2006 Equinox stumbles

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  #1  
Old 08-26-10, 05:53 AM
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2006 Equinox stumbles

2006 Chev Equinox 3400 V6 (56,000 miles) stumbles only at about 1,700 RPM between 35 and 50 mph.
All other speed and RPM combos are fine. Even does it when not in overdrive

Any suggestions from you GM guys.......?
 
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  #2  
Old 08-26-10, 07:25 AM
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I had some small performance issues with my 2005 and once the throttle body and injectors were cleaned the issues were solved. Without the CEL on, it could be something like this with yours. Only a hopeful guess because after that it can start to get a little more expensive.. Mine were cleaned at 65,000 miles. I also had the PCM reflashed up to the latest software level because at least on the 2005 there were some corrections made along the way.
 
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Old 08-26-10, 09:24 AM
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Test your Throttle Position Sensor. Here is a video on how to do that...
How to test and replace your car's throttle position sensor | Video « Wonder How To
 
  #4  
Old 08-26-10, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by equinox View Post
I had some small performance issues with my 2005 and once the throttle body and injectors were cleaned the issues were solved. Without the CEL on, it could be something like this with yours. Only a hopeful guess because after that it can start to get a little more expensive.. Mine were cleaned at 65,000 miles. I also had the PCM reflashed up to the latest software level because at least on the 2005 there were some corrections made along the way.
In your reply you mentioned "Without the CEL on".......
What is the CEL......?

What did they charge for your service?
 
  #5  
Old 08-26-10, 10:52 AM
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CEL = Check Engine Light or Service Engine Soon light.

When these lights come on, you can plug in a "code reader" and read a "diagnostic code". The code will point to a specific problem with the vehicle.

Some auto parts stores will read the codes for free for you.

Edit: Also known as... MIL! Malfunction Indicator Lamp
 
  #6  
Old 08-26-10, 02:47 PM
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The Equinox has 2 diaognostic alarm lights that can come on in the instrument cluster. SES, meaning service engine soon, and a second one SVS, meaning service vehicle soon. The second one is more related to things like a burned out bulb.

If you decide to take it into something like a Chevy Stealer, you will likely pay something north of $100.00 for a complete injector and throttle body flush.
 
  #7  
Old 08-27-10, 11:11 AM
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The 3400 motors have two common issues that can cause this. Issue number one is bad fuel injectors. Often the injector occasionally sticks slightly and either doesnt fire at all or fires late. It is usually not enough to trigger an ses light for the miss fire but the miss fire will show if you are watching the misfire counter on a tech 2, meaning that there will be no code stored so auto store could not help you there, only dealer. The tech 2 allows the technician to watch the engine misfires on each cylinder in real time and it also keeps record of any previous miss fires that may have happened. There are alot of things that can cause slight misfires from time to time so the pcm will allow for some minor missfires without turning on the ses light. Do not get a fuel system flush! I believe in these whole heartedly as a maintenance tool but it is not a repair. may help initially but problem will come back. I GUARENTEE! The second problem associated with this motor is a bad coil pack. This car has a 3 coils that produce the spark the engine uses to detonate the fuel. each coil operates two cylinders and usually you can see the white numbers on the coils that denote which cylinders they control. To diagnose this, you once again need to hook up to a tech two and look at the stored missfire history to see which cylinders have the highest number of missfires. If it is say cylinders 1 & 4, and you look at the coils at see that one coil controls cylinder one and four, you know its a bad coil. Coils can be found by following spark plug wires. plug wires run directly from the spark plug to the coil.
 
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Old 08-27-10, 04:25 PM
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Is the terminology, running a "data stream" the same as "tech 2"?
 
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Old 08-27-10, 05:05 PM
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Mackey,

Let’s not put the cart before the horse here. The basics must be ruled out first, before graduating to the next level, and anticipating a greater issue. Since you have 56.000 miles on your Equinox;

Has the fuel filter been changed recently?

