91 yota overheat & oil pushed out

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  #1  
Old 05-19-08, 03:37 PM
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91 yota overheat & oil pushed out

91 toyota corolla 1.6L ? [motor was swapped out with another 1 year ago and not sure of size] daughter was driving on interstate and felt a couple small jerks then started to slow down, white smoke came out from under hood. I got there, out of coolant and leaked oil - 8" circle on ground- and around mid to lower timing cover--plus had sprayed around, most likely from belts & wind. Oil level was fine.
Filled with water, overflow also...[noticed hose that goes from rad to overflow was 90% cut, no tape with, wrapped a plastic bag tightly around hose] turned over fine, but no pop at all, started blowing water out of overflow & where hose was broken. Almost dark so tow job.
Next day started, idles ok after a bit, has a miss/bog ?.. when giving it gas.
gonna put a new overflow hose on and drain - refill with coolant. is this possibly a cam/crank shaft seal?
Going to have to go to a shop cause its needed back to fast unless its something easier. any ideas helpful
asked if she noticed her heat gauge going up and she doesnt look at it
 
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Old 05-19-08, 03:53 PM
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Sounds like a blown engine to me, but lets wait for a pro to answer.
 
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Old 05-19-08, 03:54 PM
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Was radiator cap on tight when it started to gush out the overflow. If the radiator cap is good and on tight, you have a real problem if coolant comes flying out the overflow. If the pressure cap was weak it still should not come flying out the overflow right away.

This does not sound like avery good situation you have there. Often girls do not understand about the damage a low coolant level/overheating can cause to the engine if one does not catch this in time and stop driving.
 
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Old 05-19-08, 04:09 PM
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Blown head gasket and warped head are distinct possibilities. Going to need some garage work to confirm.

Agree with ecman, but the girls don't have a corner on that; I've towed plenty of DOA cars driven too far by guys who didn't comprehend the potential damage of driving, "to the next exit" or "just a couple of miles to the house", after getting symptoms of a problem.

That could be a 1.6 or 1.8. Long time ago they were 1.6's, then Toy went to 1.8. Think they went back to 1.6 for a while in about that timeframe.
 
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Old 05-19-08, 04:11 PM
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Additional note. With the engine cooled down, remove the radiator cap and start the engine. If Old Faithful erupts, blown head gasket at a minimum.
 
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Old 05-19-08, 04:43 PM
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oh yeah it did that right off the bat when i had her first turn it over...I wanted to add more water when it sucked it down and up in my face it went. will be back when I get a diag on it thanks guys
 
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Old 05-20-08, 04:30 AM
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Be a good idea to try to find the source of the original overheating that started the chain of events. And of course a lesson for the daughter on warning lights and guages wouldn't hurt. Might have been something beyond anyone's control, but on the other hand it could have been a $10 repair at the time.
 
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Old 05-20-08, 12:25 PM
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Talked to a mechanic and right off the bat he says head gasket and good chance of a cracked head...have to test to find out more. When mentioned oil out by timing cover, he said, yes a oil passageway there....

more to follow
 
  #9  
Old 05-23-08, 12:20 AM
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Did a oil pressure test and got
100 on one
? on two (you will see)
50 on three (with some rad fluid on the plug)
100 on four


The plug wire would NOT come off # two, after trying everything it was ruined, no big deal, but the stupid plastic shaft stayed put! The shaft gradually broke into pieces except for the bottom that you cannot get to! Got that out, but the rubber bottom that goes on the plug is a huge pain! Gave up on that one to see if that even matters.
Now have a couple weeks on this.
 
  #10  
Old 05-23-08, 05:12 AM
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Should be able to get the plug problem taken care of by removing the valve cover. Those through-the-valve-cover plug connectors can be like that.

I'm guessing you mean a "wet" compression test on the cylinders. You probably didn't need the oil since you were checking for a blown head gasket. Looks like the head gasket is blown at #3 or possibly between #2 & 3 depending on what #2 reads when you get the plug out. Finding coolant on the #3 plug pretty much makes the rest of the excercise academic.

