New Snow Tires Pulling

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  #1  
Old 12-14-09, 05:35 AM
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New Snow Tires Pulling

I just bought 4 new snows for my Grand Caravan. On the highway on the way home I noticed a strong pull/drift to the right that had not been there before. The next day I had the oil changed and had them swap the left and right front tire, the result being a strong pull/drift to the left. So there seems to be something wrong with one or both of these front tires. (I checked inflation, both the same.)

I called where I bought the tires, they said the solution was to move the front tires to the rear. I don't think this is a good solution, for what I believe are obvious reasons: Doesn't make sense to put a faulty tire on the rear, and what about next year when I should rotate the rears snows to the front, I'll have the same problem. Does this make sense or am I missing something.

(This is a discount tire place, but they have a reputation of low prices and good service.)

When I go there to resolve this, I will be asking to replace one or both of the front tires, or to change all 4 tires for another model tire. Am I being reasonable, is this what I should expect them to do?

They also broke one of my lug bolts, which I expect can happen and it's not their fault, but they didn't even tell me. Kind of annoying.

Thanks for any insight you can provide
 
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  #2  
Old 12-14-09, 06:02 AM
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I would take them back and ask for 4 NEW tires, probably a different brand.
I have a uneasy feeling about this place in light of the broken lug nut thing.
 
  #3  
Old 12-14-09, 06:10 AM
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or at least replace the bad tire. I wouldn't be suprised if a carefull inspection of the tire showed something amiss.... or possibly something wrong with the wheel.
They should of told you about the broke lug, even if it was just 'it's broke and x$ to replace it'.
 
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Old 12-14-09, 06:12 AM
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Thanks DASWEDE.

One correction to my initial post; it was the lug bolt that was broke, not the nut. The place where I had my oil changed is also a tire seller, and I asked them what they would do if they broke a lug bolt while installing a tire. He said in most cases it is not the installers fault but he would always tell the buyer. This place did have an opportunity to slam a competitor, and they didn't so I accepted this as reasonable.
 
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Old 12-14-09, 06:15 AM
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Thanks for the input, marksr.
 
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Old 12-14-09, 11:50 AM
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more precisely it is a stud. Volkswagon, Porsche and maybe Audi are the only car companies I have ever known to use an actual lug bolt and I do not think they have used lug bolts for many years.

but anyway: I would not be so easy about letting them off about breaking a stud. More often than not, if they were sheepish about telling you, they were at fault. If it weren't their fault, the most logical action, in terms of business sense, would be to tell you it was broken. Since allowing you to leave unaware of a broken stud, while it generally will not be a serious safety concern for the moment, it could lead to a safety concern or damage to brake parts which they could be held liable for if the damaged stud was their fault or they were aware of the broken stud yet failed to warn you of the problem.

So, how do you avoid the liability? You tell the customer there is a broken lug stud and have them sign the receipt acknowledging the fact you were told.

so, to the tire problem; they need to replace at least one of the front tires. If the problem goes away, then you got what you paid for. If it still pulls, they need to replace the other front tire and all should be well.

After you get the defective tire replaced, you might want to get the tires rotated just to make sure one of the rear tires is not causing the same problem.

Do not accept the "rotate it to the rear" situation. That might, and I say might, actually remedy the problem but I would not wait. You have a tire that is causing problems now do they need to take care of it now.
 
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Old 12-14-09, 12:31 PM
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Sorry for posting "lug nut", as O.P. said ..."bolt".
 
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Old 12-14-09, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by daswede View Post
Sorry for posting "lug nut", as O.P. said ..."bolt".
as the other guy said: stud and no, I am not trying to pick you up:SA:

a bolt is generally considered to have a head on it designed to allow the use of a wrench or other tool so as to be able to hold it while a nut is tightened onto it or turn it into a threaded hole so as to tighten it into the hole. A stud is intended to be inserted into a hole with threads exposed so as to allow a nut to be placed on those threads. Once installed, the stud is not rotated.

hence, most cars use studs with nuts. VW, Porsche and (I think) Audi, have used actual bolts to retain their wheels. I do not believe they do so anymore.
 
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Old 12-14-09, 07:37 PM
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Yes Its a Stud -More with the original story...

I returned to the tire dealer today with my complaints.

Re: the busted stud -- what the tire place showed me was a cross threaded lug nut that the oil change place had put on right next to the busted one. They said the oil change place, that swapped the front tires broke the stud, but then blamed the tire place for it. Tire place had to bust this stud to get the nut off. Said they never would have let me leave with a busted stud. I really don't think the tire place deliberately cross threaded the nut just to show it to me....but who knows. Had to have them replace the two studs.

Re: the pulling front end. The tire place did not believe the tires were bad. They put the front on the rear (I had marked them so I know they did.) saying that if it still pulled it was most likely something mechanical not the tires. They also said one of the previously front tires had a 2lb psi difference could have had some effect. Recommended front end alignment (the tire place doesn't have alignment equipment).

Pulled to the right again on way home.

Stopped at Sears on way home had alignment done. They said there was not much adjustment required.

Seemed to still pull to the right about the same after. Unusual observation-- after the alignment, the steering wheel seemed
off center, straight ahead was like at about 10 oclock v. previously at 12 oclock going straight. Does this make sense following an alignment?

