96 sunfire wont start but sputters

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  #1  
Old 11-23-10, 11:16 AM
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Smile 96 sunfire wont start but sputters

I HAVE A 96 PONTIAC SUNFIRE 2.2L I try n start the car it will sputter sometimes. I pour a lil gas in the carb n it fires right up and runs fine. I checked the hoses, replaced the fuel filter and the gas cap.

Also if i cover the air intake to the carb with my hand it will sputter every time but will not start.

It seems to be a fuel issue, can it be the fuel pump if it runs fine once it starts???

Thanks ahead of time for any help anyone can offer.

Dennis
 
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  #2  
Old 11-23-10, 11:21 AM
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C/E lamp on????

Gm goes into clear flood mode based on TPS voltage...A bad TPS will do EXACTLY what you describe, And run perfectly until you shut it down and try again.
 
  #3  
Old 11-23-10, 11:27 AM
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there is a check engine light on, with my lil hand held OBD code reader there is a p0440 code (SRY should have mentioned that up front) but i have had this for a while (a year or so) with no adverse effects to the drivability.
 
  #4  
Old 11-23-10, 12:29 PM
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Check the TPS as per below and post the results

Confirm voltage to the signal return circuit of the TPS. Back probe with a DVOM.

Since your able to get it running, voltage must be between 0.2 and 1.4 volts at idle.

Slowly move the throttle to WOT.

Watch the voltage at DVOM.

The voltage should slowly rise to slightly less than 4.8v at WOT.

If no voltage is present, rule out a wiring/circuit issue/connection issue.

Confirm a supply voltage of 5.0v.

Confirm a ground of 0.3v or less.

If supply voltage and ground are present, but there is no output voltage from the TPS, replace the TPS.

If supply voltage and ground are present, but not up to spec, repair as necessary. Note that you may be looking at a PCM issue.


(Question) It seems to be a fuel issue, can it be the fuel pump if it runs fine once it starts???


Yes

Confirm fuel pressure and volume starts below. Note that a fuel pressure gauge must be used to confirm

KOEO 40Ė47 PSI
At normal operating temperature 30-44. PSI
PSI with return fuel line briefly restricted 47 PSI
 
  #5  
Old 11-23-10, 01:00 PM
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Thanks I will try it this week end!!

I am assuming the car needs to be running to check this voltage, correct??

I am also assuming this is checking from the sensor signal wire to ground, correct??

Thanks again for your help
 
  #6  
Old 11-23-10, 02:00 PM
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Pontaic_Guy,

(Quote) Thanks again for your help

Youíre welcome

Quote) I am assuming the car needs to be running to check this voltage, correct??

(Quote) I am also assuming this is checking from the sensor signal wire to ground, correct??

There are no assumptions here. My response was clear and to the point. I donít want you to make any assumptions. Take all the time necessary to read my response. Read it 50 times if necessary. If you still have questions let us know. Weíre here to help you. Weíre proís here. Proís never assume.
 
  #7  
Old 11-23-10, 02:59 PM
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Don't bite his head off, Devil Dog. :NO NO NO:
 
  #8  
Old 11-23-10, 03:55 PM
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ok Thanks
I understand the car needs to be running.

Is the check for voltage to ground or across the sensor (voltage drop)???

Thanks
 
  #9  
Old 11-25-10, 11:54 AM
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If I recall correctly, P0440 is "fuel purge system, slow leak". May be related to a bad purge valve or a leaky line. Not sure that P0440 is related to your spudder problem, sounds more like a fuel pump in the tank. +1 on check fuel pressure.
 
  #10  
Old 11-26-10, 10:25 AM
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PONTIAC_GUY,

This is just a basic overview of what the setting of PO440 means. For the sake of understanding Iím purposely keeping it simple.

PO440 will set when any part of the evaporative emission control system is not functioning correctly. These parts include (but there are more parts).

Gas cap
Fuel lines
Carbon canister
Purge valve.
Additional hoses.


The evaporative emission control system prevents fuel vapors from escaping. The fuel vapors (via a system of hoses) are sent to a charcoal canister where they are stored. Once the engine is running a purge control valve opens allowing engine intake vacuum to siphon the fuel vapors into the engine.

Rule out

A clogged or non functioning charcoal canister
An uninstalled or defective gas cap
Leaking hoses
Defective purge solenoid


A few solutions to try

Use a smoke machine to detect leaks

Install a new gas cap. Clear the PO440 code. Drive the car. Note if PO440 sets again.

