Sam Memmolo endorses K&N and Tornado ~ claims true?

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  #1  
Old 02-18-07, 01:52 PM
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Sam Memmolo endorses K&N and Tornado ~ claims true?

On his Saturday radio show he endorses the two named products; K& N air filters that are supposed to boost horsepower by up to 10%...that your car can feel..guaranteed, they even say. And claims made about not just performance, but economy as well.

And with the Tornado... I think he said that this device will improve gas mileage from 7-24 %!

If these claims are true, then why doesn't the government mandate these to be on cars????!!!

And if it is not true? I hate to think. How can any legitimate airwaves personality endorse such stuff, then?
 
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Old 02-18-07, 02:12 PM
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K&N filter due improve mileage and horsepower.

The Tornado gadget is a piece of junk. It does nothing to a vehicles performance. 85% of vehicles will show little or no improvement with this. They can claim it works by seeing an improvement on one vehicle.


The government has no legal basis to mandate K&N. If that were to happen, they would be endorsing one companies product, in turn, would be a monopoly.

K&N's filters are patented so they cannot used by manufacturers without their endorsment.

Also, some cars you cannot use K&N because K&N filters require oiling, that oil can ruin some vehicles MAF sensors.
 
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Old 02-18-07, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by HotinOKC View Post
K&N filter due improve mileage and horsepower.

The Tornado gadget is a piece of junk. It does nothing to a vehicles performance. 85% of vehicles will show little or no improvement with this. They can claim it works by seeing an improvement on one vehicle.


The government has no legal basis to mandate K&N. If that were to happen, they would be endorsing one companies product, in turn, would be a monopoly.

K&N's filters are patented so they cannot used by manufacturers without their endorsment.

Also, some cars you cannot use K&N because K&N filters require oiling, that oil can ruin some vehicles MAF sensors.
IF the Tornado is junk...then how can they start with the 7% rather than 0%?

Since the government is requiring (mandating) that car companies improve mileage figures, and there are products out there that can...then you would think this would be a shoe-in for K% N...in the way Haliburton gets the big contracts overseas, as a monopoly of sorts.
 
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Old 02-18-07, 02:32 PM
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Manufacturers can and have developed their own technology for improving gas mileage without the need for a K/N filter.

When it comes down to it, the reason they haven't done this is, MONEY and OIL. The oil companies and lobbyist put a tremendous amount of pressure on auto manufacturers not to produce a very fuel efficient vehicle. The more fuel efficient vehicles there are, the less money the oil demons are making.
 
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Old 02-18-07, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HotinOKC View Post
Manufacturers can and have developed their own technology for improving gas mileage without the need for a K/N filter.

When it comes down to it, the reason they haven't done this is, MONEY and OIL. The oil companies and lobbyist put a tremendous amount of pressure on auto manufacturers not to produce a very fuel efficient vehicle. The more fuel efficient vehicles there are, the less money the oil demons are making.
So what you are saying is that the manufacturer already is getting the mileage? Then how can K & N lay claim that they can improve this mileage? Just what then are they improving?: 1970's cars that are still on the road?

And then it sounds like if what you say is true, we must have a major conflict going on: Lobbyists who want poor gas mileage and the government who tells the manufacturer that they must improve it?
 
  #6  
Old 02-18-07, 04:22 PM
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Bull cookies. I don't know where people get these conspiracy theories. I and many of my colleagues work for the auto industry. We spend a lot of time trying to improve automotive gas mileage in every way we can. You'd be surprised to see the herculean efforts engineers go through to gain just one-tenth of a mile-per-gallon. Spend a day in my shoes and you'll see the the oil companies have nothing on the automobile manufacturers. Why do you think so much money was spent to develop hybrid technology?

If you wonder why American auto manufacturers don't build more fuel efficient vehicles like the japanese, just look in the mirror. The public has turned a cold shoulder to fuel efficient vehicles. That's why Chrysler killed the Neon and Toyota started building F150-class rucks.

The reason Sam Memmolo endorses this snake oil is that he is forced to prostitute himself to get advertising dollars for his show.
 