Conclusion: I want to scream. It still seems like the tires to me, but maybe some other front end problem? I did not recall any noticeable pull before putting on the snows. The tire place said with the softer winter tires they tend to exxagerate any other conditions.

Any thoughts and recommendations are appreciated.

Any tire dealers listening: what should a customer do in this situation, when the dealer thinks the tires are ok and maybe they are not?
 
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Old 12-14-09, 08:42 PM
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sounds like everybody wants to blame somebody else and nobody wants to take the responsibility.

if the pull follows the tire, the tire is a probably the problem. 2 psi might make a slight difference but why didn't the tire place put the same amount of air in each tire? No very pro to do it and then state later that that might cause the car to pull.

the steering wheel; with the car pulling, I would not get to freaked about it. Tell Sears it is not straight but rather than messing with it, you want to get the tire situation taken care of then have them straighten the wheel. It may or may not be a result of the pull or Sears' work.

it does sound like the direction it is off is the direction you have to steer to counter the pull so I would wait.


So, to get rid of the pull; depending on who the dealer is might make a diff. I do know there is a National chain that states if you are ever dissatisfied with their tires, bring them back. If it is them, take them up on their offer and get tires elsewhere.

So, if the front end place found no bad parts and the alignment is correct, the pull follows the tire, you did not have a pull problem until the new tires were put on; it is probably a tire.

the one (and only) thing that supports the tire place is when the tires were rotated front to rear, it still pulled. That could mean there is a problem with your car or it could mean you have more than one bad tire.

what to do?

kind of up to you. Personally, I would fight with the tire place. I would suggest a different brand of tire or maybe (and only maybe. I tend to not trust an entire brand once I have problems with them) a different model from the same manufacturer. I would prefer the different brand.

I would think they should swap you out for something different. If the car is the same, you owe them for any difference. If it is better and the newer tires are more, I would ask for them to eat the difference for all the problems you went through.
 
  #11  
Old 12-14-09, 09:28 PM
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If you have them to put your summer tires back on, (I know,,a pain & the wrong time of year) & your caravan goes straight as an arrow down a good highway (we don't have any here in eastern Ontario) than I would ask for a refund & take my buisness to another Tire dealer... Tires of different serial & Lot #'s can have very different rolling resistances... I survived the Firestone Recall @ a Ford dealer & if #'s weren't the same on all 4 tires,, we were not to use them... Roger
 
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Old 12-15-09, 03:37 AM
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Tires can cause a pull, Stud should of been replaced when broken, By who ever did it but now is probably to late to get anybody to fix for free. Have both bad studs replaced and find a new tire dealer as the onr you are going to either dose not know what they are doing or are unresponsive to your problems.
 
  #13  
Old 12-15-09, 04:15 AM
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[QUOTE=beamhillrd;1662918]I just bought 4 new snows for my Grand Caravan. On the highway on the way home I noticed a strong pull/drift to the right that had not been there before. The next day I had the oil changed and had them swap the left and right front tire, the result being a strong pull/drift to the left. So there seems to be something wrong with one or both of these front tires. (I checked inflation, both the same.)




The pull was not there before tire change, but was there after. Swapping tires side to side caused the pull to move. Classic case of one or two bad tires. Get them to replace the tires, or get your money back and go elsewhere. Ask to speak to the manager. Let him know you can and will go to the Better Business Beaureau. Be nice and respectful, unless they are not, then respond in kind.
 
  #14  
Old 12-15-09, 05:01 AM
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Thanks to all who responded.
 
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Old 12-15-09, 10:15 AM
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let us know the resolution. I hate not hearing what happened.
 
  #16  
Old 12-21-09, 05:26 AM
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Returned to the tire dealer first thing Sat morning; they swapped one, then a second tire after some trial and error and things seem well now.

I would say that the bad tires had "conicity issues". You can do a search and read more about it; as a general explanation it results in one sidewall being stronger than the other, thus inducing a pull. An interesting thing I learned is that automobile manufacturers measure this and place the tires on new vehicles in such a way as they would cancel out the pull. There are some machines (Huneter was the brand i saw) that along with balancing a tire can measure conicity. This particular tire dealer did not have this. I would feel better from now on going to a dealer that would invest in something like this to avoid customer dissatsfaction.

Maybe I am somewhat of a wuss for not demanding a return and refund, but these problems can be draining of both patience and time. These tires were $80 installed Kelly Magna Grips which I thought was a good price and I found a lot of good comments on the web. Nevertheless this is my final purchase at this tire dealer. Thanks for everyone's interest.

FYI, this in my opinion this is the most useful site on the web thanks to all you responders; keep up the good work!
 
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Old 12-21-09, 04:08 PM
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Conicity- yes, I understand and have dealt with it a lot. I disagree that a tire should be installed so as to have an opposite coned tire counter it. If you replace either of that "set" you now have a pull and it is from the old tire. Unfair position to put a customer in.

I consider a tire that causes a pull, for any reason, to be a defective tire and should not be sold as a first quality unit.

thanks for stopping back with the results. glad you don't feel that little tug while driving down the road.
 
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