1993 Chevrolet Astro XLT Van doesnt start

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Old 06-27-06, 09:19 AM
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Angry 1993 Chevrolet Astro XLT Van doesnt start

1993 Chevrolet Astro XLT Van doesnt start

I had a problem with the van sputtering and wanting to shut down until finally it did. I had no idea what the cause was so I began to investigate, I wasn’t getting any fuel to the engine, so estimated that it could be the fuel pump, this had been a problem before. So I went to the parts store and purchased the pump, screen, and filter and proceeded to install everything. After installing the accessories the van ran great, no trouble, a little more than an hour later we ran into a complete shut down while we were driving. Occasional sputtering first then it began to intermitten hesitate, and finally the vehicle just simply shut down while changing west bound direction to south bound home.
I can still hear the fuel pump engage and I have pressure between 65-71 lbs and I am getting power to the distributor and spark plugs, it just wont start? Hear something about an ecm or valve or sensor but have no idea where it is located, or if this is even the problem.
Any HELP would be rgeat my poor wife is stranded!
 
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  #2  
Old 06-27-06, 10:56 AM
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Is this throttle body injected, take the air lid off and look to see if they are spraying when starting.
 
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Old 06-27-06, 11:55 AM
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Smile

Great board, very informative and great people.

Our is fuel injected, I was able to start in again in the morning but it ran for only a short time. Now I think I will take your advice from another post and try to spray throttle cleaner from the air intake to see if that will fix the problem. The van did start again after a few minutes of sitting but eventually spit and sputtered and until it just shut down. i dont believe we have had a injector service done since we purchased it 4+ years ago. Iless expensive way works better though, will keep all advised.
 
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Old 06-27-06, 12:02 PM
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It depends if it is throttle body injected to wether you can do it that way. If it is multiport injected you need the straw attachment to can and loosen the hose around the throttle body and slip it in between the hose and throttle body and run the motor and do it. You should notice improvements almost immediately
 
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Old 06-27-06, 12:28 PM
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Question

hey Hotrod, just a quick thought, if my van had fuel injection as apposed to throttle injection the throotle injection cleaner may not be the solution. Would a fuel injector cleaner aditive be the likely solution to cleaing up the injectors or is not an issue with fuel injection systems.
 
  #6  
Old 06-27-06, 12:36 PM
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By using the throttle body cleaner spray into the throttle body we are not cleaning the injectors, we cleaning the backs of the valves and some carbon in the combustion chamber. The easiest way to clean fuel injector is put in fuel system cleaner in the gas tank. Make you get a bottle that is for the amount of gas in your tank otherwise if you dilute it, it does nothing.

The other way to clean injectors is through the 3m fuel rail hook up injector cleaner found at most shops.
 
  #7  
Old 06-27-06, 12:38 PM
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The 3m fuel injector rail cleaner hook up kit as I call it.

Almost always will unstick stuck pintles in injectors, with in the first minute or 2 the cleaning has begun.

If you had a stuck pintle your vehicle would feel like it is missing. Also the stuff you put in the tank I would do for 2-3 tanks of gas in a row.
 
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Old 06-27-06, 12:44 PM
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The reason why I am pointing the different types of injection is because the of the way the air monitored going in the vehicle.

With tbi looks like a carb but usaully has 2 big injectors, monitors air typically with a map sensor. This means the vehicle will run with the air hose or what ever is connected to the throttle body providing air disconnected.

With multi port injection you need to slip the straw between the hose and throttle body some and snap the throttle down spray before the engine gets to redline back it off and wait a bit. The engine will not run because most multiport injected motors monitor air going in right after the air filter so the engine will have more air going than the ecu thinks. But if you come across vehicles that have the screen on the throttle body you don't want to spary the stuff in like described because you could damage the mas air flow sensor. that one you need to use a fuel injection kit or bring it to a lube shop or autoshop cuz they will have the kit. usually cost around $50-70
 
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Old 06-27-06, 12:50 PM
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Great suggestions, I'll look into seeing if this solves the trouble, I did just check out to see if it would start, the van started and ran for about 25-30 min before slugging and shutting down.
I am thinking about trying this cleaning but I'm curiouse if there is there a throttle body cleaner better recomended than others? Also on the fuel additive, is this brand specific for dryer climates as apposed to climates with higher humidity?
 
  #10  
Old 06-27-06, 12:52 PM
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throttle body cleaner is my preference some say carb cleaner is good to use to. brand don't matter for the spray. My preference of pour in tank stuff is, outlaw and redline.

Climates don't matter.
 