On the bright side, this will keep you from wasting your time over the weekend doing stuff like swimming, boating, and laying around.
 
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Old 05-23-08, 03:28 PM
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Did remove the valve cover and the "shafts" around the plugs stay where they are. I think they are aluminum and am not sure how to remove them for fear of damage.
Never have done a compression test any other way than just testing it.
Curious how to tell if there is damage to the block other than visible?
 
  #12  
Old 05-24-08, 05:49 AM
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Oh. Toyota must have redesigned that valve cover. I thought I recollected that the "tube" was attached to the cover so that when you removed the cover the plug was exposed. Has to be some way to get them off; I can't imagine they're permanently attached to the head. They could be pressed into place maybe. Hopefully someone will educate us.

You used the phrase "oil pressure test". I took that to mean a compression test with a bit of oil squirted in the cylinder. This is commonly done to confirm worn rings.

I wouldn't totally discount it, but a cracked block would be much more unlikely than a simple blown head gasket or blown head gasket with a warped head. Cracked block you would likely have coolant in the oil. I don't think you said; is the oil okay or is it milky?
 
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Old 05-27-08, 03:56 AM
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Yeah Tow Guy, I meant compression test..to tired to think at times!

The oil looked ok, so it looks like this is a head problem. I didnt do anything with it over the weekend. Had hoped someone would have chimed in on the "tube" removal ... oh well there is always another way!

Got the Acura on the road for the first time. Still needs work, but a "quick ride" compared to the 98 Ram
 
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Old 05-27-08, 04:10 AM
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Think you're probably spinning your wheels. The head certainly has to come off for gasket replacement and you must send it to a machine shop to be checked. Let them take care of the plug.
 
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Old 05-28-08, 09:59 PM
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Found one way to get the rubber end out of the tubes. Was told to take a heavy coat hanger bend the end to make a short hook, slide it down the side of the plug, turn it and try to hook the rubber. Sometimes it hooks and sometimes it will tear it up and it can be removed. A little practice with the type of hook helps.
As you said Tow Guy..I don't have to do it, but I thought others might want to find out one way to do it.

When I took off the valve cover it was getting dark and I messed with the "tube problem" ... I never took a close look at the head. I just finished taking off everything thats needed [except for the head] and I cant believe that I have to remove the cams to get the head off!!! I have never had to do that. Going to read up on it some tonight. Trying to double check things cause I'm not sure of the engine that is in this thing, due to the swap out before my daughter got it. Any special gotchas on this as its a first time for me? ... A bit wordy tonight....

OH YEAH!! THIS THING OVERHEATED BECAUSE OF THE TEAR IN THE OVERFLOW HOSE TO THE CATCH CAN!!! ... that and of course my Daughter not watching the gauge!
 
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Old 05-29-08, 04:25 AM
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Has to be more than just a torn overflow hose. Cars drove around for about 50 years before someone invented the catch tank. Just means when there is some overflow from expansion it would not be captured. Eventually the system would be short a pint or so of coolant. I would be triple checking everything else. I don't think you mentioned the age/mileage on the engine, but if you are going to do the head & gasket (please do NOT pass up the step of having the head inspected at a machine shop), I would include water pump, thermostat, radiator cap, all hoses, & a radiator flush in the job.

Check the repair info on AutoZone's website; it's usually pretty good although not quite as good as a Haynes or Chilton's manual.
 
  #17  
Old 05-29-08, 09:13 PM
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Definitely taking head to a machine shop. Planned on doing everything you mentioned towguy, cant understand it when people put on a timing chain for example and not a water pump etc. Double checking on the reason it overheated, will get back to you. thanks
 
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Old 06-18-08, 11:43 PM
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Brought this back up with a little new info.
tow guy, I should not have worded it the way I did using the catch can phrase, that puts something else totally in ones mind.

