93 2.2 Sundance high HC level

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Old 03-24-09, 09:50 AM
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93 2.2 Sundance high HC level

1993 Plymouth Sundance
2.2 automatic
185,000 Km

It failed the HC part of the emmision test on run and passed the idle part
Not buy much ( 85 instead of 60)ppm

Black soot on inside tailpipe indicating rich

Transaxle sometimes gets stuck in 2nd gear then shifts after.
Exhaust was repaired 3 months ago. I see only a CAT and a straight pipe then the muffler. ( I think they saved a bit of money by not replacing the resonator.
The temperature gauge sometimes goes high and last nite it was fine when I looked at it but why my brother drove it an hour home, it did not get off the cold mark.

We put new plugs in and the old ones were quite worn the the gaps opened quite a bit. Looks to be burning well

Replaced air filter and the old one looked good

On board codes just say "55"


I am wondering if the temp sensor could be making the computer think it is cold and enriching the mixture.
But I think there are 2 sensors. One for the gauge and one for the computer. Could they both go? And mess the signal to the computer?
My brother is replacing the thermostat and senor today.

The missing (I think) resonator I think could make it run rich.
But could it run rich during the run test and be fine during the idle test.

We are going to take it back next day and see if it passes
 
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Old 03-24-09, 03:20 PM
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would suspect that it probably wasnt up to temp when they did the test and suspect that the thermostat may solve that problem.
if it hasnt had the oil changed recently you might consider changing the oil also as it will contribute to higher emmisions readings.
high HC wich is uburnt fuel isnt necassarily caused by a rich condition. during a rich condition the car will likely fail CO and HC, a lean condition such as a vacum leak or misfire can make the HC go out of spec.
 
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Old 03-24-09, 04:26 PM
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In my '91 Spirt Haynes manual code 55 means end of engine code. In other words, it is not a problem code number. I would not doubt the same code still applies to your 2.2 Sundance. The Sundance is simply a smaller Spirit, and the 2.2L is vriturally same as the 2.5L.

I'm glad I do not live where there is vehicle inspections(yet). They can make you have to go out and spend your money(they probably enjoy doing that to people especially when they know they have no money), or not allow you to drive the car, even if it works. Big Brother doing it's job.
 
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Old 03-24-09, 06:50 PM
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CO Ok????............Hi HC can be a result of burning oil (185,000 makes that a STRONG possibility)... Other thing to do is back the timing off a few degrees. That'll usually drop the HC and you don't need much.
Ecman I unfortunately live in a state that has no safety inspection. Many of Floridas cars could not be registered in other states for safety reasons........I don't want to get crazy, but when I see a parent loading an infant into a car I know has no brakes or has steel coming out of the tires it just makes me crazy.
Do I ENJOY the concept of taking a persons mobility???? No I wouldn't, but I ask how many LIVES might be saved if Florida enforced a safety inspection????. Can't pay to fix the car??? How ya gonna pay for the ER?????
 
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Old 03-25-09, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wrench47 View Post
, but I ask how many LIVES might be saved if Florida enforced a safety inspection
Maybe they do not have it because they fiogured if that enforced THAT, they also might have to enforce 90 year old snowbird drivers down there who can't turn their stiff necks enough, when changing lanes, to notice the car or motorcycle next to them. I know all about those old-fogy drivers down there.

In all seriousness, your point was well taken.
 
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Old 03-25-09, 06:42 PM
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Thanks for the tips
RW I might do the retarding of timing a couple of degrees
I dont know much of how the new cars work (New meaning last 20 years)
So I have a timing light and I can bump back the base initial timeing a couple degrees and the ECM wont compensate for it?

Its my sisters car and she is 2.5 hours away and we both have busy lives. So I met my bro who drove the car half way and I expected to see an old oil burner 2.2. To my surprise the car is like it has 80,000km instead of 185,000km
I worked in a scrap yard for 7 years and seen plenty old 2.2 and this one look good (we know looks can be deceptive)
My bro put new plugs in and we pulled them at the coffee shop we meet at and they were burning real nice. The old ones that must have been in it forever, looked like they were burning nice too. Large gaps though.

I told my bro to change the trans speed sensor in hope to cure the "car jump and stay in 2nd gear" problem.
I also think that could be a factor in the test if it jumped to second gear when in the test.

I do not know of the emision tests or what they do. I have never had to go thru one. They are not this far North yet.
But where my sis and other bro are the tests are every 2 years. There is a Max amount of money spent. $450 and then you get the ticket whether it passes or not.
The emission test is separate from the safety tests.
We had safety test all my life here in Ontario.
I cant imaging anyplace with no safety laws.
Sort of like houses with no code.
Not putting anybody or place down, just commenting on how different different parts of the same continent can be a different place.

So WR. I can bump back the base timing a bit and the ECM wont compensate. Right
 
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Old 03-26-09, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by frankiee View Post
Thanks for the tips
RW I might do the retarding of timing a couple of degrees
I dont know much of how the new cars work (New meaning last 20 years)
So I have a timing light and I can bump back the base initial timeing a couple degrees and the ECM wont compensate for it?
I really do not have the answer to this. Maybe someone else does. But I would presume retarding timing would make emissions worse since you'd think there woudl be more umburned fuel going out the tailpipe.

..........emision tests............. every 2 years. There is a Max amount of money spent. $450 and then you get the ticket whether it passes or not.
What do you mean? You do not have to spend any more than $450, if you have a problem?


The emission test is separate from the safety tests.
Interesting. Seperate in which way? You'd think you would be there at the test facility and they would write you up for anything they find wrong, and it be up to you, and to spend whatever it takes to fix safety and emmissions. So please explain how you mean they are seperate. Like, will they allow you to drive the car for a while (before you get it repaired) if emmissions are bad?, but red-tag your car if say the front end is ready to fall off?
 
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Old 03-26-09, 02:57 PM
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would probably just set timing to specs would suspect it is already a few degrees slow if it hasnt been checked in a while.
the computer does control spark advance but the computer also assumes base timing is set correctly if its not its still going to advance the timing the same amount over base so if specs is lets say 12 degrees and you set it to 5 degrees you just dropped the computers ability of total advance by 7 degrees and the car would likely have noticable less power while driving.
when you do check base timing remeber to disconnect the coolant temp sensor to check it or adjust it if needed then plug it back in when your done.
 
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Old 03-26-09, 06:30 PM
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Add a couple of small bottles of gasline antifreeze to some fresh fuel, and take it out for a good drive & let it rev good on acceleration a couple of times,prior to test to get that catalytic converter heated up good. We go through this all the time in Ontario Canada, and a lot of times it's just that the converter didn't get heated up to optimum temperature before test.
 
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