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Old 06-27-06, 12:57 PM
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you should recheck for spark at the spark plugs should have a good spark and be capable of jumping a 1/2 inch gap.
does fuel pressure remain steady or does it bleed down in a few seconds after turning the key off it should hold the pressure for several minutes without noticing any drop around 65 is normal needs 55 psi minimum to start the engine, it is central port injected.
then you should probably check injector pulse but if it will start on carb cleaner for a second after spraying a little down the intake then would suspect a fuel problem you will need to remove the air cleaner and air intake hose to be able to spray some down the intake.
 
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Old 06-27-06, 01:05 PM
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You haven't got back to us if it is spraying fuel in when starting, or if this is TBI for sure. whats the word. That fuel pressure reading seems high for tbi. And the post you read in another forum was for a different but similiar problem and is never a bad thing to do. Always worth shot since you will have the stuff and everyone is saying spray the junk in.
 
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Old 06-27-06, 04:03 PM
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The fuel is spraying in but, I only get about 15-20 min run time out of it and I probably need to pick up some throtle cleaner, also going to add some fuel additive to make sure to cover that as well. Sorry about the long delay but the power went out and we just got back on line.
 
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Old 06-27-06, 04:29 PM
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Hey hotrod,

Got some of that carborator cleaner and shot some in the air intake, had my wife keep and hold the gas and things are looking better, tthe idle runs smother and I think that I need to pick up some more, seems to be a little hesitant on starting up but it is starting again and this time its not at random. I am still going to wait and see how it holds up.
I was curiouse about the erg sensor or valve how often is it recomended that this be changed, and is this located at the top of the intake that can be seen poking through the top of the intake tubeing? I'm wondering if we should change this since we have put in a new fuelpump, screen, and fuel filter that it would be wise to fit this into a routine tune up or if its not that repetative a need?
 
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Old 06-27-06, 04:49 PM
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Replacement of your EGR valve is not a routine maintenance item. You would only change it if it went bad.

By the way, the valve usually doesn't go bad...it's more commong for the passageway between the valve and the intake to become clogged. That could probably stand to be cleaned periodically. Here's a picture for location reference courtesy of ALLDATA:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...k/Misc/egr.jpg

Originally Posted by CruiseLS7
Hey hotrod,

Got some of that carborator cleaner and shot some in the air intake, had my wife keep and hold the gas and things are looking better, tthe idle runs smother and I think that I need to pick up some more, seems to be a little hesitant on starting up but it is starting again and this time its not at random. I am still going to wait and see how it holds up.
I was curiouse about the erg sensor or valve how often is it recomended that this be changed, and is this located at the top of the intake that can be seen poking through the top of the intake tubeing? I'm wondering if we should change this since we have put in a new fuelpump, screen, and fuel filter that it would be wise to fit this into a routine tune up or if its not that repetative a need?
 
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Old 06-27-06, 04:57 PM
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EGR is not a regular item to replace, you do them as they go.

Note to guy above I would suggest you get that pic down in a forum as popular as this one, that is copyrighted, it is good help but not suggested in a forum as popular as this.

You check their passage for blockage and for vacuum leaks with a hand vacuum pump.

These are instructions for changing testing it.
http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker...3d8004b359.jsp
 
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Old 06-27-06, 05:38 PM
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Unhappy

Hotrod,

Got some more carborator cleaner and the engine intake was doing well then as I was spraying it in and the idle was high the engine seemed to e strugling to run and then chugged to a sow stop while trying to stablize it with the gas pedal.
After this the engine woud not run ad have to et it sit for a bit before we can see if it will start or not. The fuel injector cleaner is the OUTLAW super concentrated fuel injector cleaner. The carborator cleaner was a standard brand cleaner. Any sugestions I've run out of options to complete. I wish I had more of the testing equipement to do someadditional testing, my nieghbor has a volt meter thats about the extent of the electronic tools on hand.
 
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Old 06-27-06, 05:47 PM
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don't address your posts to me they are to every one.

If you spray to much in it will kill the motor sometimes you have to let it sit. That is why when it starts to die you have to stop spraying it. You have to have the rpms up when spraying it in not idling. After your are done spraying keep the engine speed up for about 30secs and don't be afraid to rev it to get the rest of the crap out. You can try to dry it out by disconnecting the wires to the fuel injectors and crank it for 5sec and then let it sit for 10 and repeat. Then reconnect wires to injectors and see if that will work. Don't be afraid to hold the throttle down if you need to, to start it.

So I would take it the injectors are spraying fuel in, since you have it running before. is this correct.

If you had a code for the egr you better check that out.

Idle air control motor could also be a suspicion. Does it run fine the rpms are up (gas pressed) or does it just not idle

Is the check engine light on.

