Torque solutions

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  #1  
Old 05-11-08, 04:01 AM
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Torque solutions

Good morning,

I am looking for some creative ideas regarding the removal of an axle nut. I have not attempted it yet, but all the stuff I read says I should be prepared to swear a little.

I could use this as an excuse to buy a large compressor and a 3/4 impact driver, but since I just got the car, I don't think that is going to fly. I will probably be limited to a 2' cheater bar and socket... combined with my own creativity.

I will assume the nut was torqued to spec the last time it was put on, which is about 350 ftlb. So with a 2 foot cheater and no other resistance (rust, or just heating and cooling), I would have to sit on the 2' bar to break it. I am going to assume the break force will be about double the torque value (is this a good conservative estimate?). I could not do it without extending the cheater, eating a lot of iron, or trying to become creative.

I saw on a website, a recommendation to jack the car up, put the cheater on a jackstand and slowly lower the car, allowing the weight of the car to do the work. It sounds great, but I could see letting the car down too fast and something snapping and lots of metal flying (dangerous). Also, the parking break would have to hold quite well, just because the wheel was off the ground.

This was my thought (above in reverse). Leave the car down, put the jack under the cheater and lift up on the cheater to break the grip. I would think you have more control over the jack on the way up and would be somewhat less likely to snap something.

Any comments? Alternatives?

Thanks
 
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  #2  
Old 05-11-08, 05:57 AM
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If you use a six point, deep well impact socket, and a breaker bar (you may need a three foot piece of pipe), car down, brake on, in park, you can take those off. I don't believe I would resort to lowering the car on the bar or any of that until you have tried the more conventional methods.

Hope this helps,

Bob
 
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Old 05-11-08, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by marbobj View Post
......you may need a three foot piece of pipe...
Or six foot. Hopefully your breaker bar & socket will take the strain.

Friends with any mechanics/garages? You could have them gun them loose and then retighten them to get it home for you to work on. Would then be easier to get off.
 
  #4  
Old 05-11-08, 06:49 AM
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I do not know anyone close by with the proper equipment, otherwise I would do that (I am going to ask around, though). I can buy a 40" cheater, 3/4 drive and get a 1/2" reducer (and use 1/2 impact socket) and see what I can do. All this to replace a wheel bearing that a shop was going to charge ~$500 to do (the dealer was $700 for 1). I should be able to do both for about $80 in parts, $100 in tools and 4-5 hours in labor. It is going to be an adventure (my wife asks why we need 3 cars, now she knows).

I did have an idea, though, I can't believe I let this pass. Today is Mother's day, which would be a perfect excuse to by the compressor and impact wrench for my wife!! I am sure she would let me use it . A move like that could probably win me the "Mother" of the year award .

Happy Mother's day all!!
 
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Old 05-11-08, 12:22 PM
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2 foot breaker, 175 lbs on the end = 350 lbs at the socket. 3 foot breaker 175 lbs. on the end = 525lbs at the socket. so you don't need a long cheater pipe to do the job. also you can put the breaker on and stick a jack under the end and jack it up to break the nut loose. works a lot better than trying to lower a car down onto the breaker bar.

murphy was an optimist
 
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Old 05-11-08, 01:42 PM
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When I do plumbing, I often run into seized/rusted on galvanized pipe parts in 1 1/2-4 inch size, and I carry 2 3- foot cheater pipes where one slides inside the other and I can extend it out to just barely clear sidewalls or whatever might be in the way of 5 foot+ or so of cheater pipe. Then I slide handle of pipe wrench into it, as they stand up to a lot of torque. I have put up to a 2 foot cheater pipe on the handle of my 1/2 inch drive ratchet and not stripped out the ratchet (yet) to my surprise. I've done this many times with that same ratchet.
 
  #7  
Old 05-11-08, 03:40 PM
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In all but the most extreme cases, a 24 inch breaker bar and a six point socket. Before you Jack the car up , or remove the wheels, Have someone sit in the car and hold the brakes.

With a clean rag on the fender, lean on the car, and "Stand-Up" on the breaker bar......Maybe Bounce a few times.....It will pop loose.Jack the car up , remove the wheels,and proceed as intended. when your done, You will tighten it the same way.

There is something very unsettling about letting the weight of the car down on forged steel. Most tools have minimal "FLEX" , so they Break instead of bending. This beomes a SCUD MISSILE to anyone standing in line with the breaking tool.

Just a word of caution.....Dont be tempted to go to a shop and have them loosen the nuts for you......Even 1 or 2 turns is enough for the bearing halves to separate , which you dont want while driving. You may however, as mentioned, Have them "Gunned" off and RETIGHTENED. although this defeats the purpose slightly, it will remove any of the rust in the threads, and removal will be a bit easier.
 
