04 taurus trouble codes retrieved....

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  #1  
Old 08-09-06, 05:37 PM
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04 taurus trouble codes retrieved....

2004 taurus DOHC 3.0l 69k changed fuel filter 2 weeks ago

I posted last week about my Taurus engine light coming on. 3 days later it went off and all was good.

Today on my way home cruising at 55mph the car started losing RPMs and slowed down. I slowed down and got it to go 25MPH. I stopped, shut it off, restarted and it ran better, but still started cutting out at around 3000rpm....engine light came on. went home and shut it off. half hour later drove it 5 miles away to a buds house with the light still on and ran fine, scanned it, no codes found but found 2 codes stored...


P0191 fuel rail pressure range/performance
P0455 EVAP control system gross leak detected



Cleared codes and drove to the gas station to put more gas in(I had 1/8 tank when all this took place) and it ran perfect and engine light stayed off. Any clues on what would make this happen for just a short time and so severely? I thought bad gas but this was after a full tank filled up 3 days ago.


I am totally baffled...and I really dont understand the EVAP leak detected...checked the fuel cap again, on tight.


help? please? thanks so much for any replies


ps...scanned with one of these...if this helps any
http://www.etoolcart.com/ProductImag...C-3466EU-L.jpg
 
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  #2  
Old 08-09-06, 10:40 PM
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The evap system is what recycles the gasoline fumes so that they don't get released into the atmosphere (it's an emissions thing). The evap system uses vacuum to do its thing and the code indicates that you have a big vacuum leak somewhere. The evap system starts at the gas tank and goes all the way up to the engine. You could have a leak anywhere from the front of the vehicle to the rear.

Listen for a sucking/whistling sound and see if you can locate the leak by ear. I imagine that this leak is also affecting the fuel pressure regulator (which is also vacuum controlled). Due to the large drop in vacuum, the regulator is being prevented from operating correctly.

Another thing that can cause that evap code is a broken evap canister. This is usually a black box underneath the rear of the vehicle near the gas tank. It will have several lines/hoses coming in and out of it. A cracked canister is also considered a vacuum leak. These canisters can often get cracked/damaged from road debris so check it carefully.

I would suggest finding and fixing the evap leak and then reset the check engine light and drive the vehicle. Fixing the evap leak may take care of the fuel pressure problem at the same time...or you could just have two entirely different problems at the same time (if you're unlucky like me that is!).

Post back your results btw so we can learn from your experience. I hope this post helps you out.
 
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Old 08-10-06, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by davzack
The evap system is what recycles the gasoline fumes so that they don't get released into the atmosphere (it's an emissions thing). The evap system uses vacuum to do its thing and the code indicates that you have a big vacuum leak somewhere. The evap system starts at the gas tank and goes all the way up to the engine. You could have a leak anywhere from the front of the vehicle to the rear..
thanks for the reply....
I think maybe the evap code was from the RPMs jumping up and down so fast? dont hear any noises...

update for today...

so this morning, I got on the interstate and drove 2800rpm at 75mph. not a hiccup at all. take the offramp that is 1 mile away from work and as soon as I dropped rpms, it happened again, but not as bad. started cutting out so I coasted in neautral and held 'er to the boards...revved 4000 and dropped to 3000 and up and down. ..no codes thrown

my guess is 2 things the pump is going, or the pump sock is full of crap.
 
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Old 08-14-06, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by davzack
Post back your results btw so we can learn from your experience. I hope this post helps you out.

update....as far as I can tell....there must have been some water in my tank because everything is running ok now. I had gotten a tank of gas from work a week or so before hand and found out that there was some water in this batch(gas is pulled from salvaged cars).

I filled up again with a bottle of heet. Hopefully it doesnt happen again. Just incase my pump fails, I got one from a low mileage car in the yard....just in case


thanks again!
 
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Old 08-14-06, 07:59 AM
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how much fuel did it take to fill the tank and how much does it hold?? irregardless of the guage indication, it sounds like the pump was sucking wind and causing variation in the pressure...hence the p0191 plus the problem seems to have resolved with a fill up.

the gross evap leak is/was most likely a gas cap left loose or off OR the cap may be defective. other causes of gross evap leak detected could be hoses (evap system) or solenoid failure...a cap problem is the most common cause tho.
 
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Old 08-15-06, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by carguyinva
how much fuel did it take to fill the tank and how much does it hold?? irregardless of the guage indication, it sounds like the pump was sucking wind and causing variation in the pressure...hence the p0191 plus the problem seems to have resolved with a fill up..
That was my first thought but the problem popped up again the next day with 3/4 full tank. with the fuel pick-up on the bottom, that shoots that theory.

Originally Posted by carguyinva
the gross evap leak is/was most likely a gas cap left loose or off OR the cap may be defective. other causes of gross evap leak detected could be hoses (evap system) or solenoid failure...a cap problem is the most common cause tho.
I would tend to think that the cap would throw a code for more than a couple minutes and then stop. Also strange that this would only happen when a batch of bad gas is introduced into the equation.

If any further problems pop up...I will update. But for now, everything is AOK!!
 
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Old 08-15-06, 08:57 AM
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bad gas didn't cause a gross evap leak code...a leak did and it's possible that it is/was intermittant.

and it's not your typical "vacuum" leak...the evap system tests the integrity of itself by putting the fuel tank and related hoses under a small negative pressure (using engine vacuum) then isolates the system by closing the vent solenoid valve and times the decay rate using the fuel tank pressure sensor reading to determine a large leak. small leaks are determined using a postitive pressure method

OBD II is tight...if it detected a leak, there probably was one
 
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Old 08-15-06, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by carguyinva
bad gas didn't cause a gross evap leak code...
I agree 100%

Originally Posted by carguyinva
a leak did and it's possible that it is/was intermittant.
possible that its a leak, but I am not convinced for some reason.




Originally Posted by carguyinva
and it's not your typical "vacuum" leak...the evap system tests the integrity of itself by putting the fuel tank and related hoses under a small negative pressure (using engine vacuum) then isolates the system by closing the vent solenoid valve and times the decay rate using the fuel tank pressure sensor reading to determine a large leak. small leaks are determined using a postitive pressure method


Here is my theory.....

Got a tank of gas with excessive water in it. Water is mixed with the fuel at first and runs fine. Car sits a couple days and gas/water starts to separate. Water on bottom by pickup tube, gas on top. Pump picks up some of the water and sends it thru the system, engine spikes rpms...engine sees low vacuum/high vacuum readings and throws code. next day after fillup, engine starts sysptom again for a minute but doesnt throw code....

since then, no hiccups at all.


I appreciate all your info....and under normal conditions, I agree with you. but the timing of the gas, and clearing up of the problem after the tank is run thru, make me think its just water.


I know you are probably right now with this post, but if this happens again, I will post in this thread and accept that you are correct. For my sake, I hope I don't have to. Chasing a leak down on one of these has to be a pain
 
  #9  
Old 08-15-06, 12:10 PM
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Try disconnecting one of the fuel lines and pump about a pint fluid into a glass jar. The water should separate and stay at the bottom. I've been there a number of times in the past. This way you'll know for sure.

For each water problem I had in the past, adding alcohol to the gas did nothing. The fix was to remove the fuel tank, dry it out, drain the lines and carburator, button everything back up and add fresh, clean gas.
 
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