Four wheel disc required for ABS?

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Old 07-07-07, 05:26 AM
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Four wheel disc required for ABS?

Are four wheel disc brakes required for a car to have ABS? This came from a dealer when discussing the problems with rear disc brakes.
 
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Old 07-07-07, 06:00 AM
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Since there are numerous trucks with both drum rears, front discs and ABS, the answer would be no.
 
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Old 07-07-07, 06:05 AM
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No, you don't have to have 4 wheels disc to get ABS, there are several types of ABS system out there that does not required 4 wheels disc brakes.
 
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Old 07-07-07, 06:44 AM
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Ok, I didn't think so.
Since we on the topic of disc, what's with the problems with rear disc brakes?? I understand dust/dirt is the problem.
 
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Old 07-07-07, 07:25 AM
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With a well designed system, I have had no problems with rear disc brakes. As a matter of fat, I prefer them.

One of the biggest problems I have seen is many poorly designed systems that lead to problems. Disc brake sytems, in general, need to be able to move freely. What happens in the rear is, since the rear brakes do so much less work than the fromt brakes, they last a lllloooonnnggggg time. This means that they stay somewhat stationary for a long time and this leads to corrosion in most systems which means things freeze up. Then things just don;t work well, or sometimes not at all.

In a vehicle that uses a lot of braking (semi trucks, performance vehicles) rear disc brakes work exceptionally well. The pads are used relatively quickly so things are always moving which prevents things from seizing.

Drum brakes work in such a different fashion that that lack of movement does not affect them as much as it does disc brakes. Now, it does still cause a problem with drum brakes, but not as quickly.


disc brakes are not affected by normal dust dirt exposure. Now if you are into mud races, they would experience the same problems drum brakes would inthe same situation. The Only greater negative is that the rotors are exposed and so that allows dirt etc to get between the pads and rotor easier than with drum brakes, which are more enclosed. In mormal driving conditions, you should not experience any more dust, dirt problems with disc brakes than you do with drum brakes.
 
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Old 07-07-07, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
Ok, I didn't think so.
Since we on the topic of disc, what's with the problems with rear disc brakes?? I understand dust/dirt is the problem.

What kind of problem that you encounter on rear disc brakes ?.

As Nap said above, it's all depends.
 
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Old 07-07-07, 09:32 AM
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I had ABS on my 89' chev pkup with drums and the only issue was that the wheel sensors had to be cleaned up now and then as noted by the ABS dash light coming on, other than that i had no problems. My 04' GMC has disc brakes all around with ABS ,and i haven't had any issues.
 
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Old 07-07-07, 11:03 AM
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nap; sounds as you might have something considering the issue that calipers have with them freezing up all the time due to dust/dirt/corrosion.

I never had these features (all disc or ABS) and nor do I want them. I can modulate (punmp) my brakes when necessary in the winter as I have for as long as I can remember.

Just looking at the Consumer Reports repair listing for brakes on Chevy Impalas for example, they are almost all full black circles in the past 6 or so years.. The Impala has 4 wheel disc.
This was also confirmed by a couple of mechinics that admitted excssive problems with the rear discs. Even in the manufactures seminars, the topic has been brought up more than once. GM doesn't seem to know exactly what/where the issue is. The issue also includes Ford & Chrysler.
 
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Old 07-07-07, 12:20 PM
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It isn't dust, or dirt. it is corrosion due to the lack of good engineering and lack of gross movement, as I stated before.

One of the worst designs I ever encountered was on 90's era GM W bodies (Lumina, Grand Prix, Regal, etc.) they used a very poorly designed slide system that allowed the caliper slides to freeze totally. I have seen cars with absolutely no outside pad function. Rotors were so rusted that they were unusable. The park brake system on these same cars was just about as big a problem. First rule to those brakes, use your parking brake, all the time. It helps.

There have been many other nearly as poor designs but I think GM keeps the record for poorest engineering with those brakes.

Dirt and dust is not a problems unless it is allowed to get into places it can cause damage. It does not typically cause a problem when between the rotor and pads. It is impossible to get anything large in there and the little bit that does get in will not cause a problem.

I personally prefer disc brakes. The offer greater braking power. are generally less affected by heat and ,if designed well, are simpler to work on.

well engineered disc brakes are unbeatable.

poorly engineered brakes are expensive lessons.

As far as ABS, if you live in a snowy area, you will appreciate what it can do. It is impossible for the driver to do what the ABS system does. Never, no way, no how. it goes well beyond simple pumping of the brakes. I have driven both and the difference in safety is so great it is difficult to express. I think of myself as a very good driver but I cannot do what ABS does, especially in an emergency situation where it is normal for a human to over react.

I haven't had the opportunity to deal with Impala brakes so it is difficult to understand what the problem is but back in the 90's GM also claimed ignorance as well but they did eventually change the system to reflect an aftermarket repair that came out to help remedy GM's mistakes and por engineering.

I suggest they do know what the problem is but if they admit it, it then becomes an issue of a recall, possible even a forced one and lots of money to fix them.
 
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Old 07-09-07, 12:50 PM
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Like anything engineered, there are pros and cons to both systems.

Drum brakes are cheaper to manufacture and lighter for the same braking power.

Disc brakes have higher stopping power for the same sized package and are less prone to brake fade. I'm not sure, but I believe they are more quickly engaged during stopping than drum brakes.
 
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Old 07-10-07, 04:39 AM
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It's just those damn callibers that seize up all the time that I don't like. To me, it's a four letter word.
 
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