No timing marks-help with manual timing

Reply

  #1  
Old 10-08-09, 11:07 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
No timing marks-help with manual timing

I have this 1984 Ford F-150 6 cyl. The plate over the flywheel is so rusted that even after cleaning the marks are unreadable. So, just for giggles, I turned the engine over with a ratchet until the rotor was under cylinder #1 button on the distributor cap. I looked down at the flywheel and the timing mark is no where to be seen. Shouldn't the timing mark be at least somewhere within the range of the marks on the plate?
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-08-09, 11:53 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,750
Not necessarily. That thing has a computer involved in the timing. You have to take the computer out of it to set the base timing. With automatic, it's 10 degrees BTC.

It should have a connector with a shorting bar on it. You pull off the bar then set the base timing.
 
  #3  
Old 10-08-09, 03:53 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
Aha! So [I]that's[I]what they are talking about! I was reading the emissions label under the hood and it says to disconnect the single black wire/connector near the distributor and time to 10 degrees BTDC. Damn if I know which wire thet are talking about. There is a connector attached to a module at the base of the distributor and there is a smaller connector attached to the coil. Other than that, I don't see squat. I guess now that I know it goes to the computer, I can try to find that and trace back to find the wire/connector they are talking about.
I have it pretty close I think. It idles much better and doesn't stall when I come to a stop but it has no power and has some after run/dieseling.
 
  #4  
Old 10-08-09, 04:00 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
Remember that by just turning the rotor a tiny, the flywheel turns a big distance, since flyweel to rotor rotation is 2:1. And to amplify the scenario worse yet, the rotor circumference is a fraction of what a flywheel circumference is.

If I were you, I'd play around with rotating that rotor each way some, and look for some deep dimple or slit in the flywheel, if there were numbers on that rusty plate. If there were numbers on it, then that would mean there is a mark on the flywheel, obviously. They woudn't just have numbers with no reference point. I do not know your engine. My advice is general info.

Since you are requesting info about timing, is it possible(the way the vehicle runs or does not even rrun?) the timing is maybe way off?, and that is why you are asking? If so, rotate the flywheel slowly all the way around, and look for the mark, as you go - if there is one.
 
  #5  
Old 10-08-09, 05:38 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
The root problem I am trying to solve is that it stalls when you come to a stop. Here is what I accomplished today. A few days ago, I removed the automatic choke and put a manual choke on. I did this because when it stalled at an intersection or light, I had to take the air cleaner off, close the butterfly, jam it shut with my pocket knife, get back in, start the engine, get back out and remove my knife and then I could drive away. I got tired of that pretty quick so I put a manual choke on.
Now today, I turned the idle mixture screw all the way in and then backed it off two turns. Then I turned the distributor clockwise a pretty good bit and watched the timing mark slide all the way down that plate and almost disappear. But, it was idling much better than it ever had even though it developed a case of run on. When I attempted to take it for a test drive, I noticed a bad hesitation and lack of power but it did not stall when I stopped.
I started turning the distributor counter clockwise until I got my power back and the hesitation disappeared. I still had run on so I kept going. Now it stalls when I even think about stopping.
So, now I am going back down and turning the distributor clockwise again until it doesn't stall and I'll worry about the run on tomorrow.

I should have mentioned a little history and given some more information about the truck, sorry. This is a 1984 F-150 with a straight six, automatic transmission with overdrive. From what I can gather, some years ago, it developed some type of fuel delivery isssue and no one could resolve it so the guy bought a new truck and parked this one for some years. It only has 80,000 mile on it. One of the fuel tanks had a bad leak in a place that tends to gather water. I drained the front tank and saw what looked like a 50/50 mix of gas and water plus a boatload of rust.
I dropped the tank, hosed all the loose rust out, took it down to bare metal and repaired all the leaks. I put six coats of Rustoleum primer on it and put it back in.
The fuel tank switch didn't work because it was a solid lump of rust and I cleaned it up and got it working. Next, I have to take both tanks down because the gas gauge doesn't work so I am assuming it's the sender units in the tanks.

Let's see, what did I forget? We won't even talk about the brakes.
 
