core have a cover?
2. should it easily depress 1/4 inch or so ?
3. what size and type tool removes the "core". socket or nut driver ?
4. if the cover is missing how to install new one.
 

Last edited by mr_barley; 11-21-04 at 09:40 AM.
  #15  
Old 11-22-04, 12:50 PM
mr_barley
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latest info

well here's the latest info.
i got a new fram oil filter from a different auto store. had my hopes up because it looked a little different than the carquest filter i had on. replaced the filter. made sure only 1 gasket. tightened properly. added 2 quarts oil (needs more but just testing). within 15 seconds of starting heard a "pop" and a gurgling noise.
was watching the filter and it appeared to move away from the block about an 1/8 inch or so. then the filter gasket bulged out from the block and oil loss at high rate.

i have so many people telling me different things.(not here) i am trying to decide what to do. right now due to loss of overtime etc. i am paycheck to paycheck. most places want $75 to tow and $60 to $100 to diagnose. if this car needs $1000 in repairs i'd rather look for another.

what bothers me is that oil never get to the engine top. to me it seems like there has to be some part between the oil filter and where the oil gets to the lifters that is obstructed. no books or manuals that i have access to show the oil path.

is this just a hopeless case?
 
  #16  
Old 11-22-04, 02:14 PM
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Looking at the pic the plug is removed with a pipe plug socket I don't know the size offhand but will attempt to get it for you tomorrow.The part located under the filter in the 11 oclock position is the releif valve.Have you changed it yet or even have it yet?It should depress as you described,is the gasket blowing out in that same area?Did you get the pic?
 
  #17  
Old 11-22-04, 06:13 PM
mr_barley
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i should get the part tuesday. (that's the square set screw type at 11'o clock.)
can that be removed w/o taking off the air conditioner compressor? at this point i will try that part and see what happens i'll post back and let you all know.

p.s. went to a wrecker yard today and looked at a 95 chevy w the 3100
had good access to visually inspect and the oil pump area looked the same.

(i don't think anything is missing)

also read some info from the melling oil pump web site about a stuck Pressure Relief Valve causing filter and or filter gasket failure. so i guess there's still hope


if you can post the "toolbit size" that would be great.


thanks again
 

Last edited by mr_barley; 11-22-04 at 07:25 PM. Reason: added info
  #18  
Old 11-23-04, 09:32 AM
mr_barley
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have the part

i have the part. now just need to find out how to change it. i can feel the "set screw" but don't know if it's square or hex or torx. or if a socket will fit or does it need a special tool. any help?



update.
had a mechanic over and he looked at my symptoms,
said he feels the bypass valve is fine. suspects pressure regulator in oil pump
bad. (this thing "pop" the gasket on a properly installed oil filter in under 10 seconds.

will probably scrap the car but might try changing the oil pump
the pump locally is about $60.00 so what's to lose,,lol

will keep u all updated and still appreciate any advice and tips you may have
 

Last edited by mr_barley; 11-23-04 at 05:43 PM.
  #19  
Old 11-24-04, 08:00 AM
Lindsey
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Somewhere in this life there should be awards for this kind of pain and suffering. Seems most problems are never black and white like in the book troubleshooting charts. Good luck and stay tuff.
 
  #20  
Old 11-24-04, 02:06 PM
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The tool needed to remove the plug is just a 1/4" ratchet with no socket I tried it today.You would then pop the valve out with a flat tipped screwdriver if you still intend on doing it.
 
  #21  
Old 11-29-04, 08:16 AM
mr_barley
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latest

have a mechanic friend who is taking the car and seeing if it is the valve we are talking about.this is like a columbo episode. another friend came over to help and may have stripped the 1/4 " plug. i was trying with a 1/4" "breaker" type wrench (about 5 " long) and couldn't turn it, i think he tried with an adapter and messed it up. a mechanic from a midas store that is his friend thinks it's somethng else. will post resolution when i get it. i thank all of you for the help i received here . YOU ARE ALL GREAT !

Jim

update. it was not the valve we are talking about. i guess the next step is
oil pump and pressure regulator (combined i think)
 

Last edited by mr_barley; 11-29-04 at 09:54 PM.
  #22  
Old 12-05-04, 07:02 PM
mr_barley
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Talking fixed

as it turned out a new oil pump took care of the problem.
thanks to all who took the time to respond.
 
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