Broken off gooseneck bolts

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  #1  
Old 01-18-10, 05:50 PM
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Broken off gooseneck bolts

1990 Chevy truck with an aluminum manifold. I went to change the thermostat and snap, broke off one bolt. Came back later during warmer weather to work on new prob and the 2nd bolt broke off also. I didn't know this was an aluminum manifold when I put in a new timing chain years ago and overtightened the bolts... only thing I can think of to make them both break like this. [I do know L & R ]

I have some titanium coated drill bits and was able to drill into one of the bolts. Heated the area with a hand torch [mapp] and put an extractor in the hole and broke that off also I don't think I got the area hot enough. The aluminum scares me a bit.

I tried to drill on the other bolt for a while, broke two bits off and then the other bits quit cutting pretty much. Never believed in the coated bits, but it looks like they do work for a while. I quit as it was getting dark and cold.

Used a drill doctor for the first time to sharpen the bits. I don't think that is going to help much. May have to buy some new ones.

Any ideas?
How hot to get aluminum? How to know?
Extractor side?

Any help will be very appreciated... only going to work on this if its warm out.... garage burned down a while back.
 
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  #2  
Old 01-19-10, 05:51 AM
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I had an exhaust stud break off on a car due to some other loosening and causing vibration. I could not budge it by using a pointed chisel and a small hammer to try and turn it. The Snap On bolt removal tool only sheared the remaining metal in the bolt after I drilled the hole in the bolt. I did not want to remove the cylinder head. The bolt, naturally, was the closest one to the firewall.

What I finally did is go to Lowe's and purchase a very small diamond bit for my Dremel tool. It looked somewhat like a dentist's drill except the cutting part was about 1/4" long. I mounted it in my Dremel tool and sliced (in one location) radially until I went through the bolt. Naturally, the tool severed the threads in one spot but the tool is only about 3/32" in diameter. Once severed I was able to peel the remaining bolt out. That was 10 years ago and the car is a track car. Thus one must conclude the threads are still doing their job.

It sounds like you may have gotten antifreeze in the bolt or the dissimilar metals caused galvanic cell to fuse the parts together.

Before I remove bolts that have a tendency to freeze up, I give them a good shot with a hammer to wake them up. One of my vehicles used a lot of cap head bolts. The hex socket in the head tend of the bolts tends to round making bolt removal quite difficult. I always rudely awaken them.
 
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Old 01-19-10, 10:00 PM
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Thanks, never thought about the Dremel. I have one ...will check into different bits for it.

Ice storm starting so I have some time before I do anything.
 
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Old 01-20-10, 03:42 AM
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I used the Dremel after I had thinned the bolt as much as possible with a tungsten carbide bit for the Dremel. If you like, I could email you a picture of the bits used.
 
  #5  
Old 01-20-10, 06:52 AM
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Aluminum and heat really don't go together too well. You could have a bonding from the antifreeze or you may have pulled the threads with an overtightening.

If you can get a deep hole of any size into the bolt without drilling through, I think I would try shaking it loose with a a little hammer rapping. Be careful not to drive the bolt through the threads, though.

Then there is a penetrate that TG ran across called .Freeze Shock. You can use it to shrink the bolt a little before you try to take it out.

When you get everything ready to go back together, use some antiseize on the threads and shank of the bolt.
 
  #6  
Old 01-26-10, 04:32 PM
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LawrenceC-- sent you an address..... thanks a lot!


marbobj-- I think I have drilled through the first bolt, but that is the one with the broken extractor in it. Are you suggesting to drill the hole and use a punch in the hole, then give it a bit of a hit?

I checked out the freeze items. Had never heard of them...looks very promising. Online I ran across CRC Freeze Off Super Penetrant and Loctite® Freeze.

If this whole situation blows up on me, how well can one tap aluminum? Or is there a way to weld/melt studs into aluminum?... go ahead and laugh here... its free

Thanks all
 
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Old 01-26-10, 04:50 PM
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for some reason I had an epiphany when I read this again.