  #6  
Old 10-08-09, 06:43 PM
hopkinsr2's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: canada
Posts: 1,563
Is it cool & damp in your area?? Do you have the carb preheat system all hooked up ?? Does the vacuum motor work the door in the air cleaner that draws warm air from around the exhaust manifold heat shield & is the paper hose in good shape from this shield to the air cleaner... This system will cause lots of stalling, hesitating & other driveability symptoms if not working properly... & may have been the cause of the fuel delivery issue that caused the owner to park the truck years ago.... Roger
 
  #7  
Old 10-09-09, 09:43 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
I looked all over for that tube. No luck. There is no preheat tube from the exhaust manifold. There's a place for it on the breather but even if the tube was present, there is no ploace for it to go. The paper tube is around here someplace, I'll find it.
This morning I took the manual choke back off and put the automatic on. I tried to follow the directions in the manual for adjusting the carb. How do you adjust the curb idle speed? I see three screw; mixture screw on one side, idle screw and cold idle screw.
I found the connector for the computer, disconnected it and checked the timing. It didn't do me much good as I can't read the graduations on the engine plate.
For now, it starts, runs pretty good but still stalls if I stop too quickly and is a ***** to start if that happens. I have to pump the hell out of the gas pedal or get out, take off the breather and hold the choke closed.
One more item that may or may not have some bearing. When I first got the truck, I noticed that the module at the base of the distributor was hanging loose. I found some screws and fastened it back on. It's snug and all but could a connection inside have been damaged?
 
  #8  
Old 10-09-09, 02:42 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,750
If that is your ignition module for this animal, they mount up against the distributor base with a heat transfer grease to help move the heat out of the module. Without it the module heats up and acts up, especially after the truck has been running.

After a while they just give up altogether.

However, that stalling when you stop quickly is more in the area of an IAC jobby. Since you have to choke it, I would say that thing could be sticking on you.
 
  #9  
Old 10-09-09, 03:45 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
Would a 'carburetor', that has mixture adjustment screws (3 screws he says) have an IAC? I thought these were just on throttle body vehicles with no way to adjust anything(no adjustment screws). Does he have a carb with needle and seat and float and accelerator pump and idle jet?, or not? Does he have a mechanical fuel pump? He said nothing about an electric one in his tank. If a mechanical fuel pump, he would have a carb.

I wish I knew that engine of his better. I just made a post about general mechanical theories on older mechanical-vacuum distributor and carbed vehicles - but erased it, because I do not even know what creates his timing curve, for example. Or if he needs to be looking at loose timing belt/chain, rebuilding the carb(if that is what he has), or really checking out his advance curve and if it is mechanical or computer driven.

Oh well.
 
  #10  
Old 10-09-09, 04:17 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,750
I believe that engine has the 1 barrel carburetor, but the odd thing about it is it has a lot of the engine management controls that an FI engine has.
 
  #11  
Old 10-09-09, 04:20 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
More info, more info! It has a mechanical fuel pump. This is a motorcraft carb. I thought someone pointed to the carb ans said that is your accelerator pump. It looks like it has a float bowl to me but what do I know. Instructions for timing it tell me to disconnect the computer connection as did marbobj. I found it at last and disconnected it when I put a timing light to it but without the increments on the timing plate, it was a waste of time.
I did find the preheat tube from the exhaust manifold. I found the paper tube for the breather and put it back on.
I'm flushing the radiator and it was idling slower and slower. Then it died. It wouldn't start until I choked it. The idle screw looked pretty tight to me. No way was I messing with the timing tonight so the only other option was to adjust the choke a bit. I closed it up a tad and the idle picked up. Should the butterfly be wide open? I close it up some and it is easier to start and idles better.
You know what? I'm not a drinking man but two Sam Adams is starting to sound pretty good to me.
 
  #12  
Old 10-09-09, 04:28 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,750
Your idle mixture is messed up if you're having to choke it in the way you're describing. When it's warmed up, the choke would be wide open (if all is well).
 
  #13  
Old 10-09-09, 05:40 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
Well, you are no doubt right. But for now, I'm worn out and I still have to go finish 50 sheets of drywall. I found what I thought to be a vavuum line to the choke pull off was really a piece of aquarium hose. When it got warmed up pretty good, it would flatten right out. I replaced it with a piece I scrounged off the junk pile and things got much better. I still have the choke closed just a tad. I took it out for a spin and it didn't stall at the light even though it wanted to. On the trip home, I had to slow down and turn the wheel. It stalled but started right up. Tomorrow I replace all the vacuum hoses and try to dig up someone who really knows how to adjust carburators.
 
