'90 Grand Voyager problems...

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  #1  
Old 11-26-09, 01:47 PM
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'90 Grand Voyager problems...

The first problem with this van is that I need to tow it 300 miles before I can work on it. U-Haul won't rent me a dolly because the van is too big. They won't rent me a carrier (trailer) because my F-150 is not big enough. I have access to a tow bar, but it was made to hook to a '60's VW Beetle at the front axle tubes. I have permission to modify it, but without access to the van, I am unsure as to how or where. I am not opposed to removing the front bumper to safely attach the bar for a safe tow. And I have a couple of days to fabricate adapters to fit. ANY help with this would be greatly appreciated.
Second, the reason I have to tow it is that the fuel pump went belly up. I've had the tank out and replaced the pump before. But it's been 7 or 8 years, and I don't remember how the fuel hoses are attached to the tank fittings - garter springs, threaded fittings or something else. Anyone got any tips? Thanks in advance - Chris
 
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Old 11-26-09, 04:55 PM
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Do not tow the van 300 miles with wheels on the ground, chances are you will need a trans when you get to your destination. Use a trailer, your F-150 will pull it fine, just take your time, load it right, and use good chains and binders to tie it down. Tow guy will be able to give you better tips than I can, but I suspect his best tip will be to hire someone with the proper equipment to haul it for you.
 
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Old 11-27-09, 05:40 PM
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Thanks, 'twister. Hadn't thought about that, but you're right; dragging the van with all four wheels on the ground would probably cost me a transaxle. Think the plan is to run down with a friend/helper/driver, replace the pump and drive the van back. Contingency plan is to rent equipment to pull it back either with front wheels off the ground or all four.
Back to second part of my original post - what holds the hoses onto the fittings at the tank - spring couplers, threaded fasteners, hose clamps or what? The last time I did this, it went back together in the factory manner; I just don't remember what that was! Old age and short term memory loss, I guess... Thanks again - Chris
P.S. - the Chilton's manual on this van mentions a rubber plug in the fuel tank to facilitate siphoning the tank empty. Anyone familiar with its location?
 
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Old 11-28-09, 04:51 AM
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Don't think I can add anything to the advice. I wouldn't think a Caravan on a dolly would be much of a problem; might try another rental source. FWIW a 300 mile tow I would charge somewhere around $700 (don't know that I've ever had one that long; most people have second thoughts when they hear the price and decide to fix in place).

I'm not up on Caravan fuel pumps, but you might try the Auto Zone site's repair info to see if there's any better info.
 
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Old 11-30-09, 04:01 AM
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Okay, here's the latest. A friend and I dropped the fuel tank and replaced the fuel pump, strainer and inline filter on the "frame rail". The van roared to life and ran as well as it ever did for the first 25-50 miles. Then it began to stumble and refuse to accelerate. I believe the engine would have idled until the fuel tank went dry, but accelerating quickly or climbing a hill at aa steady speed was out of the question. However, if I would shut the engine off and restart it, I could drive normally for varying periods of time. I wonder if I've got a new fuel pump working against a defective pressure regulator? And if maybe the regulator is what wiped out the old pump?
 
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Old 11-30-09, 04:52 AM
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You might also try another filter change; maybe you knocked loose some crap in the tank that got picked up.
 
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Old 11-30-09, 05:26 AM
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Thanks, tow guy. Practically real-time response here! By your answer, I'm led to believe the regulator COULD be the problem. I'd rather solve it with a $10 filter than a $75 regulator, though. I understand the basics of fuel injection, I'm just not versed enough in it to diagnose by symptoms yet.

Oh, in addition, when the van would start to run crappy, sometimes it would sound like it was backfiring into the exhaust. Not every time, though; sometimes it would just lay down and refuse any throttle input.
 
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Old 11-30-09, 06:26 AM
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Also, Check Engine light comes on with key on, goes out when engine starts. Have not yet had a chance to check for DTC's, but I don't expect any without a light.

