Hardest Automotive question

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  #1  
Old 03-28-06, 10:30 AM
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Hardest Automotive question

Why is there signs at the gas station that say to turn the vehicle off when fueling?

Please have logic behind your reasoning to.
 
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  #2  
Old 03-28-06, 10:38 AM
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Something to do with gasoline fumes and sparking ignition components.

Why is there a warning on fan belt package to "stop engine before installing"?
 
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Old 03-28-06, 10:54 AM
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Thumbs down Hardest Forum question

Originally Posted by shaggy166
Please have logic behind your reasoning to.
Why start off with harsh attitude?
 
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Old 03-28-06, 11:24 AM
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Static electricity also adds into this. Thats why you are not supposed to fill plastic gas cans while in the back of your pick-up truck. Especially if it has a liner in it.
Gas fumes will also go to the ground and under your engine. Catalytic converters get really hot and can ignite these fumes. Kind of strange since they don't cool down that quick.
 
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Old 03-28-06, 11:45 AM
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static electricty doesn't care if the motor is running.


Why I think it is more dangerous to turn your car off. Here is a scenario someone fills a cansister and spills gas on the ground or leaky gas tank etc etc its a gas station, gas on the ground is not unheard off. Any how its not a very windy day. You pull in and park and starter is right above the small puddle of gas(especially in camaros and corvettes) You shut your vehicle off and fill up. Come out to your car start it and your fume soaked starter sparks internal which is normal. Now there is a small fire not that size matters because the last place I would want to be is a gas station with even a match lit. Even the smallest of fires can get huge really fast at a gas station.
 
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Old 03-28-06, 11:50 AM
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Also with the exhaust heat thing I cruise on the highway at 80mph all the time, then get off to get gas and get back on. I gurantee my exhaust is hotter than someone who is idling the entire time at the gas station.
 
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Old 03-28-06, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by shaggy166
Also with the exhaust heat thing I cruise on the highway at 80mph all the time, then get off to get gas and get back on. I gurantee my exhaust is hotter than someone who is idling the entire time at the gas station.
Its more the chance of sparks than heat. Did you get in trouble for not shutting off your engine at a gas station?
 
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Old 03-28-06, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by shaggy166
Why is there signs at the gas station that say to turn the vehicle off when fueling?

Please have logic behind your reasoning to.


I ask Why Not ? it's much safer , imagine someone not only not shutting off vehicle but also getting out of car and forgetting to put on park or use park brake.
Half of cars vibrate while engine is running which I don't think would be good for shut off valve on nozzle, or for the life of the hose/couplers.
In General is just makes a lot of sense to stop engine, try not to read reader's digest too much and stay off the green stuff
 
  #9  
Old 03-28-06, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by wreckwriter
Its more the chance of sparks than heat. Did you get in trouble for not shutting off your engine at a gas station?

I was thinking the spark thing to but using a starter that sparks low to the ground would be more dangerous than leaving it running.


as for the nozzle vibrating out if you are dispensing gas unattended that is against the law. But leaving your vehicle running is not. Some one is more likely to bump the handle and knock it out than for it to vibrate out.3

I discussed the gear thing above, you weigh it, a car bumping a car or something at idle speed or a fire at a gas station. I personally am more afraid of a lit match at a gas station than a car bumping a car.

A shut off valve turning off prematurally is also not a threat.

Also I am an engineer and think in a manner than there has to be a reason for everything or why would some one bother. If there is a question there is an answer. Just like a mechanic loves trouble shooting problems to find out why. As an engineer i ask the why this for a much wider range of things.
 
  #10  
Old 03-28-06, 12:40 PM
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There are risks either way. From time to time there are fire and explosion issues at gas stations. Its just one of those things. I would expect that people get paid well to study this issue and they've decided that engine off is safer.
 
  #11  
Old 03-28-06, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by wreckwriter
I would expect that people get paid well to study this issue and they've decided that engine off is safer.
Then they have not looked into it deep enough. It appears to be one of those that every one thinks is common sense but never actually evulate the situation. Also burnt gas fumes from a vehicle lower the conditions of the surrounds area of ignition do to the burnt gas's displacing merking gasoline vapor. So it would be a good idea to leave it running for that to.
 
  #12  
Old 03-28-06, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by wreckwriter
I would expect that people get paid well to study this issue and they've decided that engine off is safer.
By people do mean engineers like me
 
  #13  
Old 03-28-06, 01:08 PM
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I agree to disagree

To me is just makes common sense to shut off engine, less things can happen if engine is shut.
When was the last time a spark from a starter lit up gas on the floor ? Personally I never seen it ,also, do you propose this for diesel engines too ? Considering all the noise pollution ? ( although new chevy diesel's are quieter)
Shutting off the engine saves you a little money and saves the environment a little,It makes the guy next to you feel more at ease too when refueling.
 