Is the thermostat housing aluminum or diecast? If you removed that, would there be any portion of the bolt sticking up so as to be able to grab it with vice grips?

how about enough sticking up so you could weld a nut onto the end of it?

Obviously about 3 gallons of pb blaster or whatever would need to soak in before really trying to remove the broken bolt but hey, what the heck.

anyway, what I was after is;

sacrifice the t-stat housing (break it to get it off) so you can get to the bolt shafts.

Don;t know if it is truly applicable but thought it was worth passing the idea along in case it was.
 
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Old 01-26-10, 05:01 PM
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Don't know what the housing is made out of, but it doesn't matter. It is off and only one side had a bit of bolt sticking up. Not enough to do anything with unfortunately.

Thanks much though.
 
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Old 01-26-10, 05:12 PM
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I tried. What about welding a nut onto the end of the bolt shaft?

if you use one just smaller than whatever sized bolt it is, you can weld it right onto the end without accidentally melting the aluminum manifold.

the heat of welding might even help break the corrosion free.
 
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Old 01-26-10, 05:37 PM
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Never was anything to weld to on one side, and now nothing on the other. Completely flush with the top of the manifold. No welder either anyway... would have to tow truck or get someone to come over. My garage burned down and this is all being done outside.

Thanks
 
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Old 01-26-10, 05:59 PM
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you weld INSIDE the nut, not outside.

but obviously not an option anyway.

best of luck to ya.
 
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Old 01-26-10, 11:06 PM
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nap -- Thanks for your thoughts...as you can tell I don't know squat about welding. That's why one of the things I was wondering if it was possible to weld a stud onto the flush bolt shaft as a permanent solution. I can use spacers on top of the stud if needed.
 
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Old 01-27-10, 09:04 PM
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Theoretically you could do that, but to get it done, I would say no - get the bolt out.

You mentioned retapping the aluminum, I believe. Tapping it wouldn't be a problem, but getting the bolt out by drilling would require an exact center line bore down the bolt shank. I'm afraid that's impossible to do free hand.

Once you got the hole out of line from what it was before the breakage, you'd be pretty well sunk - nothing would go back together right.
 
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Old 01-29-10, 02:15 AM
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well this is overkill and allot of work but maybe replace the manifold.
 
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Old 02-11-10, 03:27 PM
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Update-- got a warmer day and tried to work on this a bit more.

I tried to drill on the other bolt for a while, broke two bits off and then the other bits quit cutting pretty much. Never believed in the coated bits, but it looks like they do work for a while. I quit as it was getting dark and cold.
I put that at the start. When I went out and tried again I couldn't hardly drill anything. It seems that on the first day I rushed it as it was getting dark and overheated the bolts making them super hardened. I wasn't using any drilling oil/compound etc. Wanted to let anyone know it had nothing to do with titanium coated bits working or not.

Will update more when something happens...glad I don't need to use this truck
 
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Old 04-15-10, 03:15 PM
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Final info

After rushing that day and overheating the bits and bolts, drilling was out. Made very little progress after that.

Winter has gone..got a manifold from U Pull It for $30, got gaskets and all done.

Lesson learned.. 1. Use drilling oil! 2. Put anti-seize on bolts into Aluminum!

Thanks to all!
 
  #17  
Old 04-16-10, 07:37 AM
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stud removal

Just a tip when welding something to a broken stud. On smaller bolts its hard to get a good weld inside a nut. Get a large flat washer and weld it to the stud, then weld a nut to the washer.
 
  #18  
Old 04-16-10, 11:07 AM
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DIY, if the NE stands for New England, you might want to put anti seize on the lug studs to prevent the nuts from rusting on. On my Crown Vic, when I was putting anti-seize on the lug studs, I found one that was rusted on a little bit.
 
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