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Old 05-11-08, 04:48 PM
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good idea

I kinda like buying the wife the tools for mothers day thing. I did that once myself with my first wife. Hey tools last a lot longer then stinking flowers IMO.
 
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Old 05-11-08, 05:23 PM
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about 3 mths ago we were removing transmission on my son's toyota corolla.
one side nut came off fine. 2 foot cheat pipe plus long 1/2 drive. i had prybar jammed btween the two studs and floor to prevent it from turning, as brakes simply don't hold.
as of the other side....
i had it tried the regular way; had it soaked in quickwrench overnight; i weigh 275, and i stood on the cheatpipe; i have 2 witnesses that will vouch for me - i had the whole front raised up in the air off jackstands twice trying to break that nut loose; and i bent 2 studs, so much torque i had applied to that wrench; i broke the drive.
well, we sold the car and it's still on that axle. i have no idea how much torque was applied to it, or what else happened to hold it in place that bad. i had them removed many times before, and never had that trouble.
anyways, if life happens, and you simply can't remove the nut - to the hell with it. remove tierod end, ball joint, stabilizer, and remove halfshaft with hub in one piece. it took us only 20 minutes to do this, and 1.5 days of non stop fight with that nut, on and off efforts.
unless you are using ones that they used on bridges, i don't think air tool will break something like this loose. mine didn't.
 
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Old 05-11-08, 06:06 PM
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Could you have applied a torch, or wasn't that feasible for safety or melting something or in some confined location you were dealing with? Also, wouldn't air gun apply more of a jarring action to free it up? Also, they have 3/4 drive tools also, don't they? There is also the "it isn't getting the best of me" factor, that you also have to weigh in.
 
  #11  
Old 05-11-08, 06:24 PM
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Could you have applied a torch,
2 Situations come to mind here...

1---The "AXLE" threads are "Fine" pitch. If they are damaged in any way, the nut will not go back on when youre finished......Axle replacement would be necessary.

2--The threaded end of the axle shaft is usually "Hardened" steel, and the heat could disturb its "INTEGRITY". You dont want the Shaft to stress crack under load at the worst possible time......Usually tearing up a Transmission in the process.

if life happens, and you simply can't remove the nut - to the hell with it. remove tierod end, ball joint, stabilizer, and remove halfshaft with hub in one piece.
This is an option, But you are still left with the nut siezed on the axle shaft. Even the biggest of VISES, is no comparison to the weight of a Vehicle.

You didnt mention the type of vehicle, but if this is a "Pressed" in bearing, Removing the whole deal will work for you, and the Machinist will remove the nut for you when he presses the bearing out.
 
  #12  
Old 05-11-08, 07:25 PM
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if the brakes wouldnot hold with someone sitting in the car jamming their foot on them they need some work, they will overcome the engine with full throttle when in good shape.
should have just hit the side of the nut several times with a good cold chisel the nut will not be reusable but it will come off then.

murphy was an optimist
 
  #13  
Old 05-15-08, 10:59 AM
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Update

Here is an update, got a 2 foot cheater and a 1 foot (essentially) extension. I stood (220#) on the cheater and could not get it to budge. I tried the weight of the car thing, the cheater fell off the jack when I tried to raise it and the parking brake gave way when I tried it in reverse (lowering the car... note, I had a mattress covering everything when using the weight of the car to absorb any impact if it broke and pieces flew).

I have not purchases a compressor (which I needed anyhow) and an impact wrench (which I do not really need, but it will be fun anyhow) with supposedly 900 ft lbs of torque. I am trying tonight, keeping my fingers crossed.
 
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Old 05-15-08, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedwrench View Post
if the brakes wouldnot hold with someone sitting in the car jamming their foot on them they need some work, they will overcome the engine with full throttle when in good shape.
should have just hit the side of the nut several times with a good cold chisel the nut will not be reusable but it will come off then.

murphy was an optimist
can't start the engine if the car sits exhaust pipe back into garage. so, without power assist, i turned them rotors just like this, with brakes ppedal pressed down.
donno how much that corolla weighs, but "use weight of the vehicle" principle was applied, as i had that car raised up in the air. all i know is that i deadlift 400 pounds. times cheatpipe length...
well, enough bragging. dave, for the sake of buying/renting a compressor, and for 900lbs of torque wrench you'll need a good one, plus impact wrench, etc - i'd remove the axle with the hub and bring it to machine shop and let them "gididdone". i forgot to mention - strut will have to be removed either, unfortunately, with following realignment involved.
let us know if that impact wrench worked. i have my 50 pennies on "no". 200+lbs bouncing on a 2feet long cheatpipe - that's a lot of force applied. probably more than that impact wrench.
 
  #15  
Old 05-15-08, 08:43 PM
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with a impact it is the blows per min that gets the job done, works much better than a dead lift, or standing on breaker bar.,
even with the engine off brakes should hold the vehicle.
 
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