  #7  
Old 02-18-07, 04:44 PM
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K&N and Gas Mileage

I agree with Kestas , big oil co's lobbying to auto makers to make not-so-fuel efficient cars ? non-sense.
Now those K&N Cold Air intakes do work( I wouldn't know about just replacing the filter on your car w/out complete kit ), I used to have a '92 suburban 4x4 350 CI TBI and man it worked on it good, I'm not too crazy about fuel efficiency so I never actually measured it but it definetely got more power and better acceleration. It was illegal in CA though.
Those Flowmaster Mufflers help too.
I think manufacturers do the best they can since they have to meet smog standards and try to get the best mpg they can but there's some after market apps that do the job, namely mufflers, cat back systems, pulleys, and less restrictive air intakes as well as high performance wires and electrical parts. Have you watched horsepower tv ? they do the dyno before and after and it shows the gains on their cars.
 
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Old 02-18-07, 07:43 PM
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We can put people in space, but can't make a fuel efficient vehicle? haha.

MPG efficiency have not gone up since the 60-70's. You may work in the "auto industry", but I'm pretty sure you are not sitting at the big table with the CEO's and government officials.

Who said anything about conspiracy?

It's a fact that oil companies are making record profits. The auto industry does not want to make fuel efficient vehicles, if they did, we could easily have cars having over 40-50mpg easily.

They (auto manu) love selling the gas hog SUV's and trucks. Not only are they ripping people off by charging $40,000 for a vehicle, you gotta pay $100 to get floor mats.

The fact is, manufacturers are NOT doing all they can to increase fuel efficiency because they know people want to real power of oil/gas hog V8's. Auto manufacturers build what will bring in the money.

Until society and manufacturers stop wanting V8's, there will never be a true fuel efficient car that is in the price range of the middle class working man.
 
  #9  
Old 02-18-07, 09:40 PM
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K&N filters can help free up horsepower and/or torque
I've seen it with my own eyes on the dyno
BUT....how much depends on how much a restriction the paper filter was
I would not expect more than 5 - 7 hp on most
I suppose more is conceivable on a specific engine, but really engines are pretty efficient these days

I've seen K&Ned engines run higher numbers than w/o any filter, because the filter actually straightened out the air flow to the engine

Which brings me to the Tornado
Swirling the air before it enters the throttle body of a modern fuel injected engine to produce more horsepower defies logic
The idea is to get more air in quicker, with the least amount of turbulence
I suppose, in theory, if the air intake tract was so convoluted that the Tornado's swirl helped straighten out the air flow by twisting it, it could conceivably raise the HP on a very specific, and inefficient engine
The swirling air for atomization of fuel in a fuel injected engine was basically de-bunked and dropped by manufacturers back in the 80s by real world data

Which bring me to gas mileage
More horsepower and more torque does not go hand in hand with better gas mileage...ever
As we are freeing up lost horsepower/torque, rather than adding it, by allowing the engine to run more efficiently, technically a case could be made for better mileage, as long as you don't put your foot into it by exploring that new found horsepower/torque

Which brings me to my next point
People's driving habits have more to do with gas mileage than anything short of a smaller engine
Everyone thinks they are good drivers, and most are not fuel efficient drivers
This has been proven time and time again, the latest being a rather large study by AAA
There is no add-on or adjustment one can make to one's car that will improve mileage better on every and any vehicle than better more fuel efficient driving habits


I would like to add that the personal opinions about what the government should or shouldn't do, and what the auto industry can or can't do, and what the American public wants or doesn't want, should be for another thread in "Chats and Whines"
This area is for technical help/info/answers
Thank You
 
  #10  
Old 02-19-07, 05:55 AM
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That swirling air also stops swirling the moment it hits the throttle plate anyway.
 
  #11  
Old 02-19-07, 06:18 AM
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The manufacturers don't put in K&N filters at the factory, because you don't need one.

Sure when you put one in, your engine can make more horsepower - mostly at peak RPM, but how often, unless you take your car to the drag strip, do you see peak RPM? Let's see, I've had my Suburban for two years - never! I've had another car five years - maybe once.

The engine will also burn more fuel and create more pollution with a K&N filter.

It does unrestrict the intake which makes your engine sound like it makes more horsepower, and that's why they're so popular. But the manufacturer wants to make a quiet vehicle.

The Vortex device is a gimmick, pure and simple. Sam Memmolo is a mechanic. He may not really understand the engineering side of things. However, he does understand the business side. He knows if he sells them, they will pay him to do it.
 
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Old 02-19-07, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by HotinOKC View Post
We can put people in space, but can't make a fuel efficient vehicle? haha.

MPG efficiency have not gone up since the 60-70's. You may work in the "auto industry", but I'm pretty sure you are not sitting at the big table with the CEO's and government officials.

Who said anything about conspiracy?

