hot shot

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  #1  
Old 07-17-06, 05:37 PM
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hot shot

anyone use hot shot to retrofit an r12 system. I just ordered some and am going to evacuate the r134 out of my retrofitted R12 system. I read that hot shot is supposed to get colder than R12. The reason I am doing this is because in traffic idling the air conditioning isn't very cold. All my pressures are fine and system is operating normally when I am on the highway or cruising above 15mph everything is fine so basically sounds like Retrofit (crummy r134)problem. Any one use hot shot (414B) yet, and post their experiences with it. I will get back after I change to the new freon. It cost $1 more a can than R134 and is supposed to get way way colder.

Should my pressures be about the same as before when I fill it.
 
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  #2  
Old 07-17-06, 05:52 PM
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Main reason why I ordered it, is because they say its better than R12 which I remember getting to cold, and with R134 won't get cold enough. So I also ordered it to experiment with and see if I want to go this route instead of retrofitting other people's vehicles. Plus no concern for oil changes to pag or ester all oils are compatible. I think I read the high side pressures are lower than R12 to if I am not mistaken. R134 I know is much higher.

If this stuff really does work miracles I will post back.

Besides lower operating pressures I am reading it can prolong compressor life.

Also I am assuming with lower pressures that means less power needed to drive the compressor
 
  #3  
Old 07-17-06, 07:16 PM
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hotshot

i really don't know of the conversion of r-12 to 134-a to hot shot.
it is, as far as what i know only been done as a direct replacement for r-12, not a back and forth type of thing. i do know that hot shot is very expensive, way more than the r-134a. this is where i get a little, well,,,, questioning your ability, not your know how, but , are you certified to work on automotive refridgerant systems? since you are questioning pressures i can't give you an answer be cause it might be construed as a violation of the e.p.a.
laws, which are a federal offense. please post back, let us know how this project is going, we are here to help, but not break the law.

barry
 
  #4  
Old 07-17-06, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by snuckers99
Main reason why I ordered it, is because they say its better than R12 which I remember getting to cold, and with R134 won't get cold enough. So I also ordered it to experiment with and see if I want to go this route instead of retrofitting other people's vehicles. Plus no concern for oil changes to pag or ester all oils are compatible. I think I read the high side pressures are lower than R12 to if I am not mistaken. R134 I know is much higher.

If this stuff really does work miracles I will post back.

Besides lower operating pressures I am reading it can prolong compressor life.

Also I am assuming with lower pressures that means less power needed to drive the compressor
snuckers99,
I hate to tell you but there is no magic bullet or snake oil when it comes to auto A/C. If your system wasn't cooling with its intended refrigerant, it's not going to cool any better with HotShot! And if it has a leak, HotShot will destroy your compressor in no time flat.

HotShot is a blend made up primarily of R22 with other refrigerants added to carry the mineral oil which is used in R-12 systems. Because the different refrigerants in the HotShot blend have dissimilar temperature/pressure characteristics, if you have (or) develop a leak in your system, the refrigerants that make up the blend will leak out of the system at different rates. Eventually you end up with a changed blend that might still cool but not carry any oil back to the compressor. When/if that happens, you can kiss your compressor goodbye! Also, you can't simply top off HotShot when it leaks out because the blend has been changed. The only option is to recover what's left, and recharge into an empty system. And if you accidentally overcharge your system; same thing, you can't recover part of the charge because it will change the blend. The fix for an overcharge is recover and recharge with virgin HotShot.

Another problem is that R22 blends like HotShot require barrier hoses. If yours is an older R12 system, chances are it doesnít have them.

Your best bet is to flush the system, replace all the o-rings and use NyLog assembly lube on them, add ester oil, pull a deep vacuum and charge with R134a.
Good luck,
Phil
 
  #5  
Old 07-18-06, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by brentwoodpmg
i do know that hot shot is very expensive, way more than the r-134a.
$12.95 for a 10oz same as r134 depending where buy it

Originally Posted by brentwoodpmg
this is where i get a little, well,,,, questioning your ability, not your know how, but , are you certified to work on automotive refridgerant systems?
You have to have an EPA license to buy hot shot. I know the procedure to wok on AC just fine. just not sure how to look up system pressure when running I can always ball park it to %80, and if you change oil on a new vehicle you have never seen, and ask us if we know how much oil to expect it to take, I also will assume you don't know how to change oil.

