84 Toyota Celica water in oil

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  #1  
Old 08-26-06, 12:39 PM
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84 Toyota Celica water in oil

I am working on fixing this problem when I talked to a guy that
has the same problem in a truck who has replaced the head twice.
This has me thinking it is not a blown head gasket and since I had
the head serviced it is not cracked. I am thinking it could be the
seal between the waterpump and the timing cover since I had a
problem with one through bolt having RTV on it. I can't find any
publications or posts concerning this on the internet and know this
is a typical problem for the 22REC engine. Any takers out there?
jeff
 

Last edited by ewizard; 08-27-06 at 07:28 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-26-06, 07:44 PM
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22 Rec

Jeff:

The leakage at the point you're talking about isn't a typical problem of that engine. The blown head gaskets and warpage of the head is much more common though.

With an aluminum head on a cast block expansion differences between the two metals was thought be problematic on that combination. Even in light of this that is a remarkable engine for performance range as well as longivity.

As for what you're talking about, that leakage is a possibility. But if you can torque the bolts sufficiently, I would lightly coat the surfaces with high temp gasket sealer and you should be OK.

When you said the head was serviced was it checked for warpage? If it meets all specs, when you install it pay particular attention to the cleaning of the block surface and the area around the water transfer ports. Put a touch of high temp sealer in any nicks you find right before you assemble.

Be sure to follow the torquing specs and as well as the sequence of head bolt tightening. Also do it in stages of one third torque sequences and don't cut corners. Although most head gasket sets will say it doesn't require post installation torquing, I would check the head bolts again after about five thousand miles on that engine.

Hope this helps,

Good luck
 
  #3  
Old 08-26-06, 10:07 PM
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Smile water in oil problem!!

Well I have experienced this problem quite a few times on the toyota 22r engines that what happens is the timing chain being worn can wear into the timing cover and may cause a small crack that allows water/coolant to enter through the engine timing cover. Which in turn allows water to get into the oil.the timing cover assy must be removed from the engine and can be repaired or replaced. you can remove the valve cover and use a flash light to peak down where the timing chain and guides are and pressure test the cooling system and see if water is entering that way before disassembling the timing cover to verify. Well maybe this will help. good luck.
 
  #4  
Old 08-27-06, 07:15 AM
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Timmy has a good point, Jeff. Make sure you replace the chain guides along with the chain and gears. Also check the tensioner for wear and functionality.

Hope this helps
 
  #5  
Old 08-27-06, 07:40 AM
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I also noticed the chain guide driver side missing and grooves in the timing cover and head.
I bought a new timing set (with guides and tensioner) and assume the installation is typical (alignment marks pointed at each other).
This is my first overhaul in many years and am taking it slowly and carefully to get it right. I heard also that the 22rec is a good engine save the leak problem.
It sure is a learning experience.
I looked til I found the head bolt torque spec (53-63) yet when I pulled them earlier they did not feel that tight.
I agree that a post check is needed but would an extra ten pounds hurt or help? I also assume the sequence is spiral in four stages?
I also have a broken bolt in the rear of the head I haven't been able to get out.

Thanks guys for your input.
 

Last edited by ewizard; 08-27-06 at 07:58 AM.
  #6  
Old 08-27-06, 11:26 AM
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As far as the extra torque, I typically would only go within the range of the specs. I couldn't say if 10 lbs over would make a difference either way.

The bolt tightening sequence is significant on that engine. I would get the specific tightening sequence for it.

I just checked my old manual for that information. Standing at the front of the engine front to rear. Left side - 10, 4, 2, 5, 7. Right side, also front to rear - 8, 6, 1, 3, 9.

Depending on what level the bolt is broken off, I have had some success at welding a nut to the broken piece. If you try this, disconnect the alternator and battery. Some of the others here may have some other suggestions on that problem.

As I recall there is something else you may have to determine before you install the timing chain. The tensioner takes up the slack in the chain and I believe you have to rotate the cam back toward the tensioner (counter clockwise) when you align the marks. The chain should be tight on the right side when you slide the gear on the cam. Check that out before hand, it's been a while since I've done that.

That engine is a good one to rebuild. Mine is in an "84 GTS with 237,000 miles on it. All I've had to do was replace the timing chain guides so far (crossing my fingers).

Hope this helps,

Later,
 

Last edited by marbobj; 08-27-06 at 12:01 PM.
  #7  
Old 08-27-06, 03:40 PM
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Marbobj, The new timing set's chain has paint marks on one side at opposite ends of the chain.
I would think that this has an important place in the alignment procedure, yet neither the timing set nor the gasket set came with any installation procedures or cautions concerning the alignment, only on the installation of the front main seal.
If you could look in your manual for me, I would appreciate it.
Thanx for the torque sequence.
My fax # is 302.340.6068 if there is a picture.
jeff
 
  #8  
Old 08-27-06, 04:48 PM
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Jeff:

I keep remembering more on that engine. There aren't typical alignment marks on the gears. Sorry I should have thought of this sooner. The original timing chain has three bright links on it. Two are on one side of the chain and the other is on the opposing side.