It's a fact that oil companies are making record profits. The auto industry does not want to make fuel efficient vehicles, if they did, we could easily have cars having over 40-50mpg easily.

They (auto manu) love selling the gas hog SUV's and trucks. Not only are they ripping people off by charging $40,000 for a vehicle, you gotta pay $100 to get floor mats.

The fact is, manufacturers are NOT doing all they can to increase fuel efficiency because they know people want to real power of oil/gas hog V8's. Auto manufacturers build what will bring in the money.

Until society and manufacturers stop wanting V8's, there will never be a true fuel efficient car that is in the price range of the middle class working man.
I have a 91 Dodge Spirit, a 4-banger, light uniframe type car, where they even welded the door hinges on rather than bolt them!... that has the computer stuff with injector and map and oxygen sensor, expensive in-tank fuel pump and all that stuff...yet only has gotten 26 mpg *tops*, for me,... and my uncle back in the early 70's had this 6-cylinder Ford Maverick that didn't do too much worse than that (from what I remember).

Very interesting reading the responses in this thread. Still don't understand if like the K & N works, as one poster above claims, why the government (like the EPA) doesn't make manufacturers or people install this. Do these add to the polution or something?
 

Last edited by DaVeBoy; 02-19-07 at 04:30 PM.
  #13  
Old 02-19-07, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by indy-diy View Post
The manufacturers don't put in K&N filters at the factory, because you don't need one.

Sure when you put one in, your engine can make more horsepower - mostly at peak RPM, but how often, unless you take your car to the drag strip, do you see peak RPM? Let's see, I've had my Suburban for two years - never! I've had another car five years - maybe once.

The engine will also burn more fuel and create more pollution with a K&N filter.

It does unrestrict the intake which makes your engine sound like it makes more horsepower, and that's why they're so popular. But the manufacturer wants to make a quiet vehicle.

The Vortex device is a gimmick, pure and simple. Sam Memmolo is a mechanic. He may not really understand the engineering side of things. However, he does understand the business side. He knows if he sells them, they will pay him to do it.
I posted before reading THIS post. But I thought I have heard that the K & N claims to increase *economy*, also? Tinme to settle this and go to their website, I think.
 
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Old 02-19-07, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by the_tow_guy View Post
That swirling air also stops swirling the moment it hits the throttle plate anyway.
So then, if that is true, even though Sam Memmolo says that the vortex is vertical...that he is espousing some huey, and if so....well, so is one of his radio competitors, Jeff Brooks!...then I am losing respect for these guys...when they know these devices cost about $70 a pop!!
 
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Old 02-19-07, 04:25 PM
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I'm sure you've noticed a lot of the car/truck shows recomend/advertise a lot of the same products - I garuntee you that's part of what pays for the show.
 
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Old 02-19-07, 04:27 PM
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Slickshift,

Down in your interesting lengthy post you mention about driving habits. With my Spirit, I lag way behind other drivers coming off red lights. I drive like an egg is under gas pedal, always. I alsways use my cruise control on the 40 mile round trip from Eau Claire to my home. I have good plugs with sharp edges on them and no carbon, new oxygen sensor, new fuel regulator, no fuel leaks, the car runs smooth, yet I only muster mileage like some 70's cars got. Sometimes, when the weather was fall-like here, I only got 18-22 mpg, all around driving in Eau Claire and the highway trip to and from home. And that Spirit I believe is a light car, by comparing to other cars of the same length.
 
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Old 02-19-07, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by marksr View Post
I'm sure you've noticed a lot of the car/truck shows recomend/advertise a lot of the same products - I garuntee you that's part of what pays for the show.
Ya, but...lies have got to go...if they are lies.
 
  #18  
Old 02-19-07, 04:48 PM
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Junk and not junk

The air filter works but the mpg increass is inflated and it can also mess up the MAF sensor, The tornado is junk. If you still believe the tornado works I have a deal for you.
Got some pills that smell like moth balls and mileage will go up 75 per cent. just drop them in your gas tank.
 
  #19  
Old 02-20-07, 10:14 AM
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K&N technology came out in the 1920 or so. I first saw them on old airplanes, remember not much dirt in the sky, usually. Airplanes went to paper like just about everything. You can get good air flow by having no filter at all, not recommended. So K&N is just letting more air and dirt in, and oil contaminated MAF will likely happen if your vehicle is equipped with one.
Tornado is a joke.
 
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Old 02-20-07, 01:06 PM
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The K&N works primarily by providing more _surface area_ than a standard filter. Same filtration, less restriction.