Hold the engine rpms constant and spray around the intake manifold gasket where it meets the block and let us know if that changes the rpms to.
 

Last edited by hotrodder89; 06-27-06 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 06-27-06, 08:17 PM
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Yes, the injectors are spraying fuel in, and I am able to get the engine to idle, the trouble starts when I'm trying t accelerate after it has run for about 10-15 min while driving up and down my road. I even ran it in 1st gear to keep a consistant high RPM this worked well until it got to the point that it seemed to stave for fuel or maybe even air, not sure. From there I try to play it safe and turn around and head home.
No Code reader for the egr unless checker or autozone rents them.
Idle air control motor could also be a suspicion. Does it run fine the rpms are up (gas pressed) or does it just not idle it seems to not have any trouble idling until I drive it .5 .75 miles then it begins to starve for gas or air the same way a car jerks front and back on a standard when some is learning to use a clutch and gas combination.
Is the check engine light on. the check engine light is not on but brake light is on and has been that way since we purchased it.
I do notice that when I turn the key to start the chek engine light stays on and the ar bag light flashes 6 times, not sure if that says or means anything.
Also near the exhaust tail pipe there was a 3"x3.25" brown spot that had been dripping from my exhaust. This I imagine is some of the build up of carbons you were talking about?
I will try some more but at the last stage I was'nt able to start again so I am letting it rest for a few minutes 5-10 then I will try again with the intake and using the carborator cleaner and give you an update.
 
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Old 06-27-06, 08:25 PM
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The first time you did it is really all you need to do it. so if your idling fine we rule out the idle air control motor. So the vehicle needs to warm up before the problem starts and you are breaking up at high rpms you are saying.

I am even questioning the fuel pump you got it could be bad.

Due what the guy stated above and monitor the fuel pressure while driving if you can.

Could be, not getting enough fuel, fuel pressure regulator going bad, ignition module not pulling enough timing, or map sensor. does this problem happen you accelerate before 10 min of driving.

Check to see if the exhaust smells funky like sweet, or like burnt oil for the heck of it.

I recommended spraying the cleaner in with an old poorly running engine because it is cheap and worth a try and does the trick many times, and if it doesn't work usually improves gas mileage some.

This problem is not standing out with any signs yet which kinda sucks for us forum people.
 

Last edited by hotrodder89; 06-27-06 at 09:00 PM.
  #21  
Old 06-27-06, 08:59 PM
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Another thing came to mind that I recall now some GM TBI motors with the breaking up when warm at high rpms but were fine at low rpms and idling.

easy test. Leave the lid off (or flip it upside down) forthe air filter and drive it down the block.

If it starts to sputter just turn back. Let me know what happened.
 

Last edited by hotrodder89; 06-27-06 at 09:20 PM.
  #22  
Old 06-28-06, 09:07 AM
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Arrow

Well everyone I gave this a try on the easy test, where I left the lid lid off and drove it around the block.

The vehicle did stagger but on the pic up acceleration but as for the idle ode it ran well no real troube. The cruising speeds were spuradic and seemed to be more sluggish than jumpy as it was yesterday. This could also could be atributed to early morning I'm guessing? We'll see how it performs this afternoon, we're expecting temps in the 90+. I am going to be a little bold and try to drive it and see how it will do for a few miles at this point could'nt be to bad, aside form having to wait for things to cool.
I will keep everyone posted.
 
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Old 06-28-06, 09:15 AM
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Hmmmm you may want to look into that egr valve to usually you will have a hard start if that is stuck open and bad idle. now it is studdering under accel but idles find possibly clogged cat from that sympton, you may want to try to unscrew the O2 so exhuast can get out that way see if it runs better on accel.

You can put the air filter back on to, you blew that possible problem out of the water.
 
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Old 06-28-06, 09:52 AM
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well all,

That was a fun trip, I'm back now and did'nt go to great shut down on me and had to wait for it to rest or cool not sure which but now were back.
Saw the other information, wish I could have checked that before I left so I will look into that. Tell me what the O2 is I am assuming that the cat is the catalitic converter, its located on top on the pipe just before the muffler if I'm not mistaken. I'm sorry for my lack of terminollogy, it seems that you could also be talking about the same two units??? I'll wait to hear back, thanks for the help.
 
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Old 06-28-06, 10:21 AM
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The o2 senor will be sticking out of the exhaust pipe on the side with a wire coming out of the top, near the engine. The catalyst is the first big can looking thing your exhaust goes in to.

After this I am going to have to throw in the towel. My forum help is about beyond what I can do with out being there to see how the car is acting and sounding first hand.