  #14  
Old 10-09-09, 06:22 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
Originally Posted by 2muchgrass View Post
But for now, I'm worn out and I still have to go finish 50 sheets of drywall.
Off-topic: Right now? By "finish" do you mean tape and mud? Or do you mean finish hanging the rest of the sheets? Or both? Is that what you do? If so, do you frequent the 2 forums we have here for that?

..........................................................

How many adjustment screws on that carb? 3? Or is it really 2 mixture screws, with the 3rd one controlling idle speed, by how much it opens the throttle? Or is that IAC computer controlled?
 
  #15  
Old 10-09-09, 07:19 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: santa fe /texas
Posts: 998
for ' my'2 cents-does the veh have a vacumm adnance on the dist.?iif so it also has a mechanical advance,springs & weights-under the plate that holds the pick up coil(where the pionts 'used to be") this could be sized-old age no lubrication over the years-'i'used to-on a tune up-remove the rotor-add a drop or 2 of eng oil to the hole under the rotor-where the 2 shafts meet.
the 300" motor is gear to gear as far as crank to cam shaft goes,so you actualy'never' have to fool with base timing.
'if' you take #1 spark plug out-put a long phillips head screw driver-or any5-10"rod in the hole-turn the motor over -BY HAND-determine-by going back &forth at the high point of the piston-travel- pushing the rod out of the spark plug hole.he can find the top dead center of the piston.if you put a mark on the crankshaft pulley when the rod is 1/4" before the top-then a mark when the rod is 1/4" down from the top.
now split the measurement-make a file/hacksaw blade notch-dab it with wtite paint. now you have a timing mark-if the timing indicator pice protruding over the crank pulley has a -wide 'v'grove-that is '0' degree timing-adjust untill your lit indicates 1/2' above the 0 grove.
stumbling/stalling on a turn-hard stop -could be a 'fuel' saturated float.
 
  #16  
Old 10-09-09, 11:27 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Off-topic: Right now? By "finish" do you mean tape and mud? Or do you mean finish hanging the rest of the sheets? Or both? Is that what you do? If so, do you frequent the 2 forums we have here for that?

..........................................................

How many adjustment screws on that carb? 3? Or is it really 2 mixture screws, with the 3rd one controlling idle speed, by how much it opens the throttle? Or is that IAC computer controlled?
Both, actually. No, it isn't what I do for a living but I seem to be doing a lot of it lately. Before this job, it was 150 sheets including 15 12 footers on the ceiling...by myself. I learned some new words on that one.

There are three screws. The one on the passenger side is a mixture screw. At least that is what I have been assuming all this time. The two on the driver's side control idle speeds I think. I'm assuming that, looking at the carb from the driver's side, the screw on the left (both screws are at the rear of the carb) controls warm idle speed and the one on the right controls cold idle speed.
I have been playing with this thing for days now and I'm so close to success I can almost taste it.
 
  #17  
Old 10-09-09, 11:44 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by newtofta View Post
for ' my'2 cents-does the veh have a vacumm adnance on the dist.?iif so it also has a mechanical advance,springs & weights-under the plate that holds the pick up coil(where the pionts 'used to be") this could be sized-old age no lubrication over the years-'i'used to-on a tune up-remove the rotor-add a drop or 2 of eng oil to the hole under the rotor-where the 2 shafts meet.
the 300" motor is gear to gear as far as crank to cam shaft goes,so you actualy'never' have to fool with base timing.
'if' you take #1 spark plug out-put a long phillips head screw driver-or any5-10"rod in the hole-turn the motor over -BY HAND-determine-by going back &forth at the high point of the piston-travel- pushing the rod out of the spark plug hole.he can find the top dead center of the piston.if you put a mark on the crankshaft pulley when the rod is 1/4" before the top-then a mark when the rod is 1/4" down from the top.
now split the measurement-make a file/hacksaw blade notch-dab it with wtite paint. now you have a timing mark-if the timing indicator pice protruding over the crank pulley has a -wide 'v'grove-that is '0' degree timing-adjust untill your lit indicates 1/2' above the 0 grove.
stumbling/stalling on a turn-hard stop -could be a 'fuel' saturated float.
No, there is no vacuum advance. I had to go down and double check that.
I can do the stick trick. I adjust the valves on B&S mower engines pretty frequently. Where would I place the mark on the crankshaft pulley? I should mention that there is already a very visible groove in the pulley. It's just that there is nothing to line it up with. The numbers on the timing indicator piece over the crank pulley are no longer visible. I did not notice if any of the Vees looked any different but there is kind of a sight tube sort of thing on the upper end of it. I had toyed with bringing the groove up to that area but it just seemed like the engine ran so much better at the opposite end.
Could this thing have jumped timing by one tooth?