Cold air intakes work, but only if they get their air from OUTSIDE the engine compartment. Those kits that simply put a big honkin filter in the engine compartment and call themselves 'cold air intakes' are BS, they are sucking up hotter air than the stock setup, most of which get their air from the front of the car, not the engine compartment.

As far as mileage, manufacturers don't sell fuel efficient cars *IN THE UNITED STATES* because Americans don't want them. Plain and simple. Smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles are readily available, but you see people buying SUV's and large trucks instead, even though they never go off-road (and most SUV's couldn't anyway) or haul the first piece of lumber.

It's not enough for YOU to want one, a few million others also need to want one, and be willing to pay for it.

If you are truely concerned about saving gas and money, buy yourself a motorcycle. Any one of which will get 40+ mpg and some more than 70.
 
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Old 02-20-07, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
If you are truely concerned about saving gas and money, buy yourself a motorcycle. Any one of which will get 40+ mpg and some more than 70.
Ya, I used to ride when I was young back in the early 70's. If I remember correctly mine got 45-50 mpg, couldn't even put a $1 in the 3 gal tank but later I realized that the roof leaked, heater didn't work in the winter.....
 
  #22  
Old 02-20-07, 01:47 PM
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One thing that is interesting about people bellyaching about the price of gas and gas mileage is that everybody wants others to buy the fuel-efficient vehicles.

Someone once did a study on mass transit to alleviate congestion in urban traffic. When the populace was polled they found an overwhelming number of people were all for it. When asked if they would use it, an overwhelming number of people said NO. It turns out people wanted "everybody else" to use mass transit, and free up the freeways for their own travel.

Again, if you want to define a problem, first look in the mirror for the solution. These oil company conspiracy theories are just a way for people to justify their wasteful habits, absolve themselves of responsibility, and say to themselves "It's not my fault." We are a very selfish bunch of people.
 
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Old 02-20-07, 03:35 PM
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So... you are at odds then with posters above who say the K & N simply let's in more (unfiltered) air. Pleated furnace filters work on the same principle of gaining more filtration area, without compromising on filtration, by increasing the area within the same space. For ecxample, a typical 16 X 20 filter that is pleated could be stretched open and reveal that it has WAY more than 16 x 20 surface area. So...the K & N filter does like the furnace filter, in essence?

Regarding people not wanting fuel eficient vehicles? Hmmm. Too generalizing. There are plenty people who DO want fuel efficient vehicles.

Regarding buying a motor cycle: How about making it a 50 # (exaggerating some) scooter instead? I asked this guy who had a motorized scooter how many mpg and he said about 80. I said, "What???! ONLY 80? I said that is only double or LESS of what fuel efficient CARS can get, and yet your scooter must weigh 1/20 of the car!" How do you figure THAT one? Why doesn't the scooter get like 500 mpg?

Moderator edit:
Quote removed.
It's not necessary to quote other complete posts as it makes these threads difficult to read.
 

Last edited by GregH; 02-20-07 at 04:04 PM.
  #24  
Old 02-20-07, 04:11 PM
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I own a 04 gmc sierra 5.3L w/ a K&N "cold air intake" series 70,custom flowmaster 40s with a throttle body spacer and a custom tuned chip.Those out there who say K&N filters don't work have either never bought one or experienced one.My truck alone saw with just the K&N intake saw a rise of almost 3 mpg.My truck with these modifications gets close to 20 mpg!I also dont drive like a crazy person either.Something you should consider if you own a full cold air intake system is after driving for around a hundred miles you should disconnect your battery and let the ecu and pcm reset themselves.This of course only works if your are running a obd-2 compatible vehicle.As for getting oil in your maf sensor, if you follow the directions on the re-charge kit you wont have any problem with oil getting into your sensor.Just dont over do it on the oil when you service the kit.A little goes a long way.
 
  #25  
Old 02-20-07, 04:20 PM
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kind of a hassle

I had a K&N filter a few years ago I thought it was kind of a hassle to recharge. The part I did not like was having to wait for it to dry before spraying new oil on. Maybe you dont have to wait but I know water and oil do not mix. It would help if you have two with one ready to go. I like the quick drop in and go filters.
I really do not want to spend any more time then required outside with extreme temps. (kind of old I guess).
 
  #26  
Old 02-22-07, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
The K&N works primarily by providing more _surface area_ than a standard filter. Same filtration, less restriction.
Last time I looked paper filters were pleated too, so K&N has to let more dirt in.
 
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