Info from two places-auto shop & also from a retired yota mechanic. It is hard to remember all ...which means I forgot some stuff! ... and cant write it down as its being said so I have just put info together and let it go.
radiators have changed - smaller in a lot of these cars-no air in radiator - oxygen increases the corrosiveness - rad is pressurized - valve in system.

Short on this is that bad overflow hose to recapture system can make car overheat over long term.
 
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Old 06-19-08, 04:46 AM
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I would agree with that if it is the type of system where the radiator pressure cap is actually on the catch tank. If it's a standard radiator cap setup I would still maintain you could drive without a catch tank and you would initially loose some coolant, but after that would probably not notice any difference.

Going to whistle up couple of the other regulars here for opinions.
 
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Old 06-19-08, 03:12 PM
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Yikes, it's hard to follow this thread....

Are we trying to determine the condition of the head, or the catalyst of the problem? If there were leaks leading up to this problem, you definetly would have smelt the antifreeze.

When they changed the motor, could they have left a plug of some sort in the radiator hose(s)?

Water pump?
 
  #21  
Old 06-19-08, 07:14 PM
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This post seems to have gotten way too complicated. The fact of the matter is, you have at the very least a blown head gasket. The oil leak and the difficulty with the spark plug boot are both irrelevant at this point. Before you take the head off, pressurize the system and see if there is another leak somewhere. It is possible, and quite probable that you have another leak that was the root cause. It is also possible that it was just time for the head gasket to go. As has been said several times the overflow hose isnt going to cause this type of failure unless the coolant wasnt reaching the overflow bottle for quite a long time. No matter the size of the radiator.
A radiator pressure cap is designed to maintain a specific amount of pressure in the cooling system. If the pressure exceeds the caps rating then the caps design allows release into the overflow tank. Once the pressure returns to normal then the cap closes and maintains the pressure. When the system cools and a vacuum is detected the cap will once again "open" pulling coolant back into the radiator to maintain the level. This is a regularly occuring event during normal operation. If the overflow hose were busted as you state, the coolant would never reach the tank and therefore when the system begins to draw coolant back it would only draw air. This is still a very small amount at each occurance, so it would take time to become a problem unless there was excessive pressure on the system... ie a degraded or blown head gasket.
Once you determine the existence of any other leaks then remove the head and take it to a machine shop for testing. Replace everything that is defective and go from there.
Hope this helps ya,
Billy
 
  #22  
Old 06-19-08, 11:47 PM
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Yeah the thread is a mess, someone putting in a different motor is complicating things here. The head was warped..could pay 96 bucks to have it shaved, but because its aluminum and its a DOHC, a cam could break. To do it right.....
heated and straighted
shaved
valve job
shim the solid lifters to match the cam
(shim could be the wrong word...sorry, tired and its late)
Hope I didnt forget anything...and it will cost 472 bucks! Way to much, looking for another head...or engine if I have to.

Complicating things is a big fact that yota makes a lot of different engines and there are no markings on the valve cover, only a 6 in one place and a C in another on the head. The stamping on the block is of little help, but after some leg work it looks to be the 4AEF that is supposed to be in there. Found a head with cams for $100 with a 90 day guarantee.

The overflow hose had a good size hole in it where you could not see it, but everything will be replaced during the rebuild to make sure.

My daughter would never have been able to smell anything and recognize it, heck she didn't look at the heat gauge She never noticed any fluid leaking either.... course she wasn't looking much!

chapter 32 next
 
  #23  
Old 07-16-08, 12:32 AM
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UPDATE Time-- Got another head for $100, took it to the head shop and it was good to go as is! Great news for my daughter.

All the problems trying to find out which motor was put in this thing ..... and my son just noticed it said which one on the old head gasket!!

Got to talk to a super import mechanic/shop owner of many years and he said he doubted the overflow hose caused the overheating, said it would be possible though over a long time.
 
  #24  
Old 07-16-08, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by the_tow_guy View Post
Has to be more than just a torn overflow hose....
Great minds think alike.
 
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