A saturated float could be very possible. It did sit for 7 years but I am not certain if the present carb is the same one it had for that time. It is definitely not the original carb.
 
  #18  
Old 10-10-09, 05:37 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,750
For Ecman51 - the IAC would be computer controlled. The whole thing is almost a hybrid system. The only thing I can think of you would be able to control with the computer would be the timing, idle mixture/speed and the EGR.

I think I would try to get a $15.00 manual for it with a picture of the timing plate or maybe snap a picture in a salvage yard of one.

In terms of the timing chain jumping a tooth - yes they can do that, but I wouldn't make that assumption just yet. You really need some other things out of the way first.
 
  #19  
Old 10-10-09, 06:43 AM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: santa fe /texas
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by marbobj View Post
For Ecman51 - the IAC would be computer controlled. The whole thing is almost a hybrid system. The only thing I can think of you would be able to control with the computer would be the timing, idle mixture/speed and the EGR.

I think I would try to get a $15.00 manual for it with a picture of the timing plate or maybe snap a picture in a salvage yard of one.

In terms of the timing chain jumping a tooth - yes they can do that, but I wouldn't make that assumption just yet. You really need some other things out of the way first.
these engines are gear to gear as far as the camshaft/drive/timing.
so,it cant 'jump'a tooth-when the cam gear fails-it fails completly
 
  #20  
Old 10-10-09, 07:37 AM
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Near Philly
Posts: 553
I suggest you log onto autozone.com and register your vehicle. There is fairly complete info there on your truck and how to adjust carb, vacuum lines, choke adj, etc...May be easier for you overall. Example:

ADJUSTMENTS

Idle Mixture

For this procedure, Ford recommends a propane enrichment procedure. This requires special equipment not available to the general public. In lieu of this equipment the following procedure may be followed to obtain a satisfactory idle mixture.

1. Block the wheels, set the parking brake and run the engine to bring it to normal operating temperature.

2. Disconnect the hose between the emission canister and the air cleaner.

3. On engines equipped with the Thermactor air injection system, the routing of the vacuum lines connected to the dump valve will have to be temporarily changed. Mark them for reconnection to prevent switching them when reconnecting.

4. For valves with one or two vacuum lines at the side, disconnect and plug the lines.

5. For valves with one vacuum line at the top, check the line to see if it is connected to the intake manifold or an intake manifold source such as the carburetor or distributor vacuum line. If not, remove and plug the line at the dump valve and connect a temporary length of vacuum hose from the dump valve fitting to a source of intake manifold vacuum.

6. Remove the limiter caps from the mixture screws by CAREFULLY cutting them with a sharp knife.

7. Place the transmission in neutral and run the engine at 2,500 rpm for 15 seconds.

8. Place the automatic transmission in Drive; the manual in neutral.

9. Adjust the idle speed to the higher of the two figures given on the underhood sticker.

10. Turn the idle mixture screw(s) to obtain the highest possible rpm, leaving the screw(s) in the leanest position that will maintain this rpm.

11. Repeat Steps 7 through 10 until further adjustment of the mixture screw(s) does not increase the rpm.

12. Turn the screw(s) in until the lower of the two idle speed figures is reached. Turn the screw(s) in 1 / 4 turn increments each to insure a balance.

13. Turn the engine off and remove the tachometer. Reinstall all equipment previously removed.



Rough idle, that cannot be corrected by normal service procedures may be caused by leakage between the EGR valve body and diaphragm. To determine if this is the cause: Tighten the EGR bolts to 15 ft.lb. Connect a vacuum gauge to the intake manifold. Lift to exert a sideways pressure on the diaphragm housing. If the idle changes or the reading on the vacuum gauge varies, replace the EGR valve.