Can you pull the plugs and describe the burn to us?

Have you used an engine vacuum pressure tester to rule out vacuum leaks?

Have you confirmed and operational EGR valve?

Have you used a fuel system pressure gauge to confirm fuel PSI pressure and volume?

I’m thinking the possibility of a fuel injector issue, so post the results of a Fuel Leak Down Test.

I’m thinking the possibility of a “Valve Issue”, so post the results of a Compression AND Cylinder Leak Down Test.

PSI values appear below. Confirmation of the values and above is necessary before taking this to the next level.


Fuel system psi at idle, at normal operating temperature (50-60 PSI).
 
  #10  
Old 08-27-10, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Is the terminology, running a "data stream" the same as "tech 2"?
A Tech 2 is a terribly expensive scan tool the dealers use.

Then you also need this...
https://www.acdelcotds.com/acdelco/action/subscribehome

And this (SI)...
ACDelco TechConnect - TSS - Technical Support - si and TIS 2

Here is one on sale with the Candi module...
Bosch OTC 3646 - GM Tech 2 Deluxe with 2010 Software and Candi Module
 
  #11  
Old 08-28-10, 03:47 AM
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ecman51,

Here are some fundamentals that will help. I purposely kept it simple.


Freeze Frame

When an emission-related fault occurs the “ECM” records certain engine conditions. This data is referred to as “Freeze Frame data”. The data is a “snapshot” of the engine operating conditions at the time the fault occurred. This data can be overwritten by faults of a higher priority.


View and Live Data

View data and live data allows for the viewing of the vehicles (PID). “Parameter Identification Data” in real time. While the “ECM” monitors the engine, the data is simultaneously transmitted to a scan tool. Besides reading codes, View data is the most useful diagnostic function for isolating the cause of an engine problem. Viewing data can also be used for observing sensor data and the status of switches, solenoids and relays.
 
  #12  
Old 08-28-10, 04:42 AM
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Mackey,

Forgot about this TSB that’s out for your Equinox. Just remembered now. Sorry about that. Don’t get old buddy (LOL). If everything I posted yesterday checks out, and the issue still remains apply the TSB.


http://www.gmdesolutions.com/equipme...t_bulletin.PDF
 
  #13  
Old 08-28-10, 10:13 AM
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All that "Tech 2" business is quite complex these days. The problem is they have used that for years and everybody knows how to use it, but with newer vehicles, it is too small and does not have enough memory to do the job. So they add on modules like the Candi which passes through information from a PC and the internet.

What they need instead is a wireless PC on a network and just a connection to the connector on the vehicle. But some dealers have just installed a computer network. They did not have that before. Takes time to change things.

The new GM PC gizmo is called a MDI...
General Motors MDI (Multiple Diagnostic Interface)wireless

As to "code reading" and "live data". That is easier to understand with an older vehicle. Most people understand reading the codes with a scan tool...

For live data on an older GM vehicle, at the following link are screen shots of the information you would get. The following is for an older GM ALDL connector and you get the live data by running "WinALDL" software on a PC with a wired connection to the ALDL connector. WinALDL is free, but you need to make your own wire or buy one. This will not work on 1996 and newer GM vehicles which are OBD II...
WinALDL version history
 
  #14  
Old 08-30-10, 10:45 AM
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More than a few early model Equinox owners experienced these kinds of problems with their China built 3.4, beginning with early symptoms of occaisional hard starting. The TSB mentioned was written for this reason at least according to the Chevy dealer I brought mine to. My vote goes for injector cleaning per the TSB especially with the mileage on the vehicle. This might be a case where going back to the dealer to ensure that the correct cleaning product is used might also make sense.
 
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Old 08-30-10, 03:57 PM
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Is this common for injectors to need cleaning? If so, why did they invent them if they are a problem issue? Isn't there an oil company that advertises that it's gas helps keep injectors clean? Will switching to their gas help clear up fouled injector issues? Or is all gas today pretty much the same that way?
 
  #16  
Old 08-30-10, 05:53 PM
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Thanks for all of the great replies and the TSB Ace.....

New development......the engine light has been coming on every other day. It's a steady light. It goes out on it's own for a while then comes back on in a day or two.

I checked the gas cap and it has no vacuum shoosh sound when removing the cap.
I've been putting in injector cleaner in with every new tank full hoping that will take care of it.

I will be replacing the fuel filter next weekend.

I had a 2001 Malibu with 3.1L V6 and put 300K on that motor and all it ever needed was an intake gasket kit.

I'm not real impressed with this motor so far.
I bought the car used with 32K on last January.

BTW.....I posted it as an Equinox for simplicity sake but it's actually a Pontiac Torrent......identical to Equinox. That really shouldn't matter....should it.....? unless this is a manufacturing plant issue?
 
  #17  
Old 08-31-10, 06:40 AM
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Not sure if your fuel filter is servicable or not. The '05 is not considered a maintenance item for whatever reason and is inside the fuel tank and is consider non-servicable. If the '06 is the same as the '05 it could turn out to be the most expensive fuel filter you ever changed. Both the Chevy and Pontiac versions were made at the GM CAMI plant in Canada on the same line. Both are identical vehicles mechanically. It does sound like it is now time to get the OBD2 codes read also. I haven't heard of any major issues with the GM Shanghai built 3.4 engine they used in yours other than like in some other engines there have been some reported head gasket failures.
 
  #18  
Old 08-31-10, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by equinox View Post
Not sure if your fuel filter is servicable or not. The '05 is not considered a maintenance item for whatever reason and is inside the fuel tank and is consider non-serviceable.
I haven't been under it yet but are you saying that they no longer have an external canister inline frame mount fuel filter?
and that it's inside the tank?

My Malibu fuel tank was easy to remove. (out in 10 to 15 min)
It ate fuel pumps so I got good at it. I'm hoping this tank is as easy as the Malibu.
 
  #19  
Old 08-31-10, 10:43 AM
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The fuel filter if the same as an '05 is in the tank. Are you sure you need to get into that repair at this time. It probably is not the most obvious cause of your problems. I would get the codes read first.
 
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Old 08-31-10, 11:19 AM
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(Quote)New development......the engine light has been coming on every other day.

(QUOTE) I posted it as an Equinox for simplicity sake but it's actually a Pontiac Torrent......identical to Equinox.

Equinox or Torrent doesn't matter. What does matter is the check engine light. It's coming on because it's doing it's job. It's telling you that the cars PCM (computer) is storing at least one code. To find out out what the code (or codes) are the computer has to be read. Stores like Auto Zone will scan your cars computer free and tell you what the code or codes are, Have a scan done and post the code or codes here so we can see them.
 
  #21  
Old 09-03-10, 07:07 AM
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I went to A Zone to get code read but kept getting a "Communication Error" on the OBDII reader.
Any possibilities why getting a com error on reader?
 
  #22  
Old 09-03-10, 08:35 AM
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One possibility is that the scanner was set on the wrong OBD2 protocol. There are 3 to chose from. Did it appear that the Auto Zone guy taking the scan had done lots of these before?
 
  #23  
Old 09-03-10, 01:22 PM
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Try another autoparts store.

If same problem, I would take it to a factory dealer.
 
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Old 09-03-10, 04:38 PM
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(Question) I went to A Zone to get code read but kept getting a "Communication Error" on the OBDII reader. Any possibilities why getting a com error on reader?

Yes. Simply stated, the answer is that sometimes the folks at Auto Zone can get “greedy: They know if they scan your cars ”ECM”, and tell you the code or codes, that you will end up going to your own mechanic to get the problem fixed.

So they end up giving you a "BS" story like "No Communication"


They don't want you going to your mechanic to have the problem fixed. They want to sell you a “Laundry List” of parts, materials, and tools that you don’t need, and that have nothing to do with repairing your problem. They will go to great lengths to make it sound convincing as well.

Every once in a while (When I’m in the mood and neighborhood), I’ll stop by an “Auto Zone” store , and just do a little test to see who’s on their toes.

Such a test took place on August 29, (Just a few days ago). I stopped by an “Auto Zone” store and asked “Tara Moesha Kennedy” why my “68 Impala SS” (327) wouldn’t start? Without hesitation she told me my “ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP” needed to be changed.

I said to her; “Are you sure this car has an electric fuel pump? It’s all original, and a friend of mine who really knows a lot about cars told me that the pump is mechanical”?

“Tara” pushed some buttons on her computer and said;

“Well sir, there is no such thing as a mechanical fuel pump. All fuel pumps are electric. With all due respect to you friend, I’ve been working for “Auto Zone” for 13 years. For your car to start all you have to do is change the “electric fuel pump”.


FYI an “All original 68 Impala SS 327” has a mechanical fuel pump with a delivery rate of 7.44 psi. Ok so now you’re mad at me. You want to know why I recommended Auto Zone? Sorry but, not all the folks that work at Auto Zone are as “dumb” as Tara.

If you want you can try a different store to get the codes. Honestly codes are not even necessary. If you describe to us in detail any and all drivability issues you are having, we can resolve your problem without codes.
 
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Old 09-03-10, 04:53 PM
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Sam, they couldn't have profited by selling you a part your car does not have. Sounds like that person was not up on old cars - and that might be all there is to the story. A company like that is not going to have the national success they do if they intentionally gave out false information.
 
  #26  
Old 09-03-10, 07:23 PM
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ASE.......you're like me man....wow!
I love your story about the fuel pump.
I can't believe that many "Automotive Professionals" try to pull the wool over my eyes like I'm some run-of-the-mill dolt. I can count on one hand how many times I had to bring a car to a real repair shop in the last 33 years.
I can hold my own in most cases with most automotive problems.
Actually in this instance the A Zone guy let me hook up the reader and run the diagnostics myself because he couldn't leave the store.
He kept saying that I had a bad harness receptacle. I just humored him.....he was a young guy.
I'm now wondering if I should have had the e-brake on if that would have made a difference.
I am gonna try a different store.
 
  #27  
Old 09-03-10, 07:38 PM
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Again the car runs great, it accelerates smoothly and idles smoothly. The engine only stumbles when in high gear and at low rpms between 1500 to 1900.
 
  #28  
Old 09-03-10, 08:21 PM
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It is possible there is a problem with the engine computer. Or with the electrical connection between the connector and the engine computer. Or a problem with the code reader you were using.

Also be sure to enter accurate information. If the code reader asks for your engine type or transmission type, and you enter the wrong thing, that could cause problems too.

If you are not sure, you can take your VIN number to a factory dealer parts department and ask for a printout of your option codes or "RPO codes". And they could tell you what is in the vehicle or you probably could find that on the internet.
 
  #29  
Old 09-05-10, 12:26 PM
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Here are the codes.......

PO405 and UOO73
 
  #30  
Old 09-05-10, 02:42 PM
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Those should be "zero" and not the letter O.

Anyway searching google.com for DTC and your numbers, I get this...

Google

...and this..

Google

If you do in fact have a problem with a "communication bus" (cars can have 3 local area "computer networks"), then that would be a dealer thing. Or something for an advanced electronics type to troubleshoot using the factory service manual set of books and wiring diagrams.

What *could* cause that problem is if do-it-yourself wiring was added and they tapped into a computer local area network wire. These wires can go to everything including the radio.
 
  #31  
Old 09-05-10, 09:23 PM
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Today I removed the EGR valve and it didn't look too bad inside.
Put it back together and reseated the connector.
The engine light is out again now.
So let's see if it comes back on again in the next couple of days.

P.S. this morning I did find one of the plug wires wasn't completely seated on the coil pack. (pushed it all the way down).
 
  #32  
Old 09-06-10, 10:08 AM
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Mackey,

Controller Area Network (CAN).

U0073 Control Module Communication Bus "A" Off.

(CAN) is a “Common Data Bus” circuit that allows computers and electronic control modules in vehicles to communicate with each other. Imagine a high speed party line that allows computer data and commands to travel back and fourth at fiber optic speeds or faster.

Power train Control Module (PCM)

Antilock brake and traction control (ECM)

Stability control and electronic steering (ECM)

Electronic suspension (ECM)

Automatic climate control system (ECM)

Keyless entry system (ECM)

Lighting control modules and dozens of other systems and modules are interconnected and can interconnect electronically.








Much more info coming. Log onto forum at around 10 PM tonight.
 
  #33  
Old 09-06-10, 11:12 AM
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While researching the U0073 code and if I understood correctly, the code will be produced and the com bus will take it self out of the CAN circuit if something else fails 225 times......probably the P0405 code (EGR failure).

Does that theory sound plausible?
 
  #34  
Old 09-06-10, 03:16 PM
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The question is... On your specific vehicle, what bus or local area network is "A"? And what all is on that network?

There can be 3 different computer networks on a vehicle. And you might have a high speed "realtime" network for the engine stuff. This means as soon as something happens, the information is sent over the network.

Then other networks might be slower. It is not important if you tell the computer to roll up a window or turn on the A/C and it takes a half a second rather than 1/200 of a second.

But basically stuff inside the car would be on the different slower networks. (For GM called GMLAN.)

Then there is a connecting computer between different networks called a "gateway" computer.

So the different networks can send messages back and forth.

Anyway you would need to figure out which network was causing the trouble. Then also see if the EGR sensor was directly connected to the engine computer or was connected to something else which needs to send that information to the engine computer via that network.

Then say there are 5 computers (modules) on a network. If one module in not working right, the other modules might ignore it or even shut it down. Then the other modules would issue a check engine light and record a code that the other module was not working as it should.

Sort of like if you were at a party with 5 people in a circle talking, and one person kept interrupting. The others in the circle might tell that person to go away!

But it might not be a problem with a module at all. The computer network needs a certain "resistance" to function properly (called an end of line resistor). And needs a certain "quietness" to function properly. Using non-factory parts can cause electrical "noise" and keep a computer network from working properly. A CB radio added on can cause noise*. Or a stereo tapped into a computer network could cause noise or alter the network "resistance".

Or there could be a loose connector somewhere and this alters the resistance of the network.

But the dealer has advanced testing equipment which can check computer networks and see what is going on. Maybe "ask" (so to speak) the various modules on a network what happened?

This equipment goes way beyond what a code reader can do...

*FYI - Big trucks have just as much electronic stuff as cars these days. Truckers are having quite a bit of fun trying to route their CB antenna wires so they don't cause trouble with the computer networks...

Here is one where the truck dies when he keys his CB. EMI is Electro Magnetic Interference...
EMI + CB = Stall - NASIOC
 
  #35  
Old 09-06-10, 03:21 PM
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Not going to the dealer if I can help it.
 
  #36  
Old 09-07-10, 05:16 AM
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Mackey,

Sorry this info is arriving late.

The EGR in your in your Equinox is digital/linear. Means EGR get’s its commands from the PCM. All you can do is clean the pintile on the EGR with “Throttle Body” cleaner. Pintile must be free of carbon. Also confirm the electrical connections at the EGR are on tight and free of all dirt and corrosion. Cleaning the connections with “Electric Contact” cleaner would be a good thing.

Understand perfectly why you would prefer not to go to a dealer. But you may be entitled to a “Free PCM Upgrade”. I say that because of the information below and because I have a gut instinct that the “U” error occurred first (due to PCM failure) and then set PO405.Call Chevy to file a complaint (Number below) and to confirm if your Equinox is part of the recall.

(800) 222-1020

Product Emission - PCM Integrated Circuit Chip Damage-Replace PCM

THIS BULLETIN IS BEING REVISED TO ADD 2005 AND 2006 MODEL YEAR VEHICLES TO THE RECALL. PLEASE DISCARD ALL COPIES OF 05539.

Condition

General Motors has decided to conduct a Voluntary Emission Recall involving certain 2005 Chevrolet Malibu, Uplander, Equinox, Classic, Silverado; GMC Sierra; Pontiac Sunfire, Grand Am, G6. Grand Prix, Montana SV6; Buick LaCrosse/Allure, Terraza; Saturn Relay; and 2006 Pontiac G6 model vehicles. The Power train (Engine Control Module (PCM/ECM) in these vehicles may have been manufactured with damaged internal IC chips, which may affect the Fuel Pump Control and EGR outputs of the PCM; or the Fuel Pump Control and Variable Nozzle Turbo Control (VNTC) outputs of the Diesel ECM. Customers may experience illumination of the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) or drivability complaints.

Correction

Dealers are to replace the Power train (Engine Control Module (PCM / ECM).
 
  #37  
Old 09-07-10, 10:09 AM
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Mackey,

Again, sorry this info is late. Best to print this out and show it to the mecanic who will applying the TSB I posted in my last answer.

PO405. This is basic and fundamental. I purposely kept it simple.

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION

EGR valve is allowing a flow past itself. The PCM monitors the EGR valve pintle position input. This is to confirm that the valve responds correctly to the commands from the PCM and to detect a fault if the pintle position sensor circuit is open or shorted. If the PCM detect an excessively low EGR Position sensor signal voltage, this diagnostic trouble code (DTC) will set.

CONDITIONS FOR RUNNING THE DTC

The system voltage is greater than 10 volts .

CONDITIONS FOR SETTING THE DTC

The EGR Position sensor is less than 0.14 volts at any time.

The condition is present for more than 20 seconds .

ACTION TAKEN WHEN THE DTC SETS

The control module illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) on the second consecutive ignition cycle in which the diagnostic runs and fails. The control module records the operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. The control module stores this information in the Freeze Frame/Failure Records. The PCM disables the EGR valve for the ignition cycle.

Check the voltage on the Brown wire pin C at the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve. If it is less than 0.3 volts, disconnect the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve and jumper the Gray wire on pin D to the Brown wire.

If the scan tool now indicates 5 volts for EGR position, replace the EGR valve.

If the scanner indicates less than 0.3 volts, check the Brown wire and the Gray for an open circuit or short to ground to the PCM terminal 28 and 30 of the clear connector.

Check the terminal contact at the EGR valve and the PCM.
 
  #38  
Old 09-08-10, 07:48 PM
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Thanks ASE.......that's great stuff!

The DTC has not come on in two days now since I removed and inspected the EGR valve.

I did notice that there was no gasket between the EGR valve and the pipe. I don't believe that's supposed to be like that since the exhaust manifold to EGR pipe has a gasket.

The stumbling has greatly diminished but I can still detect it slightly, nothing like it was. I'm guessing that manifold vacuum is leaking at the joint with no gasket.
 
  #39  
Old 09-29-10, 05:07 AM
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2006 Equinox A/C issues

My 2006 Equinox LT 3.4 V6 is having a A/C problem. It will be blowing out nice cold air, then I get a vapor then it seems to freeze up. The fan will be on but no air. I will switch off the A/C but leave the fan on and then eventually the air speeds back up and I can switch the air back on. I repeat this every 15 min or so.

I did have it checked for leaks, found none. System is fully charged and the In Cabin filter has been changed. I am trying to avoid the dealer as this is my only car and the wife and I car pool to work.

Thanks in advance for any ideas to solve this.

Nick
 
  #40  
Old 09-29-10, 05:36 AM
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It sounds like it could be a clogged evaporator drain. If so, water can build up inside and then freeze and restrict airflow, then melt once the system is turned off. This could be a good first place to start.
 
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