The gear on the crank has a little paint spot on it. The single bright link is matched on that paint spot. On the cam gear is a timing mark. That timing mark goes between the two bright links with the mark at the top of the cam rotation.

Here is the biggey: The crankshaft absolutely has to be in the proper spot of its rotation when you assemble. I believe the keyways are at the very top which should put the paint spot at dead bottom. AS I remember it this is TDC for the #1 piston. I tried to find something in this manual that would verify this, but there are only photos that give that impression.

The consequences of the crank being out of position is the piston hitting the valves. I wish I could be definite on this, but it has to be confirmed by one means or another.

Hope this helps
 
  #9  
Old 08-27-06, 06:04 PM
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Marbobj, The new chain has the same three marks you mentioned.
Two adjoining links at one end and one at the exact opposite end.
The chain has an odd number of links because the single marked link is exactly halfway around from the center of the two marked links, which would make it an odd amount of links, me thinks.
Exactly the position to put them in for assembly is unknown to me, but there are dots on both the gears.
Allowing for the force of rotation by the crank, the chain tension on the right side which has the straight guide, would have to be the proper length to keep the crank and cam in order.
That said there is also the distributer drive gear which has many more positions intended to perplex the situation.
I must take this one day at a time and thank you for your help.
As you remember more, I am all eyes.
Mine is also a Celica GTS, with fuel injection.
I understand they came with 2bbl's also.
This one is in pretty good shape phyically, for an 84.
Doesn't appear to have been wrecked.
I got a good deal on it because of the leak problem.
Thanx,
Jeff
 

Last edited by ewizard; 08-27-06 at 06:37 PM.
  #10  
Old 08-27-06, 06:18 PM
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What you have makes sense. The position of the cam gear mark is straight up and the position of the crank gear mark is straight down.

With the #1 piston on compression: When you install the distributor, set the timing mark on the damper to about 10 degrees BTC. Then mark the #1 distributor post of the cap down on the distributor base. Leave the rotor on and install the distributor so the rotor aligns with the mark you put on the base. It'll rotate because of the gears meshing so you have to play with a little. Try to keep the adjustment throw of the distributor in the middle so you can rotate it to set the timing.

Hope this helps,

Bob
 

Last edited by marbobj; 08-27-06 at 07:03 PM.
  #11  
Old 08-27-06, 07:49 PM
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Bob, Thanks, that helps.
With the crank mark at 6:00 #1 & #4 are at tdc while #2 & #4 are at bdc.
The single paint mark aligned at the crank mark will put the cam mark aligned at the double chain mark at a little before 12:00, I think, though which of the two marks is correct?
I last looked at the chains yesterday and do not have them if front of me now, but I would believe that those should be the governing positions.
I will check it out and get back with you.
Thanx for the help.
jeff
 
  #12  
Old 08-28-06, 02:02 PM
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Bob, That works. The chain and gear marks line up. One on the single mark, the other in between the two marks. I was thinking there would be a roller between the two. I have to get some gasket sealer. I don't trust that water jacket not leaking in to the timing cover. I haven't got to the point of thinking about the distributer yet. Soon as I put it all together to that point.
Thanx,
jeff
 
  #13  
Old 08-29-06, 07:22 PM
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22 Re

Jeff:

To double check, if your #1 and #4 piston are at TDC, then #1 should be on compression and #4 should be on exhaust. Check the position of the cam lobes, before you tighten the head bolts.

#1's rockers should off the cam lobes or on the low run and the rockers for #4 should be intake off the lobe and and exhaust fully on. The intake valve is the one that strikes if things are off.

Hope this helps,

Bob
 
  #14  
Old 08-30-06, 04:40 AM
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My son had exactly the same problem with the 22R engine in his pickup. The worn timing chain had slapped a hole through the front cover allowing coolant to flow into the oil.
 
  #15  
Old 08-30-06, 10:06 PM
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I'm hearing about it more now than years ago. It could have to do with more of the engines have gotten the miles on the timing chains to cause that problem.

I would think if the tensioner and guides (dampers) were in serviceable condition even a worn chain would be held away from the casing.
 
  #16  
Old 09-01-06, 07:41 PM
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The chain guides are plastic, plastic has no business inside of an engine.
The driver side guide is straight because the rotation tension is for the crank to pull the cam by that side and mine had that side missing and grooves worn in the cover.
The passenger side has a curve due to the tensioner pressure on that side of the chain.
Had the tensioner failed the passenger side would have went and then the chain would have worn into the cooling gallery.
The waterpump is located on the front of the timing cover and flows coolant through it.
Any loss of seal between the two = an overhaul.
Inspection of the cover for cracks and using a gasket shellac during assembly are must do's during rebuilding/ overhaul.
I have spent probably close to fourty hours working on this one.
For my first time overhauling this type of engine I would not want to do it over.
To quote one of our group moderators, DIY Addict:
"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over."
Not that it couldn't be done faster, I took my time...
The feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction and saving money in doing a job yourself.
 

Last edited by ewizard; 09-03-06 at 06:36 PM.
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