FLOAT AND FUEL LEVEL ADJUSTMENTS


Carter Model YF, YFA and YFA Feedback 1-bbl

See Figure 9


Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. Fig. 9: Carter YF and YFA series float level adjustment

1. Remove the carburetor air horn and gasket from the carburetor.

2. Invert the air horn assembly, and check the clearance from the top of the float to the bottom of the air horn. Hold the air horn at eye level when gauging the float level. The float arm (lever) should be resting on the needle pin. Do not load the needle when adjusting the float. Bend the float arm as necessary to adjust the float level (clearance). Do not bend the tab at the end of the float arm, because it prevents the float from striking the bottom of the fuel bowl when empty.

3. Turn the air horn over and hold it upright and let the float hang free. Measure the maximum clearance from the top of the float to the bottom of the air horn with the float gauge. Hold the air horn at eye level when gauging the dimension. To adjust the float drop, bend the tab at the end of the float arm.

4. Install the carburetor air horn with a new gasket.



Autolite (Motorcraft) Model 2150 2-bbl (Wet Adjustment)

1. Operate the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature. Place the vehicle on a level surface and stop the engine.

2. Remove the carburetor air cleaner assembly.

3. Remove the air horn attaching screws and the carburetor identification tag. Temporarily, leave the air horn and gasket in position on the carburetor main body and start the engine. Let the engine idle for a few minutes, then rotate the air horn out of the way and remove the air horn gasket to provide access to the float assembly.

4. While the engine is idling, use a scale to measure the vertical distance from the top machined surface of the carburetor main body to the level of the fuel in the fuel bowl. The measurement must be made at least 1 / 4 inch; (6mm) away from any vertical surface to assure an accurate reading, because the surface of the fuel is concave, being higher at the edges than in the center. Care must be exercised to measure the fuel level at the point of contact with the float.

5. If any adjustment is required, stop the engine to minimize the hazard of fire due to spilled gasoline. To adjust the fuel level, bend the float tab contacting the fuel inlet valve upward in relation to the original position to raise the fuel level, and downward to lower it. Each time the float is adjusted, the engine must be started and permitted to idle for a few minutes to stabilize the fuel level. Check the fuel level after each adjustment, until the specified level is obtained.

6. Assemble the carburetor in the reverse order of disassembly, using a new gasket between the air horn and the main carburetor body.
 
  #21  
Old 10-10-09, 08:06 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,750
newofta - that's correct that is a gear driven cam and it wouldn't jump a tooth. Barring a complete shellout of those gears the timing problem is somewhere else.
 
  #22  
Old 10-10-09, 08:50 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
Good info, thanks. I'm certain that most of my problems are related to vacuum. I'm going out and getting vacuum lines today, replace them all and see what I have. A leak at the EGR seems likely, too. I'll go over the intake manifold bolts and carburetor screws. Last night I was spraying some cleaner on the linkage at the rear of the carb while the engine was running and noticed an increase in speed while I was spraying. I guess there is a leak back there somewhere. So, I'll start with basics. No point in adjusting or replacing until I get all the leaks plugged. I think I can get pretty close on the timing but only after I get the leaks plugged.
 
  #23  
Old 10-10-09, 09:37 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,750
That leak could be at the base gasket or at the throttle shaft being worn. If it's the latter, there's not a lot you can do with it.

Can you tell if the EGR is solenoid controlled? If it is there would be a vacuum line coming off the EGR pancake and going to a small solenoid controlled valve. If that is the setup, you would have a computer controlled EGR.

But you're right, an EGR sticking will cause a lot of the stalling issues.
 

Last edited by marbobj; 10-10-09 at 11:33 AM.
  #24  
Old 10-10-09, 07:07 PM
hopkinsr2's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: canada
Posts: 1,563
Grab the body of the carb & try to twist it back & forth.. A lot of these used to come loose between the carb body & the part that has the throttle plate in it... Sorry,, I forgot all about that or I would have mentioned it earlier.... Roger
 
  #25  
Old 10-11-09, 12:04 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by hopkinsr2 View Post
Grab the body of the carb & try to twist it back & forth.. A lot of these used to come loose between the carb body & the part that has the throttle plate in it... Sorry,, I forgot all about that or I would have mentioned it earlier.... Roger
I did as you said and I do see movement. I'll go out and get gaskets before I remove it to tighten the bolts.
Today I found the REAL timing mark and it does appear on the timing indicator plate. At what degree I have no idea. I'll worry about that later. First I have to get all these little vacuum leaks squared away. A friend has access to a smoke tester and with that, not only will he be able to tell me if I have a leak but where it is.
 
