2000 Sephia= Rattle in bell housing

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  #1  
Old 08-08-08, 03:47 PM
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Question 2000 Sephia= Rattle in bell housing

A rattle has developed in my 2000 Kia Sephia. It sounded at first like a heat shield on the catalitic converter. I took it to my mechanic who used a stethoscope and tracked the sound to inside the bell housing. Looking into the inspection hole, you can see the flywheel and a few of the bolts holding it to the torque converter. A couple of these bolts look like they are newly scuffed slightly. What would be inside the bell housing that they could be rubbing on causing this rattle under load in gear? It is an automatic and the trans works great. It's just this noise that is driving me nuts. It doesn't do it in neutral. Only in drive under load. Once speed has been reached it stops. To check into it deeper it going to cost 5 hours of labor just to drop the trans and remove the bell housing.
 
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  #2  
Old 08-08-08, 04:26 PM
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First thing I'd do is see if I can't get a wrench on those bolts attaching torque converter to flywheel, and check if they are tight. If they are, my guess is you have a cracked flywheel. Sorry.
 
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Old 08-08-08, 05:13 PM
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Could it be excessive endplay in a shaft that connects everything to the transmission, or maybe engine? Under load maybe the shaft then takes a too far shift in or out. My drive shaft did that in a vehicle of mine when the pinion gear bearing went out.

Just curious, Mike, but if the flywheel were just cracked and not in pieces, what would cause the rub? You'd think if the flywheel were at all out of whack, then the starter gear would hang up or grind or bind or something like that.

Loose bolts coupled with some end play - that I can see.
 
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Old 08-08-08, 07:06 PM
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Cracked flywheel rattles under load(while accelerating) and loose flywheel/torque converter bolts rattle when unloaded( in neutral or at cruising speed). Sorry for the bad news but my guess is a cracked flywheel.
 
  #5  
Old 08-09-08, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by wire twister View Post
Cracked flywheel rattles under load(while accelerating) and loose flywheel/torque converter bolts rattle when unloaded( in neutral or at cruising speed). Sorry for the bad news but my guess is a cracked flywheel.
Thanks guys! Guess I know what has to be done. Have any of you done this before, or had it done for you? I trust my mechanic as I worked for him a few years back. Just wondering if he's correct on the labor time he quoted me to remove the bell housing. "5 hours". If thats the case, seems I'm looking at about 10-12 hours labor and the cost of a new flywheel, and or any bearings he finds that might be bad. I can get a used flywheel from the local salvage yard which might save me a few bucks. With 200,000 kmh on the car, I de like to think a used one would do me, as a new one is about $300 -$400.
 
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Old 08-09-08, 01:37 PM
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Twister,

I am open to learning more about this. Can you explain the dynamics of what happens with the crack to cause the rattle? Like, under load, does this crack allow the flywheel to bend out of plane? (If so, why? How would load cause any change to flywheel?) But then when you simply idle, or start the engine, all appears normal as it back in plane again? Looking for absolute answer on how this leads to rattle sound.
 
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Old 08-09-08, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Twister,

I am open to learning more about this. Can you explain the dynamics of what happens with the crack to cause the rattle? Like, under load, does this crack allow the flywheel to bend out of plane? (If so, why? How would load cause any change to flywheel?) But then when you simply idle, or start the engine, all appears normal as it back in plane again? Looking for absolute answer on how this leads to rattle sound.
If you have a crack the 2 sides/edges of the crack, will flex or move differently, causing a rattle. I've had front wheel drives, that had cracked flywheels that you would have swore was a piston rod going. 3 experienced ( 35-40 yrs between them)licence mechanics & myself swore it was a rod going, in cylinder closest to transaxle. removed transaxle to discover the flywheel was cracked all around the 4 or 5 bolts that held it to the crankshaft, and allowing flex, that sounded like an engine knock. Any crack, in a flywheel will allow it to flex slightly in that area. If it flexes enough, the bolts attached to the torque converter can hit back of engine casting in some cases. My guess is the bolts are scarred on engine side of flywheel. Torque converter will move toward engine with it.
 
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Old 08-09-08, 05:37 PM
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Ecman, look for another mechanic. It should not take any longer than 5 hrs to remove and replace the trans. as for removing the bell housing, it and the trans are one piece with an automatic trans so there should be no extra time to remove it. As for the price of a flywheel, I have never seen a flywheel for an auto trans cost that much, that may be an inflated price. Autozone lists one for a manual trans. for 132.00 dollars the one for an auto should not be much more.
 
  #9  
Old 08-10-08, 08:24 AM
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I'd also be tempted to get a quote from a transmission place where they do this type of work all the time. Just be careful they don't scare you into something else, just what you need for now.
 