Auto Zone's website link to "Repair Info" nailed the location of the fuel tank siphon fitting. It's almost like Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth KNEW something ahead of time, like that these fuel tanks would be coming down often... LQTM
 
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Old 11-30-09, 09:45 AM
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I have a '92. I researched and more...... It would die after driving a few miles. It would lose most power going up hills. It would idle at a light and stop. Removed a sensor at the left bottom of the intake plenunm, sprayed carb cleaner in as it idled. The throttle vane sticks when the weather changed and the residue gunk interfears with the throttle vane. Try it, it couldn't hurt and the price is right.
Be safe, Gary
 
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Old 11-30-09, 10:00 AM
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Thanks, Gary. What engine do you have, and do you know what sensor it was? On my 3.3's intake, I have MAP sensor, and TPS and IAC on the throttle body (no EGR - what's up with this?
BTW, tow guy, following your advice, I pulled the new filter (installed testerday) and found it full of grey gritty gasoline. I left it off and cycled the pump a few times into a clean container; clean, amber gasoline was all that came out. Apparently the filter did its job. Another new unit is now in place. I may venture out and drive it HARD this evening before turning it back over to my wife. Hoprfully the regulator can be put on hold...
 
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Old 11-30-09, 11:20 AM
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Wouldn't hurt to get a pressure gauge on it and see what it's reading. That would answer your regulator question.
 
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Old 11-30-09, 01:12 PM
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Just need to find someone with a 50-pounder (or get my own, I know!). Just got back from a 15-mile round trip in it with the new filter; it stumbled once or twice on the out leg of the trip,then ran pretty good until just almost home. Possibility of air bubbles in the system working their way out? The filter looks like it could trap enough air to hinder good pressure. Just a thought.
What are the odds I've damaged the NEW pump by driving it against a faulty regulator, if the reg IS bad?
 

Last edited by CMil; 11-30-09 at 01:16 PM. Reason: New thought
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Old 11-30-09, 03:48 PM
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I have the 3.3 also. I pulled the air cleaner element out and sprayed into the supply tube. My son's Nissan Maxima had the same symptoms, there I pulled a sender unit and sprayed it, not the PLym. Try it anyway........
Be safe, Gary
 
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Old 11-30-09, 06:44 PM
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Thanks, Gary. If there is a sensor in the air plumbing on mine (I think there might be), I believe it's the Intake Air Temp sensor. The only other sensor I can think of that would be in the clean air tube would be a Mass Air Flow sensor - WAY bigger than an IAT.
Anyway, I will try dumping out the NEW new fuel filter and cleaning the IAT sensor in the morning. Here's hoping... Chris
Gary - after posting this, I read your first reply more closely. By "throttle vane", it sounds like you're referring to the throttle body. And, yes, I've got one off a Saturn right now, and it's really caked up, especially on the throttle plate. I cleaned the one on the Plymouth when I had it apart to replace bent pushrods, but that's been 7-8 years ago. Maybe it's time...
 

Last edited by CMil; 11-30-09 at 06:56 PM. Reason: New thought
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Old 12-01-09, 07:12 AM
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What now? I replaced the pressure regulator and went for a test drive. Engine runs great - smooth idle, takes load, no stumbling or hesitation. But the transmission never shifts, feels like it's stuck in 2nd, maybe. Works right in P,R and N. Idles fine at a stop, so converter is not locked. Fluid level is correct - I had to add a little, maybe half a quart. Shifted fine yesterday., nothing has changed except fuel system parts. What's up with that?
Just read on allpar website about the evils of substituting Dexron for Mopar 7176 (ATF+3 or +4), even though the dipstick says you may. And that's just what I added. If I change the fluid and filter, maybe more than once, might I get shifts back? Or have I done irrepairable damage?
 

Last edited by CMil; 12-01-09 at 08:07 AM. Reason: New information
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Old 12-01-09, 07:40 PM
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Okay - the Allpar website also indicates that the transmission is in "limp mode", and that one possible cause is a corroded or wet ground connection at the TCM plug. Sunday, while driving the van home, it was raining cats and dogs a good portion of the way. Very possible it got wet. My plan is to dry out/clean up these connections and change fluid and filter ASAP. Still entertaining any other ideas, though...
 
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Old 12-02-09, 09:51 AM
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Update - changed filter and fluid (used ATF+4 going back in), disconnected solenoid pack connector (and battery), found not water but ATF puddled at the bottom of the connector at the transmission. Cleaned both ends of the connector, plugged back in, reconnected battery and test-drove. Forward speeds are back! (at least for now), and engine seems to be running right with new pump and regulator. Going to drive it a few days, then re-train control module(s) Sunday after church. We'll see how it goes. Thanks for all the guidance so far. Chris
 
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