  #26  
Old 10-11-09, 01:01 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
Originally Posted by marbobj View Post
That leak could be at the base gasket.......
What a 'catch'!

Something easily overlooked, since most people(at least so I would think) presume that what is bolted in place by the factory should remain that way.

I'll have to remember this myself if I ever have a similar problem. It is easy to go off on tangents looking for failures where parts deteriorate or mechanically fail. But as I said, with parts coming loose is easy to overlook, even though it can be common (for people in the know) with certain vehicles with certain things.

This ranks up there with electrical failures being attributed to not some actual component or hot feed failure, but to a bad ground. Something else often easily forgotten/overlooked.
 
  #27  
Old 10-11-09, 05:03 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by hopkinsr2 View Post
Grab the body of the carb & try to twist it back & forth.. A lot of these used to come loose between the carb body & the part that has the throttle plate in it... Sorry,, I forgot all about that or I would have mentioned it earlier.... Roger
I couldn't get the gasket that goes between the spacer and the manifold. All I could get was the one that goes between the spacer and the carburetor. Even replacing just that one made a difference. I'll try again tomorrow for the other one. It is running considerably better. At least until I decided to mess with the mixture screw. I know just enough about adjusting the mixture to be dangerous. I should have left it alone.
 
  #28  
Old 10-11-09, 05:34 PM
hopkinsr2's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: canada
Posts: 1,563
The one I'm talking about can be tightened by turning the carb upside down & using a #3 phillips screwdriver,, tighten the 2 (I think) or 3 screws that hold the throttle plate part of the carb to the main part of the carb.. Does this help??? Roger
 
  #29  
Old 10-11-09, 09:15 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
I meant I couldn't find a store the gasket in stock. The gasket between the carburetor and the spacer (more than a spacer ,really, as the vacuum manifold and some other tube screw into it) is a thick one but the next one down is very thin and looks like it could stand replacing. I'll try to find one tomorrow. I also changed the EGR gasket.
 
  #30  
Old 10-12-09, 01:32 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 24
Sounds like you have carb issues and the ignition and valve timing was o.k. You still need to get the ignition timing right, though, since you moved the distributor.

As a suggestion, you can set total timing without a timing light, timing mark or marks on the balancer. On street and strip and race engines we don't worry about static timing and instead we set timing to get as much total timing as possible under load. Your timing will consist of your static setting, your mechanical advance on the distributor, and vaccuum advance (if any). You can retard the timing until you start get pinging (detonation), and then back off a little and get a pretty good setting.

The method we use is as follows (and you need good gas):

1. Loosen distributor so it is snug but can be moved by hand with effort (you dont want it to move when driving car)

2. With vacuum advance disconnected and plugged, run the vehicle full throttle in first or second gear and listen for pinging. Retard the timing until pinging is heard, then advance the timing to just eliminate pinging.

3. With vacuum advance connected, run the vehicle in second or third gear and gradually accelerate, retard the timing until pinging is heard, then advance timing to just eliminate pinging.

4. Tighten distributor.

Typically, with today's gas, you want to have as much timing as possible, without pinging and so that it cranks quickly without too much load on the starter and battery. Hope this helps. Paul B.
 
  #31  
Old 10-13-09, 04:14 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
That sounds like it would work except I'm just about deaf. For all I know, it could be pinging like crazy right now. First, I'll take care of the vacuum leaks. Until I get that done, everything else is a waste of time. Hopefully, tomorrow the smoke machine gets used on it, I take care of the leaks and I can start working on adjusting the carburetor and the timing.
It's running so-so right now. It starts ok, runs halfway decent but still wants to stall at lights and has a little too much run on.
I've had a few setbacks. The gas tank I thought I had fixed sprang another leak so I just took it off and left it off until I get the vacuum squared away.
Then, while I was climbing out of the engine compartment after messing with the carburetor, my foot slipped off the steering box and snapped the power steering return line off of the pump reservoir. The pump had a leak anyway so I'm replacing it tonight.
Then it's off to finish drywall and start the hardwood floor.
For an old man, I stay pretty busy.
 
