Rattle sound with new brake pads

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  #1  
Old 09-25-10, 05:45 PM
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Rattle sound with new brake pads

I have a 92' Ford Ranger with 2.9 V6. A few days ago, I had new front brake pads installed, rotors resurfaced, and bearings repacked. The rear brakes were fine, so no work was done there.

I took it back to mechanic because there was a rattle from the brakes. He said he would install "shims" to fix the problem, whatever this is.

The rattle or clicking came back today, though not as bad. I only hear it at low speeds timed with the rotation of the wheel, and not when the brakes are applied. I hate to take it back a second time, but the noise wasn't there before and it isn't normal

I did some reading, and people suggest that the problem is ears or tabs on aftermarket pads that are not bent in enough to hold the pads snugly. And the solution is to bend in tabs, or switch to a different brand of pad. Am I close, or maybe another cause? These are Wagner brake pads

I have had many brake pads installed over the years, and I never had this problem.

What are your thoughts on this.
 
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  #2  
Old 09-25-10, 09:15 PM
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bend in the tabs with a small ball peen hammer, or use some brake eze on the back of the pads just a small amount, like brille cream a little dab'll do ya.

Murphy was an optimist
 
  #3  
Old 09-25-10, 09:46 PM
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[QUOTE=bluesbreaker;1772218]I only hear it at low speeds timed with the rotation of the wheel, and not when the brakes are applied.

If the noise is in time with the rotation of the wheel, the rotor isn't cut square,,& the slides aren't lubed.. There are anti-rattle clips that come with new pads for Rangers, ( I know as I have one & have worked for a Ford dealer for 25 years) If he's putting shims in, it's because he forgot them the first time, but with the discription of the noise, I think a rotor has runout.. Make sure he has the anti-rattle clip to the bottom of the pad,, & there's nothing to bend here,, It's not a G.M product... Roger
 
  #4  
Old 09-25-10, 10:06 PM
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yeah, would love to hear that rattle. rattle is something loose. honestly, it may not even be coming from brakes, but it's a metal box, that was last job done, and "brakes it is". i had WEIRD S..T COINCIDENCES happen before.

so, here's what you want to do.
1. get a helper, drive into a major empty parking lot, and ask helper to drive in circles, left, then right. stand close to the car or walk next to it and listen to the noise.
2. jackstand control arms and spin wheels.

this should allow you to pin point rattle source. then investigate further. should it have been scraping noise, that's different story. rattle - might be a forgotten tool somewhere? a bolt or a nut? brake pads don't really rattle, you know. they may click when you change direction of rotor spin. reset themselves. but rattling?

it's prolly something real simple and real silly. happens.

oh, and here's a good one for you. did they use power tool or hand torqued lug nuts? power tool will not tighten lug nuts enough, and yes, loose wheel it is. and that will RATTLE. i know, i had 99 Ranger. even such a simple stuff, as dirty surfaces where wheel mates with hub/rotor - maybe a small metal shaving after turning, or even rust - anything that will place wheel on rotor crooked - will cause this.
 
  #5  
Old 09-26-10, 04:32 AM
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bluesbreaker,

(Quote) He said he would install "shims" to fix the problem, whatever this is.

Wrong, there are no shims to install that could possibility resolve the rattle.

(Quote) I hate to take it back a second time, but the noise wasn't there before and it isn't normal

Don’t feel that way. Take it back 100 times if necessary, but keep taking it back till it get’s corrected.

(Quote) I did some reading, and people suggest that the problem is ears or tabs on aftermarket pads that are not bent in enough to hold the pads snugly. And the solution is to bend in tabs.

Wrong. The tabs are short pieces of pre-formed “L shaped stock”. If you try to bend them they will break ”

(Quote) or switch to a different brand of pad.

Sometimes, but not in this case. Read on to find out why.

(Quote) Am I close, or maybe another cause?

Another cause for sure. The clicking is due to the fact that warped rotors were resurfaced when in fact they should have been replaced. If a rotor is warped it cannot be re-surfaced. If it is re-surfaced it becomes unsafe and too dangerous to be re-installed back on the vehicle.

Your mechanic failed big time by re-surfacing the rotors. He should have replaced them instead.

[U]You should strongly consider finding a new mechanic. Clearly he’s an amateur. He’s playing “Russian Roulette” with your life, and the lives of your passengers. [COLOR="red"]Even a novice or “Saturday morning [/COLOR]warrior” knows, you don’t play games with brakes, or cut corners to save money by re-surfacing warped rotors.[/U]

(Quote) These are Wagner brake pads

Wagner just barely rates as fair. For the future when it comes to pads, shoes, rotors, drums or anything that has to do with brakes there are only three names to remember

EBC
Raybestos
and Bembro

Best Regards
Sam
 
  #6  
Old 09-26-10, 12:01 PM
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This a brand new place I went to. Why does this happen so much. It seems like over half the time I get a repair, I have to take to back to be corrected.

I also notice something else. When I drive it, there seems to be slight vibration or jolt when I drive it..................almost like when I drive over a small bump or imperfection in the road.

Please check back later, I am going to post photos
 
  #7  
Old 09-26-10, 01:19 PM
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If a rotor is warped and it is trued up by resurfacing, I am not sure why they would be dangerous. As long as it is within specs.
 
  #8  
Old 09-26-10, 01:22 PM
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I have a couple photos if you click on the link below. Notice the bottom of the caliper. That one edge is sticking out like it is not flush with the other edge. The other wheel caliper is like that too. Is that normal?

I tried to jiggle the pads to see if there was any movement. There was a tiny bit of movement where I could almost feel or hear the pad tap against the rotor. Maybe "rattle" not too good a description of the sound. More like two clicks per one wheel rotation under 35 mph.

If new rotors should have been installed, how do I convince mechanic if he doesn't agree?

The brakes seem to work very well. And the mechanic said he resurfaced the rotors. Please advise.

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Last edited by bluesbreaker; 09-26-10 at 02:03 PM.
  #9  
Old 09-26-10, 01:28 PM
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Well..I learned the hard way michael. Most shops (read that as carry in places) don't check rotors for runout before and after. I guess the cutter just follows the warp? And warpage is also normally due to heat..which leaves hard spots..which reappear and cause bad pedal feel/pulsating next time they get hot.

Not sure if this the actual reasons...but that was my experience. Cutting new car rotors (thin when they're new most times) is not a good idea IMO. Pay $20 or so for turning...or $80 for new....not worth the PITA if there's a problem.
 
  #10  
Old 09-26-10, 04:18 PM
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don't see anything wrong with your rotor or caliper. if it was just turned and has new brake pads, what the heck put that long grove into it?

i am very seriously recommending to jack the wheels so that they do not bare any weight, and tug and shake them.
not the pads. WHEELS. something as simple as loose lug nut or 2 will cause rattling rotor or rattling wheel.
got hubcaps? metal ones? Ford favorite, clipped on top of lugnuts? that will rattle too.

but firstmost, you need to locate where the rattle is coming from. otherwise, it's a loss of time and guesswork. it's 4x4. you realize how many parts can rattle there?
 
  #11  
Old 09-26-10, 05:26 PM
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It looks like a groove. but it's nothing carved into the rotor.

I did jack it up wheels and tug and shake. Nothing abnormal. Lug nuts were fine. Mechanic used a torque wrench.
 
  #12  
Old 09-27-10, 05:16 AM
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bluesbreaker,

It’s not up to you to prove to your mechanic that the rotors are warped, and that they should have been replaced instead of re-surfaced.

The burden of proof is on your mechanic. He has to prove to you, that the rotors were not warped, and that they resurfacing them was the correct thing to do.

For your mechanic to prove that, he must put on demonstration for you using the tools in the links below. The third and fourth links are manufactures of tools for engine builders and blue printers. I’ve been dealing with them for decades. The last link is a video.

Answers to your unanswered questions are coming. Watch for them late in the day. No time right now, but wanted to get something (this) out to you.

Good luck and best regards
Sam.


How to Check Front Brake Rotors Step by Step

EBC Brakes | How to Check Brake Rotor Runout

MBR-1 <BR />Adjustable Dial Indicator Base | Item #MBR-1. | Goodson Tools & Supplies for Engine Builders

MFB-1 <BR />Flexible Dial Indicator Base | Item #MFB-1. | Goodson Tools & Supplies for Engine Builders

YouTube - Chapter 4: Using the Dial Indicator
 
  #13  
Old 09-27-10, 05:55 AM
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My comment (without taking sides as to whether or not it's a rotor issue) would be that if you tell your mechanic you want to replace the rotors there should be no discussion beyond maybe him telling you the cost differential. I certainly wouldn't try to sell a resurface if the customer wanted new rotors.
 
  #14  
Old 09-27-10, 02:07 PM
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bluesbreaker,

(Quote) It looks like a groove. but it's nothing carved into the rotor.

First thing I saw. Clear as day. The individuals who missed it are the people who don’t know what it is.

It gives the illusion of being a line that goes around the upper perimeter of the rotor right?

Well, what it actually is the area of the rotor that is warped. Due to the warp the blade on the lathe couldn’t make contact with the rotor. This means that the rotor was actually re-surfaced from the line down. From the line up the rotor was never cut, so the warp remains.

(Question) Why does this happen so much. It seems like over half the time I get a repair, I have to take to back to be corrected.

Easy

Unqualified instructor
Improper training
Poor training

No training.
(Everyone is a self made ASE MASTER)



Biggest reasons?

Individual, trainee, or student, doesn’t have the motivation or drive to take pride in his (or her) work.

Individual, trainee, or student, doesn’t care enough, and is too impatient to learn how to do jobs correctly.

Individual, trainee, or student, doesn’t ask questions. No need to. Has attitude issues. Thinks they know it all. Can’t tell or show them anything.
 
  #15  
Old 10-02-10, 12:26 PM
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Ok, thanks,

I took it back to mechanic a second time. He switched to ceramic pads. There was a rebate with the other pads so maybe those were lower quality ones. I notice the ceramic ones are also thicker than the others. Brake function is very good and I am not hearing any more noise. He says he checked the rotors and that they didn't need replacing.

I alternate between two mechanics. So I'll get the other mechanic to look at the rotor
 
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