Is it the transmission or the clutch?

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Old 01-25-07, 04:40 PM
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Is it the transmission or the clutch?

90 Geo Tracker
4x4
Manual 5 speed
174K Miles

I was driving, heard a high-pitched whining noise, thought I could make it home but never did. It was in 5th gear, all the sudden the car went into neutral. Everytime I pressed the gas it just rev'd the car. It would go into gear, but would not engage. I tried all gears, same thing. Now I'm wondering is it the clutch or transmission?

Thanks in advance!
 
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Old 01-25-07, 05:51 PM
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Likely the clutch is a goner; is it original?
 
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Old 01-25-07, 05:57 PM
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Does the whining happen with the clutch in or out?
Also thoughts may be throw out bearing, schros.
But agree.. Likely a clutch.
 
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Old 01-25-07, 05:57 PM
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Yes, is it difficult & expensive to put one on yourself?

Thanks
 
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Old 01-25-07, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 99tj View Post
Does the whining happen with the clutch in or out?
Also thoughts may be throw out bearing, schros.
But agree.. Likely a clutch.
The whining was only happening when it was in gear, with clutch both in & out.

Is the throw out bearing in the transmission? And what is the schros?

Thanks
 
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Old 01-25-07, 06:01 PM
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It would be intermediate-to-advanced DIY; it's not terribly expensive to have it done, but of course nothing is cheap anymore. Throwout bearing is part of the clutch mechanism
 
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Old 01-25-07, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by the_tow_guy View Post
It would be intermediate-to-advanced DIY; it's not terribly expensive to have it done, but of course nothing is cheap anymore. Throwout bearing is part of the clutch mechanism
Ok, is there a way I can rule out the transmission & just assume it's the clutch?

THanks
 
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Old 01-25-07, 06:53 PM
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thats hard to say, if u can get any access to the bell housing to see if any clutch peices are there , if no real access look thru where the clutch arm goes thru, tom
 
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Old 01-26-07, 06:29 AM
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Not sure if I got an answer to the question as to whther it is original or if it's been previously replaced; in other words, how many miles are on the current clutch? If it has 174,000 miles on it (that would be a LOT) it's almost certainly worn out. Anything over 100,000 would put it in the prime candidate category.
 
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Old 01-26-07, 06:32 AM
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Just reread your original post and noticed it's a 4x4; are you sure the transfer case selector wasn't bumped? More than once I've towed a car with a "tranny problem" into a trans shop only to have the mechanics discover that.
 

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Old 01-26-07, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by the_tow_guy View Post
Not sure if I got an answer to the question as to whther it is original or if it's been previously replaced; in other words, how many miles are on the current clutch? If it has 174,000 miles on it (that would be a LOT) it's almost certainly worn out. Anything over 100,000 would put it in the prime candidate category.
Yes, it is the original clutch. Should I get a new or used one? Also, which parts do you recommend replacing or should I replace everything, flywheel, disk, pressure plate & throw out bearing?

Thanks
 
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Old 01-26-07, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by the_tow_guy View Post
Just reread your original post and noticed it's a 4x4; are you sure the transfer case selector wasn't bumped? More than once I've towed a car with a "tranny problem" into a trans shop only to have the mechanics discover that.
No it was not the transfer case selector. I had 4th gear for a while, once all other gears were gone. But it eventually gave out.
 
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Old 01-26-07, 08:26 AM
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clutch

if the flywheel is not chewed up beyong getting it resurficed its good clutch disk pressure plate throu out berring and pilot bering or bushing slave cylinder if its bad or inside the bell housing
 
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Old 01-26-07, 01:20 PM
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Pretty good diagram here: http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1f/09/f5/0900823d801f09f5.jsp

Click to enlarge.

Looks like yours is cable operated, so no hydraulics to mess with.

New parts: Disk, pressure plate, & throwout bearing. Also, as jamesdka says, check flywheel and probably have it turned to true it up, and replace the transmission pilot bearing (center of flywheel).
 
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Old 01-26-07, 02:57 PM
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tow guy, did you catch the post about having 4th gear for a while after the other gears went out?

Although the clutch could be a problem, I can't see how OP would have had 4th gear but no others due to a clutch. I suspect there is more than just the clutch involved, if the clutch is actually a problem at all.
 
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Old 01-26-07, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by nap View Post
tow guy, did you catch the post about having 4th gear for a while after the other gears went out?

Although the clutch could be a problem, I can't see how OP would have had 4th gear but no others due to a clutch. I suspect there is more than just the clutch involved, if the clutch is actually a problem at all.
Interesting, nap...do you think it is the transmission?

Thanks
 
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Old 01-26-07, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Quark View Post
Interesting, nap...do you think it is the transmission?

Thanks
Not sure.

Typically you lose one or two gears at a time depending upon what breaks. To lose 4 and keep one for a period of time and then losing that one is throwing me but if you lose a clutch, you simply lose the mechanical connection between the engine and the trans which would show up in all gears.

I'm at a loss at the moment. I'll have to think about this.
 
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Old 01-26-07, 05:38 PM
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I am not fimilar with your auto. If it is not fulltime 4wd try putting it in 4wd and see if the "other" set of wheels will move it. If the clutch was working ok it is unlikely it failed all at once, if it has been slipping then it is possibe, however, when I have had a working clutch to fail it has always been the pedal stops working(you can't get it to release rather than ingage). Since you had 4th gear for a while after loosing 5th the problem could very well be in ther tranny. All gears in the tranny run off the primary input gear which is on the shaft that comes from the clutch except 4th which is straight thru the tranny for a 1:1 ratio anything else is geared from the primary input. If the bearings go out in the primary it allows the contact with the associated secondary gears to become a problem. However you should have heard a lot of very loud grinding a popping while that was going on. You can drain the grease from the tranny to see if ther are any gear teeth etc. in the residue. Keep us posted, there are some very good mechaincs on this forum that will have the answers(I don't claim to be one). Have a nice day. Geo
 
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Old 01-26-07, 05:59 PM
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don't sell yourself short geogrubb. You came up with a logical explanation for the situation. Although not all 5 speeds have 4th gear as a 1:1, if this one does, it may very well explain the remaining 4th gear while the others went away.

If OP lost the primary input gear, or anything involving the countershaft, this is exactly what would happen.

Not sure what specifically broke, especially since you eventually lost 4th gear as well but this pretty much wraps it up in my mind, the tranny died.
 
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Old 01-26-07, 06:04 PM
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Have you tried shifting into all of the gears with the engine off and see if it feels like you have gears left i noticed no one asked you that. That is a sure fire way to tell if the trans is bad or the clutch. also just for giggles check the fluid level in the trans and also you may have a hydrolic clutch check the fluid level in there see if anything is low or out of adjustment before you go and tear it apart
 
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Old 01-26-07, 06:23 PM
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Missed the reference to 4th gear; that is a puzzler. I was a little slow on remembering the transfer case lever, too; must be getting old. Good analysis, geo. I like the idea of draining the gear oil and seeing if any chunks come out. That would certainly shorten the troubleshooting if it does blow chunks.

Quark, regardless of whether it's the tranny or not, if you're going to fix it, plan on doing the clutch at the same time. If it's not the problem, it's certainly on borrowed time.
 
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