Originally Posted by brentwoodpmg
since you are questioning pressures i can't give you an answer be cause it might be construed as a violation of the e.p.a.
laws, which are a federal offense. please post back, let us know how this project is going, we are here to help, but not break the law.

barry
Its not rocket science to say what the pressures should be around like with R134 low side ballpark 40 on a hot summer day. I will post in a A/C forum with more educated people on hotshot. And stating a pressure is not against the law.

If your so concerned about the law, the forum shouldn't be telling people to top off AC when needed, the forum should just state if you need freon you have to go to a shop and have a nitrogen leak down test perform. It is illegal to top off a system with a known leak.

Then again we could say I didn't know it had a leak, didn't think that would be the reason why I needed to add refrigerant.
 

Last edited by snuckers99; 07-18-06 at 11:59 AM.
  #6  
Old 07-18-06, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Philossifer
snuckers99,
I hate to tell you but there is no magic bullet or snake oil when it comes to auto A/C. If your system wasn't cooling with its intended refrigerant, it's not going to cool any better with HotShot!
I had R12. it got converted to R134, thats why it ain't getting as cold as it used to
Originally Posted by Philossifer
And if it has a leak, HotShot will destroy your compressor in no time flat.
This is true if it fractionizes
Originally Posted by Philossifer
HotShot is a blend made up primarily of R22 with other refrigerants added to carry the mineral oil which is used in R-12 systems. Because the different refrigerants in the HotShot blend have dissimilar temperature/pressure characteristics, if you have (or) develop a leak in your system, the refrigerants that make up the blend will leak out of the system at different rates. Eventually you end up with a changed blend that might still cool but not carry any oil back to the compressor. When/if that happens, you can kiss your compressor goodbye!
This is true if it fractionizes
Originally Posted by Philossifer
Also, you can't simply top off HotShot when it leaks out because the blend has been changed. The only option is to recover what's left, and recharge into an empty system. And if you accidentally overcharge your system; same thing, you can't recover part of the charge because it will change the blend. The fix for an overcharge is recover and recharge with virgin HotShot.
true also
Originally Posted by Philossifer
Another problem is that R22 blends like HotShot require barrier hoses. If yours is an older R12 system, chances are it doesn’t have them.
Same requirement for R134, good thing reputable mechanics will replace the hoses
Originally Posted by Philossifer
Your best bet is to flush the system, replace all the o-rings and use NyLog assembly lube on them, add ester oil, pull a deep vacuum and charge with R134a.
Good luck,
Phil
I already have the r134 in there I want colder air. like when I had R12 before it got retrofitted.
called ICOR they said it doesn't matter if PAG oil is in there.
 
  #7  
Old 07-18-06, 11:43 AM
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So some one going to state what the pressure should be in the system or will I keep getting the run around.
 
  #8  
Old 07-18-06, 12:23 PM
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Sorry Snuckers but we don't give refrigerant side advise in the forums.
 
  #9  
Old 07-18-06, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by snuckers99
So some one going to state what the pressure should be in the system or will I keep getting the run around.
snuckers,
You called ICOR about the oil in your A/C system, why didn't you ask them about pressures?

Just outa' curiosity, do you know how to charge an A/C system?
The pressure readings change depending on the type of refrigerant used, the ambient temperature and the relative humidity. There is no "What the pressure should be in the system" it just doesn't work that way!

Sorry but no refrigerant side advice is given out in the forum. With zeotropic blends (like HotShot) you're dealing with two refrigerants that have totally different temperature/pressure relationships. Itís like having two temperature/pressure curves for one refrigerant. And Iím not going into that; not enough time or space to explain it!

Sorry refrigerant side advise is not give in the forums.
Then when you're all done, say a good long prayer that you're compressor doesn't start clanking in a few days!
Good luck,
Phil
 

Last edited by mattison; 07-18-06 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Refrigerant handling advice is not given in the forums.
  #10  
Old 07-18-06, 01:14 PM
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the pressure do vary according to temp so knowone can really give you exact pressure Refrigerant side advise removed.
 

Last edited by mattison; 07-18-06 at 02:14 PM. Reason: Refrigerant side advise not allowed.
  #11  
Old 07-18-06, 02:17 PM
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We do not give charging instruction in the forums. All we need is for an un-educated person following them and having a high pressure hose blowing up in their face. To add to that legally you must be epa certified/ section 609 MVAC to work on the refigeration part of the automobile a/c.

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