You may want try an egr block off plate to they are easy to find at parts stores. That would help to rule out a bad egr for sure if your not familiar with testing them.
 
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Old 06-28-06, 12:47 PM
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Arrow

Well I decided to pick up a fuel pump and injector gauge & test kit. I'll test the van and see if the fuel presure jumps around or if it stays constant. Not trying to plug habor freight but they had the kit for $14.99 after this my wife is not going to let me buy anymore tools this month.
We'll keep you posted as to the success or failure.
 
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Old 06-28-06, 12:58 PM
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if you look at your vin number on the drivers side dash pad through the windshield and count to the 8th one you will have eaither a z or a w.
if its a z it is tbi and you can see the injectors and see them spraying fuel but 65 to 71 psi is way to high for fuel pressure for a tbi wich is why I assumed it was cpi as tbi pumps can usually only put out about 30 psi max specs are 9-13 psi regulated.
if its a w it is cpi and fuel pressure is normally around where you stated but you cant see the injector spraying on this engine you cant even see the injector without pulling the upper intake off and the egr valve is electronic not vacum operated and no do not block it off.
you do need to do more testing when the vehicle will not start or dies as checking fuel pressure and spark is fairly useless if you do it while the engine is running ok.
 
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Old 06-28-06, 01:10 PM
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Ya I pointed that fuel pressure thing out as high way above but that is why I asked in this one right away if it was tbi. Even if it is cpi that is still high.

He keeps avoiding that question.

It sounds like he has tbi from the way he describes things, I recall he stated he saw fuel going in.
 
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Old 06-28-06, 02:23 PM
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Not trying toavoid the question just giving the information that was given to me by a machaninc who loked at it. At the time didnt know much about this kind of thing so I just went by what he said.
Well took the van for a test drive, today hot 98 degree's today good day for a test. Well first thing is I hooked up the fuel vacume gauge to test for preasure on start we held 60 while it was turned to starrt. When the van was idling, or today trying to idle, we were at 48-50 as I was driving we were between 40 and 50+ jumping back and forth with no consistant reading. I cheked this at the most convient spot were I could still drive and monitor the gauge which was on top of the engine left of the distributor cap.
As for the CPI to TPI I was told by the guy at auto zone that if my vin 8th digit on my vin number was a W I had a CPI. So I appologize for any inaccuracies on information I'm not trying to misslead anyone I'm just trying to fix my wifes van as inexpensive as possible. The van has some huge casted, possibly alluminum colored cover with rounded sections.
 
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Old 06-28-06, 02:44 PM
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Sounds like CPI and with fluctuations like that in pressure possibly the fuel pressure regulator,

cpi is very expensive. I would have the mechanic that looked at it check over the cpi
 
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Old 06-29-06, 02:27 AM
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I think you got a bad fuel pump myself you are losing pressure while under load and it eventually quits you completly after driving awhile until the pump cools off and then it will restart back up.
not sure what brand pump you bought but it probably is still under warranty usually use only a/c delco pumps in gm vehicles as have had to many problems with other brands.
 
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Old 06-29-06, 06:19 AM
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Its hard to say because fuel pressure in those systems can vary quite a bit but should never go down to 45 if I can recall right. If he has CPI. Fuel pressure regulators are common in CPI
 
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Old 06-29-06, 06:38 AM
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they do go bad sometimes have changed alot of them because they was leaking which would make the engine run rich and foul out the passenger side plugs to the point that the engine would only be running on 3 cylinders, have never had to change one due to incorrect fuel pressure.
 
  #34  
Old 07-05-06, 05:40 AM
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I had a '96 Dodge Neon that would do something similar, after about 20 miles it just sputtered and died. I would wait five minutes and it would start up fine. I went over the fuel, emission control, and ignition systems with a fine tooth comb and all the computer codes could tell me were that the engine died. It turned out to be a bad camshaft position sensor causing a timing problem, but only after it ran a while.
 
  #35  
Old 07-05-06, 02:55 PM
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cruiseLS7

You have a bad fuel pressure regulator. This use to be an expensive item because you had to purchase the complete system. A new replacement regulator has just been released. I just found about it and have not tested it yet. It is available thru RockAuto.com. This is a common problem for a W coded 4.3 GM with CPI
 
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Old 07-05-06, 03:09 PM
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s10den

The replacement regulator is found at the website not Rock Auto http://www.1aauto.com/1A/Drivetrain/...2560000/403621

Sry for the bad response. The above is correct!
 
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Old 07-05-06, 03:09 PM
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s10den

The replacement regulator is found at this website not Rock Auto http://www.1aauto.com/1A/Drivetrain/...2560000/403621

Sry for the bad response. The above is correct!
 
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