Brake Line repair/replace

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  #1  
Old 11-12-07, 08:58 AM
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Brake Line repair/replace

Hi all,
I have an 86 F150. I got it for next to nothing. I doubt I will ever drive more than 10 miles total in the next few years as its only going to be used for hauling things on my farm a tractor can't easily do.

I have a pit in the line just under the master brake cylinder, causing it to leak and the brakes to be completely useless. The line is the high compression kind that is bent (not the bendable coil-style that runs to the brakes).

Everything is terribly rusted. I wanted to take off the entire line, but rounded off the nut at the cylinder, so I cut about 10 inches of the line off and replaced it with a clamped inline rubber fuel hose.

I would never do this for a car on the road, but for this application, does anyone think in can work?
If not - 2 questions
1. How can I get the rounded nut off?? (already tried vice grips)
2. How to I bend that instore line to fit the contours of the frame etc?

Any help greatly appreciated.
 

Last edited by Foligno03; 11-12-07 at 08:59 AM. Reason: typo
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  #2  
Old 11-12-07, 10:27 AM
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For a vehicle that you are not going to be driving on the road, I don't really see where the fuel line would be a problem. I dont know about the pressures associated with the brake system and you might see some performance problems with the line expanding and contracting. You might want to look for a rubber brake line like is used on some vehicles to go the last little bit to the wheel cylinder. That should be a dual master system which means that even if one leaks out, you should still have brakes on the other set. Usually, diagonal wheels are on each master.

As far as getting the nuts out, soak them with WD40 or liquid wrench. There is a company that makes sockets specifically for removing rounded bolts. My memory is failing me but I think maybe, 'bolt out'. It is a socket that is designed to cut into the surface of the nut to grab it and turn it. If that doesnt work, you can replace the master cylinder. It should be relatively simple and very cheap. I replaced a '76 Ford master cylinder recently and after returning the core, I think it cost me $15. Now you would have to replace the lines after that (if you dont get them out of the old one) or re do the flare fitting. As far as getting the lines bent, I would look for OEM replacement lines and if you cannot find them , pull the old lines off and take them to the store to have the new ones bent in the same fashion. I know that some Fords have a crimped connection to the rubber line at the end of the metal lines. Make sure that you can handle this (that's what made me take one of mine to a shop eventually). Good luck!
 
  #3  
Old 11-12-07, 11:21 AM
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A rubber fuel hose has no place in a brake system. Brake systems can build to very, very high pressures. You say you won't use them this way? What if a grandkid walks in front of you, or a neighbor's child?

Fix it right or don't use the vehicle.
 
  #4  
Old 11-12-07, 05:41 PM
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The whole idea behind hydraulic brakes is moving the piston at the other end of the line to do the work.
If you use something like a rubber fuel line that defeats the purpose.
I like your ingenuity but rubber fuel line is just going to blow off or burst and is extremely dangerous on a farm or off.
As for the stuck fitting you could also replace the master cylinder and buy from Ford an OEM brake line.
Yes it will cost some bucks but it sounds like you can do the work on your own and save labor costs.

Also, does this truck have anti-lock brakes or standard.
If they are standard you can buy a length of brake line and bend it to the same as the original but you need a flaring tool(they are cheep) and some compression fittings.
If it has anti-lock brakes you need lines that are specificly designed for that vehicle.
Good luck!
 
  #5  
Old 11-12-07, 11:26 PM
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Replace brakes lines with brake lines, end of story. As far as getting the old fitting off, I usually cut the line close to the fitting, then use a 6 point deep socket to remove, if you haven't completely rounded it.
 
  #6  
Old 11-15-07, 06:46 AM
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One more question!

Letting you all know that I took every comment into consideration and opted to completely replace the brake line. I tried the socket idea and it got the fitting loose, but it later stripped, so I used vice grips. Presto! Off!
Everything else was rusted so bad that I had to cut the line where it met the rubber line close to the wheel itself. The rubber line is still intact.

Its really tough to tell - is that just a coupler/fitting that goes into that rubber part? The part that seemed to deliver the brake fluid to the rubber hose was about the size of a needle you'd use to blow up a sports ball. Is that correct??
Its an old vehicle and I dont want to replicate someone else's bandaid solution. The place that I got my brake line at, didnt have any fittings that were like it. Any help again great appreciated as always.
 
  #7  
Old 11-15-07, 12:14 PM
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I've always been a junk yard replacer myself. If you got a junk yard near you it doesn't hurt to check and see if they have the truck or line there. A lot of times you can get the part fairly cheap.
 
  #8  
Old 11-15-07, 08:12 PM
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?

That doesn't sound right.

When the hard metal line transitions to the rubber flexible brake hose there should be some type of "pipe" thread or flared fittings to allow for replacement of said rubber hose if the hose fails. Typically the metal line will have a female fitting and the hose will have the corresponding male fitting with some type of clip setup to allow for anchoring to the vehicle. It sounds like replacing that line clear from the master to the wheel assembly would not be the safest or the best way but the only way to deal with your problem.

If I were you with a truck of your vintage and the job it does, I would go buy a 15' or so of brake line matching the stock size(which I would bend by hand), a flaring tool, and the appropriate fittings to match up to the master and then to the brake hose.

Good luck!
 
  #9  
Old 11-15-07, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Foligno03 View Post
Letting you all know that I took every comment into consideration and opted to completely replace the brake line. I tried the socket idea and it got the fitting loose, but it later stripped, so I used vice grips. Presto! Off!
Everything else was rusted so bad that I had to cut the line where it met the rubber line close to the wheel itself. The rubber line is still intact.

Its really tough to tell - is that just a coupler/fitting that goes into that rubber part? The part that seemed to deliver the brake fluid to the rubber hose was about the size of a needle you'd use to blow up a sports ball. Is that correct??
Its an old vehicle and I dont want to replicate someone else's bandaid solution. The place that I got my brake line at, didnt have any fittings that were like it. Any help again great appreciated as always.
Yeah man, same here. Mine was terrible rusted to. I have the 84 f250. I replaced the front brakes on it. I put new brake lines from the proportioning valve(i think) to the fronts. I also replaced the rubber hoses you mentioned.

To get the hose off, and the fitting on the other side i just cut them off, just like you said, where the line comes from the hose. Cut on each side of where they meet, the metal part. Now mine was so bad like yours, that nothing would get it to break loose. It was rusted completely. So i just took a hammer and hit it from the outside and it pops out. You hit it from the hose side. If i remember one hole was round and the other was hex shaped or whatever like the stop sign. I ended up getting somebody to grind the side of the base where the line and hose meets to put one of those R shaped keys, or what that you use on the farm stuff when hooking up a trailer or other stuff. I bought a new one from coop and used it because i tried one of those OEM somewhat pieces from autozone, i think they were plastic and black and they wouldnt fit.

Anyway, if their like mine then you need to go ahead and replace all the hoses and lines. I just replaced the front and not the back since the truck is out of service right now. You might also want to consider replaceing the master cylinder. Shortly after fixing the fronts the thing started leaking fluid.

I will be doing the same thing before i put it back into service, but ive never done the master cylinder before. It shouldnt be to hard.

If you go to autozone or the other ones to find the OEM, it wont be there. They have the standard replacement part. I heard they didnt make them but guess what, i found the OEM.

Here some good websites to look at for parts for the truck.
thepartsbin.com
autopartswarehouse.com
discountautoparts.com
rockauto.com
 
  #10  
Old 11-16-07, 05:07 AM
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Images of what I have

Thanks for the replies guys. The junkyard will be my next call, as will those websites. Thanks so much!

Just in case this tweaks someone to say "oh yeah, you need a 1/6 inch Johnson rod" (or whatever *lol*) I thought I'd post 2 pics I found on the web that look like my situation.
The part that goes into the black rubber looks like the needle you'd use to pump a football up with.





Please note those arent exact, but are very close! I need that union/coupler. I have flared hard line and pre-existing rubber line.


I actually have a parts truck as well, but underneath things for it are just as bad and not worth using. It is also using the rubber flex hose in the same spot, so I guess its not a makeshift fix.
 
  #11  
Old 11-16-07, 06:34 AM
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this pic is it for sure!

Thanks John125! One of those sites had a pic of what I was looking for.

Please see the below graphic. Im looking to replace what is circled (the metal part), but realize that I may have to buy the whole thing:



Any thoughts on where I could possibly buy the union only?
 
  #12  
Old 11-17-07, 07:55 AM
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I dont know of any places, but thats the exact hose that i put on my truck. Yeah youll probably end up buying the whole thing. Theres a lot of good info on here. Glad i could help.
 
  #13  
Old 11-17-07, 11:16 AM
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you can't replace just the end...go to your aprts distributor and buy the appropriate "brake hose". there's one at each front wheel and one in the back. on a truck of that vintage with massive brake line rust, jusr replace the entire line from the master to wherever it goes including the brake hose. brake line comes in many lengths and pieces can be connected using unions. remove the entire length and measure it to see how much you need. bend gently and route it where it needs to go...it doesn't have to be perfect. i doubt you can find prebent lines...nor will you find much in a bone yard. much less aggravation and probably just as economical to buy the lengths you need and make your own. It's done all the time and perfectly acceptable.
 
  #14  
Old 11-20-07, 08:49 AM
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One more question

ok, I bought a new brake hose for about $40. It came with 2 washers. Do those washers go on the connection to the wheel, or the connection to the fuel line coming from the master brake cylinder.

Thanks in advance for your replies!
 
  #15  
Old 11-20-07, 09:36 AM
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place one washer on the bolt>put bolt thru the fitting on the hose> place the other washer on the bolt and connect it to the caliper. Make sure the old washer isn't stuck to the caliper( this has been the cause of more than one leak )
 
  #16  
Old 11-20-07, 11:39 PM
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For your brake hoses and lines, and other wearable parts/any needed part, you need to go to autozone.com or the other parts stores first. Then try those sites for the stuff that isnt available. What i was talking about getting from autozone was the mastercylinder, they didnt have New OEM. What they had available then for the cylinder was remanufactured one. But now i guess they have the new one. So check the local parts store before checking those other places.

As far as your brake hose, he summed it up. If you havent allready replaced it, you might want to hold onto the old washers. I put mine on and did everything and the hose would leak at that connection. So i called an repair shop and they told me to use the old washers and it worked. The funny thing is that one side has the new washers on it and the other side has the olds one on it. Their made out a tuffer metal or something.
 
  #17  
Old 12-03-07, 07:05 AM
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"Bleeding" process

I have installed the new hose/line. I need to bleed the lines and of course the bleeder valves are all rusted. They are all rounded off so I need to use vice-grips and there sure isnt much room to work in for the fronts.

This is my first time and I dont want to mess this all up, so just so I understand:

I should turn it (one valve at a time) COUNTER clockwise a few times, but not all the way off, then start pumping the brakes and use a hose/container to collect the excess fluid until it looks like the air is gone. Then tighten and move on to the other brakes just to be sure I didnt introduce any air into those lines.

Do I have this right?
thanks
 
  #18  
Old 12-03-07, 02:45 PM
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Yes. Be sure to start at the farthest wheel from the master cylinder. ie. Right rear, left rear, front right, front left.

Make sure you keep the fluid reservoir topped off at all times so you don't introduce more air into the system.
 
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