Give a good close visual inspection of all EVAP hoses and hose connections. Replace any hoses that look worn, cracked, spilt or cut. Do the same for the hoses that connect to the purge solenoid and charcoal canister

Confirm an operational purge valve

Confirm an operational FTP sensor. (Fuel Tank Pressure) sensor.
 
  #11  
Old 11-26-10, 08:24 PM
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P0440 code

What does that mean?

This indicates that a part of the EVAP control system is no longer fuctioning correctly. The EVAP system consists of many parts, including (but not limited to) the gas cap, fuel lines, carbon canister, purge valve, and other hoses. The (EVAP) emission control system prevents the escape of fuel vapors from a vehicle's fuel system. Fuel vapors are routed by hoses to a charcoal canister for storage. Later, when the engine is running a purge control valve opens allowing intake vacuum to siphon the fuel vapors into the engine.
Symptoms

You likely won't notice any drivability problems.

Causes

A code P0440 could mean one or more of the following has happened:

* The gas cap is not installed or working properly
* The purge solenoid has failed
* The canister is plugged and not working properly

Possible Solutions

With a P0440 OBD-II trouble code, diagnosis can be tricky at times. Here are some things to try:

* Remove and reinstall the gas cap, clear the code, and drive for a day and see if the codes come back.
* Inspect the EVAP system for cuts/holes in tubes/hoses
* Inspect for damaged or disconnected hoses around the Evap purge solenoid
* Check and/or replace the sensor
* Check and/or replace the purge valve
* Have a professional use a smoke machine to detect leaks


but i do not believe you will have non-running car with just that.
 
  #12  
Old 11-30-10, 03:01 PM
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update

ok here is an update
I measured the voltage on the throttle position sensor.
.4 VDC with no pedal pressed
4.48 VDC with petal pushed all the way to the floor

It seems to be linear throughout the range of the petal.

BTW the car does NOT need to be running nor does the key need to be in the on position

I have ordered a fuel pump and will try that this weekend

I will update after that
 
  #13  
Old 11-30-10, 05:49 PM
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Post number 11 was simply copied and pasted from a web page. Itís completely useless because it doesnít address your no start problem. The fact that PO440 is set is not the reason your car isnít starting. Post number 10 starts to address the issue but for some reason the poster didnít follow through with it to its completion. Itís possible that he or she could have been planning on following up with you at a later time. Right now and before I begin build on post number 10 can you tell me with a degree of certainty, if your are sure or unsure, that spark and fuel is reaching all the cylinders?
 
  #14  
Old 12-01-10, 03:41 AM
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Diane 1, welcome to the forums! Glad you grabbed two tigers by the tail at one time. Tune back in, please. I am looking forward to this.
 
  #15  
Old 12-03-10, 07:16 AM
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Smile

Hello Diane
At this point i have not checked spark or fuel supply to the cylinders. if i pour a lil gas into the throttle body the car will start and run fine so i am ASSUMING that there is spark and fuel to the cylinders once it starts.

I now have dropped the fuel tank and i am in the process of replacing the fuel pump.

I will update after i reinstall the new fuel pump.
 
  #16  
Old 12-03-10, 07:21 AM
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Smile

As for the P0440 code it has been on for a year now. i have replaced the gas cap, the fuel filter and inspected the hoses and still it continues.

When, IF, I get the car running a will revisit the p0440 issue but thanks all for the tips on that

Dennis
 
  #17  
Old 12-03-10, 01:53 PM
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Dennis,

With all due respect to you and your skills you havenít addressed the basics.

Spark Delivery
Injectors Firing
Fuel Delivery
Compression
Back Pressure

Why are you changing the fuel pump?
What tests have done on it to confirm failure and replacement?

You made several references to the carb in your car. Dennis your car is fuel injected. Before you go changing the fuel pump for nothing hook up fuel pressure and see if the psi stats match those below.

KOEO 40-47 psi
At idle 30-44 psi
Return briefly restricted 47 psi
 
  #18  
Old 12-03-10, 06:25 PM
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Diane
the car is naturally aspirated not fuel injected, if that means no carb then my bad

I have NO skills that why i am asking for help. If I was a mechanic i wouldn't need someone to help me figure it out. I am an electrical engineer by trade not a mechanic

i did not have a gas pressure gauge.

the car would start if i dumped in some gas thru the throttle body. to me that means i have spark and the gas is flowing once it started. am i wrong in that reasoning?

i bought a fuel pump kit to rebuild the fuel pump assembly. it cost $21 shipped compared to $150 for the complete assembly, so i figured why not try it

anyway i have changed out the fuel pump and it fired right up.

thanks to all who helped this non mechanic no skilled mechanic wanna-be

 
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