  #14  
Old 03-28-06, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by LouBazooka
To me is just makes common sense to shut off engine, less things can happen if engine is shut.
When was the last time a spark from a starter lit up gas on the floor ? Personally I never seen it ,also, do you propose this for diesel engines too ? Considering all the noise pollution ? ( although new chevy diesel's are quieter)
Shutting off the engine saves you a little money and saves the environment a little,It makes the guy next to you feel more at ease too when refueling.
Good point Semi's usually don't shut off when fueling, I don't think gas stations would put up signs about courtesy and clutter up the area for the important signs. I am more than sure I can do a test to prove the starter spark thing. The false sense of ease doesn't work for me either.
 
  #15  
Old 03-28-06, 01:59 PM
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I've read, more than once, of people leaving the engine running and when they go inside to pay, their car goes down the road with a bad guy and maybe their kids in it.

As a retired engineer, I found that common sense often out weighed theoretical what ifs.
 
  #16  
Old 03-28-06, 02:43 PM
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Please have logic behind your reasoning to ask this as for the life of me I am fabergasted. (This is just my opinion.)
 
  #17  
Old 03-28-06, 02:43 PM
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Shaggy166,
Your question seemed familiar to me. After going back 46 pages of posts I finally found out why. We HAD a member named shottys who posed this very same question. He then proceded to put down everyone elses answers even though he didn't know the answer to the question either. Funny part is that he was also an Engineer. He mentioned that fact a lot, just like you. he argued with every other members reasons. Just like you. He argued SO much that he got banned from the site. I'll let you figure the rest out.
 
  #18  
Old 03-28-06, 03:29 PM
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Thanks majakdragon for doing your homework and letting us know that this thread is a dead end.:weird:
Some one has issues.
 
  #19  
Old 03-28-06, 03:30 PM
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how about this for logic and reality,

a freind of mine was refilling his ford escort while the engine was running, one of his kids was sitting in the front passenger seat, and put the car in gear, the gas nozzle was yanked, torn, broke the heck off of the pump ( thank god for the break away hoses they use). the car wound up backing into a dumpster.
the situation could of have been a lot worse. i'm sure that everyone here as also heard of recalls on vehicle that either drop out of gear,or go into gear by themselves. so the logic would be that if the vehicle is shut off, the potental for it to roll at a significant speed would be greatly reduced, if any at all. also consider the legal liability of this case, if it is posted that you turn off the engine before fueling and you don't well, who do you think the jury is going to award the case to?

barry
 

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  #20  
Old 03-28-06, 07:20 PM
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You beat me to it, majak; when I saw this thread I said, "we just did this routine a couple of months ago!!!".
 
  #21  
Old 03-28-06, 07:45 PM
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So let me get this straight and I have read those threads now. So you banned a guy because you could not come up with rock solid reason. Interesting By rock solid I mean no if's, and's, or but's.
 
  #22  
Old 03-28-06, 07:46 PM
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From the view of a fireman.

Many of the rules we have today are because of stupid people. Leting your engine Idle while filling gas is not an explosion hazard, but a stupid things can happen hazard such as a kid putting it in gear, or it popping into gear, or someone standing in the exhaust for 10 minutes and getting CO poisoning and collapsing. This rule is one of those something stupid happened, so we better protect the dumb people so they don't do it again rules.

No other reason.

:wmann3: Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.
 
  #23  
Old 03-28-06, 07:53 PM
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I guess the fireman thinks a car bumping a car at low speeds is more important than a fire of anysize at a gas station that could be caused from a starter being used. Especially on low cars like vettes and camaros.

I am done here good bye, and have fun admining your crummy site.
 
  #24  
Old 03-28-06, 09:22 PM
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shaggy, i think MythBusters did a series on gas station issues. I think ... but may be wrong ( I dropped out before I got my degree) they proved that static electricity from the car can cause explosions, they also proved that cell phones can cause explosions.

As I said, I may be wrong but I just could not resist chiming in.


Also, dont forget about our society. If they did not have the sign up to turn off your engine and something happened, how much money could you win from saying they were the experts and should have told you to turn off your car?

Good lawyers make business err on the side of caution!!!!
 
  #25  
Old 03-28-06, 10:53 PM
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Geez, gettin' a little tense out there...

Here are your answers from the Petroleum Equipment Institute.

http://www.pei.org/static/

I believe the source is about as legitimate as you are going to find. For the "engine running" question, scroll down to "Related Information" and then the bottom link to FAQ's. Several of the posts have touched on the answers, but obviously shaggy wasn't satisfied. This site also discusses the cell phone question.
 
  #26  
Old 03-29-06, 04:17 AM
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I saw the Mythbusters on the cell phone myth. They basically proved a cell phone would not cause an explosion. I don't recall if the segment also dealt with the engine running question. My suspicion is that it dates to as far back as when there may have actually been a danger of a spark being coughed out by the exhaust on the vehicle. I really think it's more a question of overall safety than it is a fire hazard. My last words on THIS subject.

Since shaggy has signed off and apparently left our crummy site in a huff, can we close this thread?
 
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Old 03-29-06, 05:17 AM
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I think the answers found in AFineFix's link answer the question(s) asked. Since the original poster left I am closing the thread.
 
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