'91 geo metro tranny problem(s)

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  #1  
Old 07-16-05, 08:17 PM
mr_barley
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Unhappy '91 geo metro tranny problem(s)

i have a 91 geo metro with the 3 speed auto. still haven't found the shift problem (lack of time and no "hiway" driving has been needed / done.
latest problem is:
after a short trip i noticed a puddle under the car near the drivers side just behind the front wheel. i also noticed a rubber grommet (it had a hole in it)
thought nothing of it at the time, about a mile down the road the trans started slipping. pulled it over and checked it out and trans fluid was coming out of a "hole" at the rear of the trans pan. this hole is about 1 to 2 inches above the lowest part of the pan and is not the "drain plug".
it was an emergency, so i bought a "rubber ball" and some fluid at a drug store. i cut a portion of the ball about 4x larger than the hole and about 1 1/2 inches long and "pressured" half of it into the hole. filled with fluid and it seems to be holding. (put on 150 miles so far and no leak).the only parts store that knew anything about a "plug" said i had to have the original so he can match it up. unfortunatly that's not available because when i looked at it when it fell out (if indeed the rubber thing i found was the plug) i didn't take it with me. any ideas on how to get this part? any ideas on consquences of my "makeshift" repair?

i also still need to find out why i dont shift to 3rd gear. i didn't fully understand (or locate) the connector to disconnect to put the trans in "dumb" mode.

one last item. the check engine light comes on at least once every trip. usually when at idle and usually goes off right after gas pedal is depressed.
(acts like a low oil light when really low on oil)

will the codes be "stored" on this model ? if so how to pull them. should i wait till it comes on next and try to pull them while it's still "on" ?


thanks in advance.. this is the best board !
 
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  #2  
Old 07-17-05, 12:35 PM
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I do recall your post from a while ago.

Regarding the "hole" you found - the only thing that I'm aware of in that location is the line pressure tap. The plug must have fallen off. Does the hole have threads. If so this would be it. The threads are for hooking up a pressure gague. Having this open is a sure gurantee for loosing fluid quickly since this is connected to the main line in the valve body from the oil pump and is at high pressure (around 70PSI in forward and around 200PSI in reverse). A tranny parts store should be able to sell you a replacement. In the meantime make sure your fix holds.

As for testing the tranny including the procedure I suggested - I would suggest you purchase the MX17 repair manual from ATSG. This explans all the diagnostic procedures as well as full repair and rebuld info. Here is the link - http://www.atsgmiami.com.

The check engine light may have nothing to do with the tranny problem. On the other hand it may detect the fact you are not shifting into third and set an error code. You will probably need a code reader to get the stored code but since it is earlier than a 96 it will not use OBD2 and I'm not sure what reader will work. Your local auto parts store may be able to help on this.
 
  #3  
Old 07-17-05, 08:09 PM
mr_barley
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thanks again for the reply

i tried to find the mx17 or a210 manual on that site but couldn't.
will try again tomm or might call the order in.

in the meantime i saw a couple of connectors at the transmission. any idea on how many wires or where they go so i can remove the right connector?

if i remove the wrong one, what might i expect?

also as luck would have it, my daughter worked at the location i originally lost the "plug". i have the old piece now and it looks like a rubber grommet about the size of a quarter. it has a hole in the center about the diameter of a pencil. to me it almost looks like a rubber "freeze" plug
thats missing the "bolt" to spread it. the rubber is very soft to the touch. i don't see any threads anywhere.
thanks for your patience.
 

Last edited by mr_barley; 07-17-05 at 08:10 PM. Reason: notification
  #4  
Old 07-17-05, 10:52 PM
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You need to buy the manual entitled "Sprint - Suzuki 3 Speed Transaxle". I think it can be found under Chevrolet or Import.

The connector you aer looking for is circular I believe and has 2 wires. Thinking about it either one would probably have the same effect. The other one is used to tell the computer what position the shift lever is in so that it can supply the right shift signals to the shift solenoids.

As for the plug - good thing you found it. Make sure it is seated securely so that it will not fall off again. I guess the threads are buried somwhat deeper and make not be easily visible.
 
  #5  
Old 07-18-05, 06:59 AM
mr_barley
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results

well here's the scoop. with the 2 wire disconnected it reverts as stated. i have reverse, 1st and second. at 45 mph i can tell no diff between "2" and "D". the cable you mentioned does move with the gas pedal. i propped the pedal at full throttle and looked (was by myself) cable did move approx 3/4 to 1 inch i think. i did note though, that ay full throttle i could still manually pull that cable another inch or so untill i heard a "click / tap / clunck" at full extention. is it possible that that cable needs to be reset?

is that an easy task? i take it that cable is to ensure that there is no tcc lockup at low rpm. (in other words putting into "D" in manual mode won't kill the engine.

thanks again for the help. budget got real tight here after the lumina i had blew the engine. 3 months after a intake gasket job. picked this up (metro) so i can continue to work and get paid.
 
  #6  
Old 07-18-05, 08:47 PM
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Based on what you describe I think the likely cause could be a stuck 2-3 shift valve. The good news is that the valve body can be removed without removing the tranny. You could try an additive like "lubegard red" first and see if this helps the situation. A faulty direct clutch would mean you would not have reverse. A shorted shift solenoid coil could also cause this but disconnecting the connector would mean it is not energized so it would rule it out also. This is my best guess but of course you will need to see the advice of a tranny expert.

The cable is connected to the throttle valve. The MX17 has no TCC. The throttle valve in older trannies that had no engine computer was very important since the "brains" of the tranny was purely implemeted by means of the hydraulics. The TV along with the govenor (what we now call the VSS) was used to set the shift points. This is not the case anymore but TVs and (also modulator valves which use engine vacuum to determine shift points) are used to regulate line pressure. The misaligned cable would probably modify the shift point and also result in jerky shifts but you should not lose a gear completely. Having said that it is best that it is set correctly. The cable should not be slack when the gas pedal is not depressed. There is a locknut that you can use the adjust the TV cable. Again you best bet is to get the book - all this is fully explained.

If you want to better understand how automatics work you can also get some suitable reading meterial since the service manual already assumes you know the basics.
 
  #7  
Old 07-19-05, 05:25 AM
mr_barley
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thank you

thanks for all the info. i will try the lubegard first.
the cable is not loose though. there is no slack. but i noticed that at full throttle (gas pedal depressed all the way and "propped" in that position, that i can manually still pull that cable almost the same amount that the pedal already pulled.(it's like the cable that goes in at the front of the trans has twice the travel it actually uses).

where on the trans is the 2/3 shift valve ?

thanks again for all your input !!
 
  #8  
Old 07-19-05, 06:12 PM
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No idea why you have the extra travel on the cable. Maybe it is by design? If it is not slack or too tight you should be fine.

The shift valve is inside the valve body. You will definitely need the manual if you plan on doing this since you will have to remove the valve body. This is done by dropping the oil pan, removing a few other things and then pulling out the valve body, separating the upper and lower body to get at the components. You will be getting into the interesting subject of rebuilding your tranny if your repairs start going this far.
 
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