  #10  
Old 08-10-08, 08:45 AM
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The part shouldnt be much more than $65.00, and the labor to R&R the Flex plate according to Alldata is 3.6 hours. This is remove and replace, not just remove. If he's talking about 5X2 to R&R then you need to look elsewhere. If the bolts on the flex plate have fresh marks then there is either something broken of the bolts are loose like previously mentioned. The Torque converter moves in and out under normal operation and if something is weak or broken it will cause more flex than normal.
Hope this helps ya,
Billy
 
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Old 08-10-08, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by wire twister View Post
Ecman, look for another mechanic. It should not take any longer than 5 hrs to remove and replace the trans., .....
???

Did you mean to type my name, or did you mean SSJ?
 
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Old 08-10-08, 09:03 AM
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We jumped from talking about flywheels, to now the word Flex plate is mentioned. Are they one-in-the-same part?

Mike. B,

Thanks for your detailed explanation.
 
  #13  
Old 08-10-08, 09:12 AM
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ecman
Flex plates attach the torque converter in an Automatic to the crank. Sorta the same function as a flywheel but no friction surface and much lighter. More like a moving mounting bracket, with teeth on the outer rim for the starter.

OP said flywheel, and maybe the terms are sometimes interchangable now...dunno. I always said flex-plate for autos and flywheels for manuals
 
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Old 08-10-08, 09:15 AM
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I have seen many cracked flywheels. Mostly on Chrysler products. The way in which the flywheel is cracked or broken determines on the noise and when it happens. I have had some that make no noise at all idling and some that knock like crazy at idle. I just diagnosed a cracked flywheel in a Jeep Cherokee a month or so ago where the customer was sure the engine was knocking. It was all quiet when it was cold. Once it warmed up, it started knocking and got worse at off idle acceleration. It sounded just like a rod knock. When we removed the transmission the flywheel (flexplate) was cracked all the way around the perimeter of the bolt holes. With a little coersion the certer piece came out. This was allowing the plate to move in several different directions without rhyme or reason. The fact that it changed when the engine warmed was most likely a coincidence, but possible the effect of the steel plate warming as the engine warmed. This can be a false symptom and can easiy lead a tech down the wrong path.
Billy
 
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Old 08-13-08, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunguy45 View Post
ecman
Flex plates attach the torque converter in an Automatic to the crank. Sorta the same function as a flywheel but no friction surface and much lighter. More like a moving mounting bracket, with teeth on the outer rim for the starter.

OP said flywheel, and maybe the terms are sometimes interchangable now...dunno. I always said flex-plate for autos and flywheels for manuals
Not to mix you up more, but "Ring gear" is another term I've heard used over the years. (ha-ha) sorry. It's like one guy calling an adjustable wrench, a crecent wrench, or spud wrench ??
 
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Old 08-14-08, 09:19 AM
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And IIRC, used to be that you could replace the "ring gear" separately from the flywheel, by heating and pressing. That may have only been on bigger or older engines, not sure.
 
  #17  
Old 08-21-08, 04:51 PM
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Thumbs up Problem Solved!

Thanks to all for info where to start looking. I took the Transaxle assembly apart from engine and checked flywheel for cracks. "Nothing." Upon further inspection the thin metal, gasket like plate that fits between the bell housing and engine block had a small chunk of corossion between the two, causing a slight bulge in the plate. Appears the bolts on the flywheel were rubbing on this plate slightly causing it to vibrate and "hence" the rattle. How the corrosion there got started! Who knows? I took a disc sander, cleaned the mating surface, and reassembled it. No more noise! Total labour for R+R = 6 hours. No parts and a happy driver again.
 
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Old 08-21-08, 05:10 PM
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Do you mean that tin of metal that covers the bottom of the bell housing? That vertical piece of metal in by the starter, to keep out dirt? If so, you had to take off the transaxle to fix this? Or did you already unbolt the transaxle, thinking that the flywheel inside, was the problem?

If I'm not right about what that piece of metal is - then what IS it?

Great to hear you fixed it yourself, successfully, regardless.
 
  #19  
Old 08-22-08, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Do you mean that tin of metal that covers the bottom of the bell housing? That vertical piece of metal in by the starter, to keep out dirt? If so, you had to take off the transaxle to fix this? Or did you already unbolt the transaxle, thinking that the flywheel inside, was the problem?

If I'm not right about what that piece of metal is - then what IS it?

Great to hear you fixed it yourself, successfully, regardless.
The metal piece I refer to is the actual gasket that goes between the bell housing and engine. All the way around! Unlike most paper gaskets, this is thin metal, stainless, i think. Almost tin like! I did think the flywheel was the problem and had a crack in it causing the rattle. Thats why I took it apart. This plate, (or gasket) I cann't remember the actual name for , sticks out inside the bellhousing about an inch, unlike most flush fit gaskets, and that little bulge caused by the corrosion, was enough to push it into the way of the flywheel bolts, causing a rattle.
 
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