What a fiasco with this rebuilt engine!

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  #1  
Old 01-25-10, 08:44 AM
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What a fiasco with this rebuilt engine!

I have a 92' Ford Ranger with remanufactured 2.9 V6 engine installed June 2008. I got the engine from the most reputable manufacturer in the country. I have been complaining about strange ticking, rattling sounds from valve train from the first month. I have taken it back to the mechanic four times. The valves have been adjusted three times alone.

The fourth time last week, I took it back to get lifters replaced. The moment I picked it up, It was ticking, knocking, or rattling. And the mechanic said just give it 200 miles for the valves to pump up. Can you believe it? And when I drive it on freeway, it is vibrating, shuddering, or laboring some. The mechanic could not find any other problems or trouble codes. It passed emissions Friday also.

Mechanic said he used old cam with lifters. I don't know if this is the cause. But some mechanics think you should replace cam with lifters, and other don't think it's always necessary. Anyways, I called back angry and mechanic said call us Tuesday if sound doesn't go away, and that we'll install a new engine under warranty if we have to. Warranty only covers about 60 percent labor. My question to them is why should I shell out more money for this? Any opinions on mechanical problem?
 
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  #2  
Old 01-25-10, 08:58 AM
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I've replaced lifters several times [different motors] without replacing the cam and never noticed any problems. I thought hydraulic lifters pumped up within the first few minutes.

Have you considered taking it to another mechanic to get his input?
 
  #3  
Old 01-25-10, 09:15 AM
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Replacing cam with new lifters isn't needed. Replacing lifters when installing new cam...absolutely yes. SO..new lifters..old cam...ok........new cam...old lifters..no way.

Hydraulic lifters should pump up as soon as you get full oil pressure. Most times I would even pump manually them a bit in a can of oil..then install them. Unless it was a complete teardown or it sat for a long time....I'd barely get a tic. This was back in my hot rod days.

Seriously...this sounds like one of those junkyard mechanics. It has been 18 months...and they have been trying....but I personally wouldn't trust the skill level from the sounds of it. Did you get the engine through the shop? Was it a recommended shop by the engine maker?
 
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Old 01-25-10, 09:39 AM
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I have been going to him for about 2 years. He has a perfect consumer record with BBB. He goes back for recurrent training. Say he has a master's rating. I don't know what the problem is. I already told him I'm very upset that he did all that expensive work and let me drive away with it rattling like that. He claims he doesn't hear the noise till I press him. Then he says, "ok, I heard it a little bit that time." For the lifter replacement he had to remove the head. I got the engine through the shop. It's a Jasper one that came already remanufactured.

Yes, lifters are supposed to pump up pretty fast. I am probably going to get a second opinion after work today. I think the engine had a defect from the get go. After all, I was hearing noises early on

He fired his only mechanic months ago. He is by himself now. So how is he going to install an engine if it comes to that? It could jack up the labor hours.
 

Last edited by bluesbreaker; 01-25-10 at 10:24 AM.
  #5  
Old 01-25-10, 10:36 AM
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Maybe he's been doing it so long he can't hear very well anymore...like me...lol. Hey just reealized...what part of AZ? Prob asked before, but....memory is going along with hearing....
 
  #6  
Old 01-25-10, 11:10 AM
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Oh, that's right Gunguy. You are in Kingman. I am in Phoenix. Do you know any good repair shops in Phoenix that might be closer to the $57 an hour labor rate covered by the manufacturer warranty? Not that I want to sacrifice too much on quality. But I need to minimize my loss at this point. Althought I think I already have a good case to be compensated by manufacturer.
 
  #7  
Old 01-25-10, 11:34 AM
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Sorry....except for passing through in the last 30 yrs...I've only spent 1 day in Phoenix.

$57 an hour? Geez...I paid almost that much 5 yrs ago in a tiny town in the Blueridge Mountains.....even where I lived back in VA was more like $85 as I recall. Can't imagine finding anything close down there!
 
  #8  
Old 01-25-10, 12:51 PM
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I know. $57 an hour isn't even market rate for an experienced mechanic anymore. I mostly grew up in Richmond and Northern Virginia
 
  #9  
Old 01-25-10, 06:45 PM
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Was this a completely assembled engine? Why should have a mechanic had to have adjusted anything? Was correct oil used? What is the oil pressure? Was there any recommendation from mfg, to run engine say for given # miles and rechange the oil and filter, or anything like that? Why wasn't the mfger gone after, and not the mechanic, from the get-go?
 
  #10  
Old 01-26-10, 05:59 AM
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To answe ecman's questions:

The engine arrived already remanufactured

oil pressure is strong

coolant temp right on the money

In last 18 months, Consulted with mechanic on every strange noise and anomaly.

oil change intervals exceeded manufacturer requirement.

Initial oil change done at 500 miles as required.

I kept getting different opinions on oil. I am in Arizona, so I use 20W-50 in summer and 10W-40 in cooler months. Whatever oil I used fell within temp range of local climate

I have documented everything including anomalies. I literally have pages of stuff

I have recordings of strange noises.

manufacturer and mechanic notified from very early on

Yesterday, I had another mechanic listen. I gave him the history. He says he thinks it's piston slap, and it is time for manufacturer to replace the engine.

I covered my bases big time
 
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Old 01-26-10, 03:32 PM
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Hmm. Well. You complained almost from the get go. Yet 1 1/2 years now has gone by, and since then you have taken it upon yourself to have changed out parts 4 times inside the engine?

I don't think things are going to pan out too well for you unfortunately. Sorry to say.

I can't understand why firmer measures were not taken in the beginning, to go after the mfg'er of the engine, before anyone tampered with it. ???

What did they tell you when you started bringing this stuff up?: That it will go away on it's own?

Do you have names of people contacted way back in July of 2008, so that you have some kind of evidence, that you did not say change the oil after the first 500 miles, and the filter spun the o-ring out, and you lost oil pressure and wrecked the engine yourself?
 
  #12  
Old 01-26-10, 08:26 PM
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There's a lot of real estate between piston slap and lifter tick.

Is the noise more evident when the engine is coming down off a rise in rpms or do you hear it the same all the time?
 
  #13  
Old 01-26-10, 10:21 PM
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Didn't have to read the whole thread to know the company you were talking about.I quit useing them almost the same time you installed yours due to similar problems with their remans. The problems were all valve train related improper grind on two chev motors improper valve guide seals on one ford and one import tossed the timing belt before it even ran 15 sec.Seems they were having valve train problems for a while haven't heard if this has been corrected.My bet is you have had a bad valve grind from the beginning causeing your other problems / part replacement.The noises described and the parts replaced /adjusted sounds more like what I had going on with the Chev motors.They sent me one head for one and a pair for the other but like another has said that was early on in the install not almost two years later you may be fighting a lost battle Good Luck
 
  #14  
Old 01-27-10, 06:04 AM
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I'll answer all your questions here.

MarbobJ: You asked if I heard this when the engine was coming off a rise in RPM's. This EXACTLY what I heard. But after lifters put in, I here rattling, or knocking from the valve train (or engine) after it warns up

No troublecodes, passed emissions friday. Oil pressure, coolant temp ok

Ecman51. No Ecman I didn't do any warranty service. The 3 valve adjustments and lifter replacement were done by mechanic. I told mechanic and Jasper about this stuff very early on, and they stalled me and told me to wait till 1000 miles. then I was stalled further because the mechanic claimed not to hear anything and kept telling me to record it. Finally after a long period, he was able to hear it and I was able to record it.

The way it works, is that the mechanic tells Jasper what he thinks should be done. Then Jasper authorizes him to do the work.

Like I said before, I have records, dates, emails, receipts, recordings. Tomorrow , the mechanic wants to drive it on the freeway. I said, why didn't we do that before?

Mechanic keeps insisting if there is an engine problem, Jasper and I will do right by you. I have to cooperate with them a little longer.
 
  #15  
Old 01-27-10, 03:10 PM
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And that is supposed to be the #1 company? Selling clatter traps and telling you it should go away after X miles? New cars from the factory don't behave this way. This is most odd. The whole thing is odd -the association/agreement with some certain mechanic. Like everyone is in cahoots. What do they think - these sounds are supposed to go away? Or that YOU will go away?, like maybe even die first, before they issue you a new engine?

If this happened to someone like my dad, the phone wires would be on fire. The first day! A year and half has gone by! What is everyone waiting for?
 
  #16  
Old 01-27-10, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bluesbreaker View Post
I'll answer all your questions here.

MarbobJ: You asked if I heard this when the engine was coming off a rise in RPM's. This EXACTLY what I heard. But after lifters put in, I here rattling, or knocking from the valve train (or engine) after it warns up

No troublecodes, passed emissions friday. Oil pressure, coolant temp ok

Ecman51. No Ecman I didn't do any warranty service. The 3 valve adjustments and lifter replacement were done by mechanic. I told mechanic and Jasper about this stuff very early on, and they stalled me and told me to wait till 1000 miles. then I was stalled further because the mechanic claimed not to hear anything and kept telling me to record it. Finally after a long period, he was able to hear it and I was able to record it.

The way it works, is that the mechanic tells Jasper what he thinks should be done. Then Jasper authorizes him to do the work.

Like I said before, I have records, dates, emails, receipts, recordings. Tomorrow , the mechanic wants to drive it on the freeway. I said, why didn't we do that before?

Mechanic keeps insisting if there is an engine problem, Jasper and I will do right by you. I have to cooperate with them a little longer.
Like the other poster said, I knew what engine company you had used when you said the labor rate they paid. I hope you can get the engine company to do right (I don't even like to mention their name). And I can guarantee that your mechanic is losing his rear end on this deal too.

Your mechanic needs to get the area rep to come by and look at your situation with as many issues as you have had.
 
  #17  
Old 01-27-10, 04:34 PM
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The mechanic is going to drive it tomorrow. I am not even leaving the car with him. I am riding with him and then taking it back to work after his road test. He is especially interested in the shuddering, vibration issue. Feels like there is a little resistance holding it back also. Mechanic is guessing that symptom is a transmission/driveline issue. Maybe so, But that won't divert my attention away from the valve rattling, knocking. That rattling is in rhythym with increasing revs in neutral or park. I don't think this can be passed off as a transmission problem.

Don't worry. There is a reason I have been documenting all this. Just waiting for the right time, which will be very, very soon if I don't get the correct response. Plus I lost my temper with them over the phone, So thay know how I feel

But they haven't actually refused anything yet. Maybe they will do the right thing. I know I will never do this again.
 
  #18  
Old 01-28-10, 04:20 AM
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You could have a ton of hardware problems with the engine. Normally when you work on something you have a history of at one point it has been working and you deal with something that has gone wrong.

When someone has broken into it and completely redone it as in "remanned it" everything they worked on is suspect.

Normally the valve train noise, just in terms of valve lash is more of a tick, unless something has really let go, like a stuck/broken valve. Associated performance problems can go a lot farther, though and cause rattling and severe vibrations. An exhaust valve issue on one cylinder affects mainly just that one cylinder, but an intake valve can wreck your intake vacuum and just about everything that relies upon it- and that goes a long way.

In terms of what you have and what you're doing, I wouldn't mess with that thing a lot longer. Just the trips to the mechanic are a killer.

I would have another mechanic check everything mechanical on the engine, then press for warranty or whatever you can get out of it. I wouldn't rule out putting a low mileage salvage yard engine in it. There's a lot of 2.9s out there.
 
  #19  
Old 01-28-10, 05:26 AM
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A junkyard engine? Are you serious? No Way. Then I'm really asking for problems. I will be demanding a new engine from the manufacturer either today or tomorrow
 
  #20  
Old 01-28-10, 06:39 AM
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And what if the manufacturer refuses? The most you could do is try and recover your expenses from them, but realize since you took so long to do it, they may and will probably say you have no warranty claim on that engine, especially since it's been doing it from the get go. I am no legal or engine expert in the least bit. But if it were my vehicle I would have been on the manufacturer from the get go. I know a lot of people that have bought a salvage yard engine, and have gotten over 100,000 miles out of them. Marbobj was just trying to throw an idea out there, which is in fact a very good idea.
 

Last edited by crazycory22; 01-28-10 at 06:41 AM. Reason: Added more stuff
  #21  
Old 01-28-10, 09:26 AM
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It has a 3 year, 100,000 warranty. Whichever comes first
 
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Old 01-28-10, 09:34 AM
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....but is the warranty prorated? I assume the factory knows of all the troubles so far ??
 
  #23  
Old 01-28-10, 10:22 AM
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No. It is not pro-rated. But their labor rate is capped at $57 an hour unless you buy additional warranty. I found another mechanic who listened to the sound and said he is prepared to request a new engine. And he said he would lower his labor rate to prevent out of pocket cost for me as a last resort

I didn't mean to sound ungrateful for any suggestions such as Marbob and the salvage engine. But I am just upset about all this.
 
  #24  
Old 01-28-10, 11:41 AM
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The mechanic did his road test today. He says the shuddering and vibration are either shock absorbers or tires. But he is clearly hearing the engine rattle now, and he is going to request a new engine from manufacturer. Now I have to see if I will need to make a complaint about further out-of-pocket cost and lost labor charge
 
  #25  
Old 01-28-10, 03:29 PM
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Given a choice, I'd opt for the 2nd mechanic doing the work. The first mechanic either isn't as competent or he cares more about the manufacture than he does the customer
 
  #26  
Old 01-29-10, 05:56 AM
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This occurred to me as well. The only way I would let him finish the job is if he was able to resolve the labor issue completely.

I definitely hear what you're saying MarkSR.
 
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