hello, my car has 215/45-17 tires and they seem to be wearing only on the very inside row of treads. The wear is sort of scalloped/choppy. The car has only about 15,000 miles and the tires have been rotated a couple of times so I don't know where the problem started. The wear causes the tires to be very noisy (sounds like a bad bearing almost). Do you think if I rotated the tires in a X pattern to get them rotating the other direction that would help? I had a similar problem on a Honda and they said that front wheel drive cars seem to have this problem. What do you think?

 

Sounds like your camber is off. Have you gotten an alignment?

 

are these original equipment size tires?

Have you put different rims on it? If so, is the offset the same as the OE?

 

If the camber is off (tire lean), shouldn't that wear down the inside or outside - smoothly? though?

How about camber off AND bad shocks causing wheel hop at same time to cause cupping?

Or-

What about if toe-in or out is off and the car is being forced to steer straight even though the tire direction is trying to head toward the centerline or ditch? That seems like that could perhaps cause like a wheel-hop condition as it fights to travel in a straight line, while the wheels are pointed somewhere else. Of course, the camber would have to be listing to the inside at the same time to cause the wear to the inside.

It is the cupping part, the scalloping. My neighbor's car had that REAL bad. His had 4 inch long scallops in it. He ended up getting his aligned, as he was going through 40,000 mile tires in 5,000 miles.

 

The tires and rims are factory. The car is a 07 Scion TC with only 15,00 miles. I had the exact same problem with the Honda civic I had before this car, so I took it in for an alignment and it was within spec. The problem on that car was the rear tires. He blamed it on the tire type and that it was front wheel drive. The scion goes down the road great and if I take it back to the dealer, I'm sure an alignment is one of those not covered items.

 

alignment is probably not covered at 15k...but a phone call will tell the tale on that.

inner or outer most tread rib wear is almost always camber wear. cupping or scalloping is an extreme type of wear caused by defective suspension components...normally shocks or struts in your case. that's unlikely what you have...more likely it's sawtooth wear which is usually associated with toe in/out being off. if it's gotten to the point of being noisey, it's been going on for quite awhile as camber wears tires slowly. regular tire rotation will help minimize the issue once the suspension geometry is verified and adjusted if necessary. i had a new vehicle with this type of issue. i adjusted the camber and toe, which were in spec but not perfect (which is an unrealistis expectation in itself) the wear pattern never reversed, i got 60k from the tires and when i replaced them with a top brand, i didn't have that problem again and still don't. regular tire rotation...every other oil change or 6k for the best tire life...

 

may not be but getting it fixed would probably save you more money than it costs.

 

Thanks for the info.
Pumpguy

 

I took the car back to the dealer for an alignment check today and they said everything was within spec. They showed me the car on the machine and gave me a copy of the readout. They really didn't know what was causing the unusual wear, they just said to rotate every 5K and check tire pressure. comments?

 

I would suggest writing the manufacturer. This may be a problem up and coming and they have not heard about it at the dealer level yet.

I wonder if the alignment specs were altered when they threw this size of tire on this car. It would typically require a bit of adjustment over a more narrow tire to prevent such wear.

 

Tread wear in middle of tire usually means you are running over inflated. I once had a husband who ran under inflated. Tire wear was always on the outsides and not in the middle. I got tired of replacing tires and got on my soap box.

Here's a video re: tire wear: http://www.ehow.com/video_7682_interpret-tire-wear.html

 

Some cars just don't like certain tires. Once the wear has started, the tires will never be true again. Choppy wear usually is caused by bad shocks/ struts or alot of driving on a very bad road (Rub Board) that started the wheel hop.
If you have been roating the tires you should have the same wear pattern on all of them.
If you took it to the dealer that you bought the car from he is going to find every excuse he can to keep himself from being at fault.
Bring it to an independant tire shop.

 

what you need is a older alignment specialist who know's proper alignment. just because it is in spec's doen't mean a thing, the alignment spec's on my old ford are so vague that it can wear tires bad and still be "in spec" I would also be seriously thinking about better shocks also
murphy was an optimist

 

The tire wear is now on all four tires as i have been rotating. These tires are pretty wide and I was thinking maybe if the alignment was on the high or low side of the "range" that might have a more pronounced effect than it would on a narrow tire. The wear is only on the very inside row of treads. Do you think that would be a toe problem? Towed out too far? The car only has 17K on it so I don't think there would be a problem with shocks or struts.

 

are they the original wheels and tires? just curious...

as for wear on the extreme inner or outer tread rib...that's camber wear. excess positive camber wears the outside and excess negative wears the inside. and yes...factory specs can have a fairly wide range and you could be at the extreme and still fall within warrenty guidelines but also wear the tires. if your rims are not original and have a different offset, forget about warrenty and find someone who understands suspension geometry and do what you have to do to get the camber closer to 0 degrees. some vehicles don't come with much provision for adjustments without buying parts first (can you say honda?). it could get fairly expensive...