  #32  
Old 10-13-09, 07:19 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,750
Apparently that isn't the original carburetor. Is there a place for a throttle stop solenoid, or does it have one on it?
 
  #33  
Old 10-14-09, 09:04 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
I believe you are right. Looking at the engine from the front of the truck, in the back of the carburetor, there is a solenoid and the rod rests against an adjustable stop. This stop is adjustable with an allen wrench from the opposite end.
On the driver's side of the carb, there are two speed adjustments.
On the passenger side, there is what I thought was a mixture adjustment at the base.
A vacuum line goes from the choke pull off to the base.
You know, the heck with this. Try this link and see if you can see the pictures I took.
Picasa Web Albums - Andrew - Ford One Barrel
Someone please let me know if you can't see them.
 
  #34  
Old 10-15-09, 04:25 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,750
I could access all of your photos.

The solenoid by the choke pull off is likely an IAC function and could affect anything at an idle.

I believe once you have the vacuum leaks and lines in good shape, I would get the solenoid (not the one by the choke pull off - the other one) and its adjustments in order. I would look for one of the $15.00 Haynes manuals for a start.

It looks like it's not just an on/off like a normal idle stop solenoid, but with the four wires it's probably computer controlled to step down the low rpm range into an idle, and possibly some other things that could account for the stalling and "after running". Anytime you're working through a carburetor, you can only control a small number of things on the fuel end.

The other question would be on what sensors are signaling the computer and whether they're working. You could sink a lot of money into shop work on it if you could find an FI shop to look at it. Or it may be simpler than that, I couldn't say.
 
  #35  
Old 10-16-09, 11:41 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
I really like this truck but right about now, the proper placement of high explosives would bring a great deal of satisfaction.
Yesterday, after the smoke machine deal failed to materialize, I spent a few more hours playing with the carburetor adjustments...again. It was running pretty good...again.
I drove about 5 miles to a job I am doing and after I was done got in my truck and it was running like crap...again. Yes, yes, yes....I know. Vacuum.
Has anybody had any luck with a propane torch finding a vacuum leak. It makes sense to me when I read about it. Move the unlit torch around the usual suspects(intake manifold, carburetor base, EGR valve, etc.) and when the idle changes, you have found a leak. It all sounds very good in theory but how about in practice? Thoughts anyone?
If I could afford to take it to a shop, I would have done just that but until Obama sends me some incentive money or declares me a disaster thus qualifying me for Federal aid...it ain't likely to happen.
 
  #36  
Old 10-16-09, 01:10 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,750
You can use a torch, like you're talking about or WD 40, or carb cleaner - just about anything flammable will work.
 
  #37  
Old 10-16-09, 01:25 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
Should a person only use those things after the exhaust manifold is cool, to maybe prevent a fire? Is it always wise to maybe have a fire extinguisher handy next to you?, rated for BC fires?

Would starting fluid be good?
 
  #38  
Old 10-16-09, 02:23 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cecil County, MD
Posts: 209
My thinking is that with a rubber tube, like a fuel line or something, I'd be able to reach under the intake manifold and any other hard to reach places. Propane, in my humble opinion, is less likely to be as explosive as starting fluid, WD-40 or carb cleaner. Any resulting fire would be very short lived. I could also put the system under a few pounds of air pressure and squirt some Snoop around. It would be hard to get under the intake manifold though.
Well, one way or another, I'm going to find this leak.
I did finally find a picture of the crankcase timing indicator plate. The timing seems to be very close.
 
  #39  
Old 10-16-09, 04:30 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 8,629
I have not kept up with the entire post, but has there been an attempt to put a vacuum gauge on the engine, to know that is indeed your problem?
 
  #40  
Old 10-16-09, 04:32 PM
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 526
I dont think anyone mentioned the EGR valve.
If your EGR valve is sticky it will delay closing when coming to stop and essentually make a large vacuum leak unitl it closes.
But if it stays open......you"ll stall when coming to a stop.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes