Camry collision repair attempt


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Old 08-16-10, 11:40 PM
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Camry collision repair attempt

My 1995 Camry Wagon was involved in a collision. Being that the vehicle is 15 years old, insurance was for liability only. When the body shops stated $3000, I began Internet searching/shopping. I have the front end virtually rebuilt with respect to obtainable parts, but am having a primary issue obtaining/identifying one structural part. It runs from one quarter panel/front fender to the other and the radiator support brackets are anchored to it. Internet searching indicates it might be called a "header panel." See circled "header panel" photo below. If someone could confirm this and provide a source, I'd be grateful.

My second issue concerns the point of impact. The picture entitled "left part"(also circled) is actually the passenger side and intact. The picture entitled "right part"(also circled) is actually the driver side and damaged. The structure appears to be part of the car's frame and to which the reinforcement beam/bumper is attached. Can anyone tell me how I would go about either replacing, straightening or modifying this structural member?


left part

right part

header panel (?) part
 
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Old 08-17-10, 05:36 AM
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See if this helps you any:

EZ Body Parts Support&make=TOYOTA&model=CAMRY&year=1995



And just an observation, but from what I can see of the rest of the car, it's pretty beat. Lot of trouble for a car that won't be worth $1000 when you're done.
 
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Old 08-17-10, 10:07 AM
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Thumbs down

the frame /' bumper horns' are part of the uni body & not replaceable(in the DIY type drive way)- that is where the body shop/frame pulling machine comes in!!

same with the 'coresupport' (the part you call a header pannel)
the header pannel would be the outer body part in ftont of the hood (if it has one)
 
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Old 08-17-10, 12:27 PM
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Can you post more pictures of the ďEntireĒ front end? I understand you want to save money, but the front end looks pretty well pushed in to me. So much so that it looks like it needs to be pulled and re-aligned back into shape on a ďCar O Liner Frame MachineĒ.
 
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Old 08-18-10, 02:15 PM
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ASE MASTER

My intention is to replace the upper radiator support which appears to run from fender to fender as well as other bent parts. I've found great prices at various websites. Below is your link to the front end wide angle shot.


FRONT END WIDE ANGLE
 
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Old 08-18-10, 02:36 PM
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Looks like you were tailgating and speeding and then "POW". Even if I'm wrong and cause of accident is due to something else it doesn't matter. You can't fix this amount of damage without a ďCar O Liner Frame MachineĒ.
 
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Old 08-19-10, 05:56 AM
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Didn't blow the airbags?
 
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Old 08-19-10, 08:01 AM
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I agree with Sam. It needs to go on a frame machine. With a body integrated frame when even one metal cross brace is buckled , other parts are also pulled out of spec. For that upper rad support to move in so far for example something else also had to move. Just curious about what the upper fender to hood alignment on both sides is like now as well as the fender to door. Sometimes that is a good indicator but not always. These days total body tolerances are very tight, especially as manufacturers have improved their equipment and guage methods. On tight tolerances and fits, even back then, Toyota was ahead on that game. Upper rad supports these days are not only performing the function they did back in the old days, but are part of the total structure within the body's engineering.
 
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Old 08-20-10, 07:18 AM
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The accident occured in this fashion. My daughter got her permit. She was making a right turn at 12 MPH, lost control of the wheel and struck a vehicle waiting to turn left; turning vehicle was stationary. I will provide a side shot. Honestly, I dont feel the collision was all that severe; I've seen worse. Fender to door "looks" OK. Both doors open and close without any binding. I will provide a side shot from the pasenger side so you can see the degree of bend.
If I put it on a frame machine and ask to straighten the frame only(no re-building, I'll be doing that), what is the average cost?
 
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Old 08-20-10, 08:03 AM
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There never is an average cost for this kind of work, as there never is for body metal panel repairs verses replacement for which there are published standard times. It always depends on the time required to check, and then correct the damage. You might just want to let a shop look at it and give you their estimate of time against their shop rate, and negotate something if you can. In all frame straighening it always depends on how many pulls are required to bring it back to spec. The guys that do this everyday can pretty much guess right. A couple of hours of work maybe all that is required for instance. Sometimes the key shops used by insurance companies are more fair than others, and are used to negotiating a fair price. I would at least start with this approach if it were me.
 
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Old 08-20-10, 03:12 PM
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My thoughts exactly; airbags did not deploy. Why did you ask if the airbags deployed? Is it possible the speed at which we were travelling was not sufficient to deploy?
 
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Old 08-20-10, 05:52 PM
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Just a non-Pro...but airbags deploy based on many factors from the sensors. If those conditions were met and the bags DIDN'T deploy...that could be another big issue.
 
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Old 09-04-10, 06:58 AM
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Camry collision repair attempt

The Camry repair continues. In the process of removing the condenser and radiator after the colision, these two brackets (see photo link below) sort of fell to the bottom of the radiator support assembly. When two bolts were loosened from the condenser lines, I tried threading the bolts back in to place, but they kept spinning freely. I did notice a broken-off bolt in one of the brackets. Are these brackets some type of condenser line retaining bracket? The condenser-radiator was pushed back far enough, that removal of the condenser-radiator was possible from the front only, rather than removing the cooling fans first followed by radiator and then condenser. Had I been able to follow this order, I may have seen these brackets. Hopefully, someone can help identify or confirm the identity.

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/z...i/brackets.png
 
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Old 09-04-10, 07:21 AM
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Just wondering about airbags since that would have probably doubled the repair cost and put the total way past the value of the vehicle.
 
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Old 09-04-10, 07:21 AM
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Hope your replace that left front rail. It needs to be pulled out and replaced properly. Cutting and welding per manufacturers specs. If not I hope your not gonna put your daughter back in that car
 
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Old 09-04-10, 08:55 AM
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Airbags have never deployed in the 15 years I've owned the vehicle. I've reported it to Toyota as a potential manufacturing defect. I was able to find a local frame shop, a guy who turns out to be the frame specialist that virtually all the "body shops" in town send their vehicles to for frame alignment prior to the body shops doing all the cosmetic work. He gave me an awesome price to perform a frame alignment, wheel alignment as well as weld in place a new radiator support assembly which was essential to perform a proper frame alignment. So, can you identify the part?
 
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Old 09-04-10, 01:30 PM
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(Quote) I was able to find a local frame shop, a guy who turns out to be the frame specialist that virtually all the "body shops" in town send their vehicles to for frame alignment prior to the body shops doing all the cosmetic work.

(Quote) So, can you identify the part?

Tell me if the common sense of the logic below appeals to you?

We can only see the part you want us to identify through pictures.

Frame specialist has your entire vehicle in front of him. He can see and touch the part you are asking us to identify with pictures only.

Am I missing something? Please correct me if Iím wrong, but isnít the frame specialist (and not one of us) in a better position to indentify the part in question since he can see the part, touch it, and examine it?
 
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Old 09-04-10, 03:07 PM
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If you've read the posts, I'm rebuilding the vehicle front end myself. Before you jump all over me, why don't you take the time to read the posts or don't bother contributing anything. This is a DIY website, frame specialist was done with frame alignment in 24 hours; I asked him to align the frame only.
 
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Old 09-04-10, 03:53 PM
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bobioni,

(Quote) If you've read the posts,

I have

(Quote) I'm rebuilding the vehicle front end myself.

I know

(Quote) Before you jump all over me,

Donít get your panties all in wad dear. Wasnít jumping on you. Was just asking a few questions with the intent of helping you further.

(Quote) why don't you take the time to read the posts or don't bother contributing anything.

Good advice. Problem is I read to well. Consider my input gone.

(Quote) This is a DIY website.

So do it yourself.

(Quote) frame specialist was done with frame alignment in 24 hours;

24 hours?
Sure heís a specialist?
5 hour job tops.

(Quote) I asked him to align the frame only.

You lack of preparation is not my problem.

You had the specialist there.

If you didnít ask him to identify the part then and at that time, then what do you want from me?

A few others here may be willing to help you.

Change your attitude Miss/Mrs.

Asking for help, and then biting the hand that is trying to help you doesnít work well on this forum.
 
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Old 09-04-10, 04:01 PM
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Let's keep this thread civil so I won't have to close it.
 
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Old 09-04-10, 04:16 PM
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What I would do on a project like that, which would be worth the time, is find a car like yours either in salvage or on a lot and take your camera with you. Snap all the pictures you can.

It would get you through a lot of obstacles.

Those brackets look like something that holds a grommet in the forks of them.

As far as the time the shop is taking for the job, they may be welding some replacement parts in rather than just pulling things back into alignment.

When you say the bags haven't deployed in the past 15 years - has it been in accidents before?
 
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Old 09-04-10, 04:29 PM
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Canít blame you for wanting to shut down the thread tow guy. Seems like a good idea to me, but donít do it yet buddy. Defeats the purpose of why this forum exists in the first place. Poster with question will suffer. Iím finished with him, but others may want to help.

BG
Sam
 
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Old 09-05-10, 12:57 AM
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Marbobj:
Thanks for your input; truly appreciated. I had taken pictures at various stages of the disassembly after the collision. This bracket issue had been the only obstacle. During the condensor installation, the bracket mystery was solved. The brackets were part of the condenser assembly to which the condenser lines are anchored.
As far as the frame specialist completing the work in 24 hours; he completed the work in a timely fashion. I am not 79 and retired, waiting for him to finish the work; I was notified at work approximately 4 hours after leaving him the vehicle and I was back to the rebuild 24 hours later on my day off. I should have stated that more clearly. You were right; he did have to do some welding to straighten the bumper rail as well as welding in place the radiator support assembly. I'm hoping to have everything completed by Sunday afternoon.
As far as the airbags go, this was the first accident/collision this vehicle has encountered. Thank you again for replying and helping a DIYer get it done.
 
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Old 09-05-10, 07:43 AM
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I wouldn't back off doing a project like that. When I got back from overseas in the military I pulled a firebird back into shape with a farm tractor and and a set of rachet load binders with log chains. I started with a good hood and pulled everything back from a three inch sway to fit the hood. When I got finished I took it to an alignment shop to align the front end. They said it was close enough for them to get it.