 

Tire Wear is one of those things that can be caused by a number of issues, (shocks/struts, tire pressure, alignment issues, car design). Taking all that into account, one thing you have to realize is, most of the time when tires are wearing on the inside edge it is due to Negative camber, toe out, or both. Some manufacturers build in negative camber from the factory for better handling, but causes problems in the tire area. Another thing to keep in mind is the word "Factory Specification". If the manufacture designed the car to have neg. camber, you can align it untill your blue in the face and you will continue to get tire wear. I had this same problem on a Honda Civic. I have been in the tire/automotive business for 20+ yrs. and understanding all of this, I did not care about the handling as much as I did about the tire wear. (Within Reason). In my case, I ordered some after market rear lateral link bars with toe adjustment capability, and a rear camber kit. By replacing these parts, I was able to take the car out of alignment but stand the tires up straight and pointing straight. Fixed my problem but you will have to have a good relationship with your automotive tech, because some companies will not do this because of liability issues.

Your car is more than likely in alignment, another thing to take into account is the weight of the car. You can have your car in alignment and intall heavy duty shocks/struts and still have problems because there is just not enough weight in the rear of the car to hold it down to the pavement. At one time in my life I use to race autocross cars and had to add ballast weights in the rear of the car to help with traction. The car just would not stay down. You might try buying an 80lb. bag of quickcrete and placing it in the trunck. This will help with weight and will also take out some of that neg. camber.

Some of your more expensive cars actually require weighting the car in some areas while aligning the car to simulate drivers or passangers. I had to prove a point one time to a customer. The car was in perfect alignment while sitting on the rack, but as soon as the customer got in the car, he was so heavy, it threw the car out of alignment. We had to align the car with him in it.

BTW, just some things to think about.
DW

 

Thanks for all the feedback. It's interesting you mention the Civic. I had a 2000 that did the exact same thing this car is doing. The car is totaly stock (tires and wheels). I have the rear camber spes from my trip to the dealer. The range is -1.4 degrees to -.04 The left rear was -1.2 and the right rear was -0.7. Means nothing to me maybe it does to you.
Thanks

 

is the odd wear on the rear or front?

I understood it to be on the front. Do you have the camber setting for the front? Toe as well it you have it.

 

The wear is now on all 4 tires as I have rotated a couple of times. I'm not sure where it originated, I noticed the tires getting noisy and found the wear. The rear toe range is .03in to.13in The left rear was .05 and the right .04 The front camber range is -1.3 degrees to .2 degrees. The right front was -.04 and the left was-1.0. The front toe range is -.05in to.05in. The right front was at-.05 and the left -.03 Hope this info sheds some light on the problem
Thanks

 

Do you drive on washboard type roads that accelerate cupping from wheel hop?

 

Nothing out of the ordinary as far as road conditions.

 

that, in itself sounds like a likely suspect, right there.

the toe is a bit excessively neg as well.

The combination of both of those setting being where they would tend to cause inner tire wear may be the entire problem.

Due to the width of the tires, I would tend to shoot for near 0 on camber and toe both. A FWD car typically has some neg toe so a bit wouldn't;t be unreasonable but you are near the max toe out.

as another poster suggested, you need to find a alignment guy that aligns a car and corrects as needed to counter improper tire wear. Simply saying it is within specs is not what a good alignment tech will do, especially when there is a wear problem.


note: fast cornering and other abnormal driving habits can cause uncorrectable tire wear problems. For those, the saying. "you want to play, you have to pay" is appropriate.

due to this comment:

here is a link to a primer on alignment.

 

I'll have to try to find a good alignment shop in my area. Thank you all for your imput.
Pumpguy

 

You mention that you're not sure where the wear is coming from since all 4 tires are worn because they've been rotated. Here's a trick from autocrossing that might help out:

Get some white shoe polish and paint on bands of white onto your tire going from the inside sidwall over the tread to the outside sidewall. Then drive it some. When you stop, you'll see where the shoe polish is worn away, you'll probably see more of it worn away on the inside sidewall of the tire where the wear is happenning than where it's not.

If this matches where the alignment is near the spec then it should confirm you're on the right track.

 

Did the guy at the alignment shop mention ..."Cross Camber"?

This is the difference from side to side ...from dead center

With such a wide range, Rule of thumb is no more than .5 difference from left to right. Couple this difference with a Negative toe-in.....and you get the same wheel hop symptoms as a worn Strut or shock.

Did they check the rear wheels......There is always some way to adjust them, .....It just may not be the easiest, or require special Parts......But it is do-able..... Dont rule out front or back until BOTH are checked and corrected.