I'm not quite clear on the air bags. You were concerned about them not deploying prior to the only accident or something about them that lead you to believe they wouldn't deploy? I see why you thought maybe they should have this time. It could have been just a borderline impact that didn't cross the threshold.

The time at the frame shop is really pretty good.

Good luck.
 
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Old 09-05-10, 10:35 AM
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Sit back and think for a moment......

Has anyone ever noticed a Race car (nascar, formula 1, or any Circuit type vehicle) slap off of a wall at 180 miles per hour, skid across the track , get pummelled by three more cars, leaving debris everywhere. and when all is said and done..the driver hops out of the car and kicks the tire before he waves a reassuring gesture to the crew that he is ok??????
Has anyone ever wondered how the "Hey-Day" of the automobiles in the 50's 60's and 70's, when the average vehicle was close to 4000 pounds, and the bumper alone you couldnt lift without two of your friends, but todays little fiberglass and aluminum "Tin cans" are so much safer in a crash????
Forget about airbags and traction control and anti lock brakes or stability controls for a moment.

Basic Physics Says an "Object in motion tends to stay in motion" unless there is a sufficient "Opposing Force to That Motion".
A sufficient force ....what is sufficient???? At 10 mph, applying the brakes does not instantly stop the car, but rather slows it drastically , until the opposing forcee is capable of overcoming motion.
Bottom line....You are safe in the vehicle until it comes to a complete stop. The longer it stays moving, the safer you are. Folding fenders and breaking glass absorb a portion of the energy required for the for the opposing force to overcome motion. (ie.Crumple zones on newer vehicles). The more "Carnage" that is done to the vehicle , the more the energy absorbed,the longer it stays in motion, and the less opposing force needed to stop it from its current "Forward Energy" level.
The problem comes when Forward motion is exhausted bbefore opposing force is finished. This difference in motion vs force, Is called "INERTIA".

Airbags are designed to withstand a predetermined amount of inertia, over a predetermined span of time. It is a mthematical formula, carried out by a computer thousands of times during your 15 minute ride to work.

In this particular case, it is completely feasible, that the computer simply does not agree with you guys as to whether or not the bags should deploy...and sorry , but he aint talking.
 
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Old 09-05-10, 08:01 PM
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Camry collision repair attempt

That's the most definitive explanation I could ask for. Thanks for the informative input. Well, I put it all back together today; just waiting on a bumper bracket on Tuesday which will allow the bumper cover to go on and trying to look for the spot where the "Radiator Side Deflector" should be secured. See #6 in the parts diagram below.

radiator side deflector
 
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Old 09-05-10, 09:38 PM
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heck, i'll be the one to give you some encouragement.
don't give up. i used to drive past neighbour's Quest that apparently was in roll over accident.
it, basically, looked like crimped rounded can. not a live spot left.
been sitting in their property for about a year. then it vanished, and returned all shaped and primed.
now it's nice navy blue color van. drives and is in use daily. you can tell it's not OEM paint, not enough gloss, otherwise - no telling.

never give up, never surrender. it's just metal.
 
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Old 09-06-10, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Unclediezel View Post
...and sorry , but he aint talking.
Well, we could get out the thumb-screws....

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting they should have blown; I've seen lots of cars with destroyed front ends that didn't blow the bags. A common "interface" is one with mismatching bumper heights where the trailing vehicle rearends one with a higher bumper and the vehicle in back gets a relatively slow crumpling of the grill, hood, etc vice the much more abrupt impact of bumper-to-bumper. I was concerned the bags had blown and a lot of time and effort was going to be expended before realizing the total cost.
 
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Old 09-09-10, 09:34 AM
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Camry collision repair attempt

Can someone tell me the function aa well as location of the radiator deflectors(Toyota part # 53293-06010 & 53294-06010 on a 1995 Camry wagon, LE, 4 cyl, 2L?
 
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Old 09-17-10, 07:01 PM
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Camry collision repair attempt

The Camry reconstruction is complete minus a grille and an emblem I'm waiting on. Thanks to all the patient DIYers who were so encouraging as well as motivational. See pics below.

I'd like to tackle replacing the motor mount(s). With the proper equipment, is this something I can do in my driveway?



FRONTENDBEFORE

FRONTENDAFTER2

FRONTENDAFTER1
 
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Old 09-18-10, 06:41 PM
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bobi, how much? the whole repair?
that year camrys are anywhere between $2500 to 3500. just curious.
 
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Old 09-19-10, 10:41 PM
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Ukrbyk:
My frame guy trued the bumper rail, welded in an aftermarket radiator support assembly and did a 4-wheel alignment for $400. The remaining parts for the reconstruction came from Internet aftermarket providers as well as auto salvage yards for a parts total of $350; all assembled in my driveway. The grand total, $750was a far cry from the $3000-$4000 quotes I received when this entire episode began.
 

Last edited by bobioni; 09-19-10 at 10:58 PM. Reason: Missing info
 

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