03 Accord front rotors warped after 20k miles


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Old 02-20-11, 10:40 AM
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Question 03 Accord front rotors warped after 20k miles

I own an 03 Honda Accord LX, 4 cyl, MT with 79k miles. I had my front brake rotors and pads replaced about 20k miles ago. The (non-Honda) shop represented that these were genuine Honda parts and carried a lifetime warranty. I felt brake pulsation recently and took it back to the shop. They said the pads look brand new but the rotors are warped. I asked them about the lifetime warranty. They told me that the pads have a lifetime warranty but the rotors have a 12k or 1 year warranty. I am quite upset. Is it common for rotors to warp after 20k miles? What could have caused it? Has anyone run into this situation before? Does anyone know if a Honda dealership will directly honor the Honda rotor warranty?

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Old 02-20-11, 03:26 PM
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Old 02-20-11, 05:04 PM
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also, thank you for crediting me for the link to the article, granny
 
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Old 02-20-11, 05:09 PM
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anu, i have BAD experience with Honda rotors. something in the metal they are made out of. now, considering that I have tendency to believe the guy who wrote great article on the so called warped rotors, and from now on will simply clean them, instead of turning - here's my suggestion for you.
of course, do your best to get at least some money back out of that shop. *******s.

of course, they were not broken in, but anyhow.

toss those rotors and buy set of slotted or diamond slotted rotors. not cross-drilled! slotted. install them yourself, it is seriously easy to do. BREAK THEM IN.

BE HAPPY.
 
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Old 02-21-11, 11:53 AM
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Brake pedal pulsation....Here is something that happened to me with a 1993 400E Mercedes. At about 60K miles I wore the front pads out. OK, I replaced the pads reusing the same front rotors as is. They had sufficient thickness remaining. I bedded the pads properly. After some time I began getting the pedal pulsation but without the steering wheel jiggle that usually accompanies it when it is uneven distribution of pad material on the rotor.

I removed one rotor and lo and behold, the magnetic pickup for the speed sensor looked like a chia pet. This resulted in the ABS brain thinking the wheels were not turning at the same speed. The brake pedal pulsated due to the ABS system activating when it should not.

Just a possibility....
 
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Old 02-21-11, 01:23 PM
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Get new rotors and use a torque wrench to tighten the lug nuts.
 
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Old 02-25-11, 03:20 PM
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03 Accord front rotors warped after 20k miles

Thanks to all who replied. When I called around (both dealers and non-dealers), I discovered that everybody is offering a 1 year, 12k miles warranty on rotors, some are offering a similar warranty on pads and others a lifetime warranty on pads. So I can't get anything back from the shop who last replaced them. I did tell them they will not be the ones replacing them.

I am considering replacing them myself. Who manufactures slotted rotors? Can I get them from local stores such as Auto Zone, Pep Boys or Thuls?

I do remember reading previously that over-tightening the lug nuts can also warp rotors. When I get wheels rotated, I tell them to torque the lug nuts to specs, but I have a feeling that they don't.

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Old 02-25-11, 07:11 PM
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gosh, dude, sorry i gave mine away, my old ones where still in the original boxes i got them in, with site name on them. i paid something like $75 each for slotted, some outfit in new york, but ordered online. performance something... my CR-V put something like 50 000 miles on them, and was very rough driver then..
you can order them in any parts store. autozone has decent parts, napa has very good products. they also do price match for online prices, yes they do. carquest is very good quality product. get diamond slotted if you can afford them. they also have now rotors that have hard coating pulverized on... pricy though.

ABSOLUTELY DO BREAK IN AFTER INSTALLED. you will need a large C-clamp, basic 2 sockets, socket wrench, CAN OF BRAKE CALIPER GREASE, as you MUST lubricate all caliper guides and brake pads contact points on caliper. MUST. not an option. takes me 20 minutes per side to do them, but i have done many.. it's about 20-30 min rookie job.

NO MATTER WHAT YOU DECIDE, DO NOT ORDER FROM JCWHITNEY!!!!!
 
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Old 02-26-11, 03:53 AM
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This is the place where I got my last set of front rotors for my Porsche which is used on the track. It is in NY and has good prices/service.

TopBrakes.com - Your source for performance brake rotors, pads, brake fluids, and brake hoses
 
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Old 02-27-11, 07:24 AM
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Thank you urkbyk and LawrenceC. The topbrakes.com site does have a good selection of rotors and UPS ground shipping is free.

I was reading up on rotor replacement in the repair manuals. They suggest measuring disk runout and also to use a filtering mask as dust can be dangerous. Further, they are saying if disk retaining screws are stuck, then use an impact screwdriver to loosen them. In addition, they recommend using two 8 mm bolts to force the disc off the hub. These helper holes seem to be present in the original rotors but are absent in the rotors I've seen online. Any comments here? urkbyk, what is the purpose of the large C clamp?
 
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Old 02-27-11, 09:52 AM
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oh, the 8mm screws...

yes, they will screw YOU well.
1. you should have 2 Phillips head recessed screws on every Honda rotor. IF YOU ARE LUCKY you can undo them with VERY WELL FITTING screwdriver. most likely, you will strip the heads. get yourself a suitable size drill bit, and drill those heads off, WITHOUT DRILLING INTO THE ROTOR. otherwise, you will be not able to remove rotors.
2. they advise you to insert suitable bolts into the above mentioned screws holes "to press the rotor off the hub by screwing bolt in". daah, you will be working with about 1.8 length of thread, as that's about how much 8mm thread pitch allows in the rotor thickness. YOU WILL STRIP THOSE THREADS RIGHT AWAY. don't waste time.
3. if you got retaining screws out, and rotors removes from hand, amen. unfortunately, Honda rotors have tendency to rust to the hub, and rust BADLY. like cement. so, you buy yourself a hefty mallet and whack that rotor at 9 and 3, alternating, a few times. WHACK, not peck. good swing and such. kicking helps, if you have strong boot on, with the heel. if this does not help, i go for plan B - 4 inches 2x2 against the rotor and sledge hammer whack on 2x2. THAT does the job. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BEND ROTOR. i had to do it on almost all Hondas we owned.
4. when you install new rotor, where it mates inside with hub, you clean all the rust off the hub, ALL, or you will warp the rotor with lug nuts on uneven surface, and apply THICK layer of antisieze compound. NOT THICK GREASE, antisieze. not half an inch, of course, just liberal layer. or it will rust to the hub again.

there is am impact hand screwdriver that you can try on those flat head screws. personally, I HAD ALL OF THEM REMOVED AND DRIVEN THEREAFTER, with no problems. they do not do much, and lug nuts hold everything in place fine. if you just must have them there, go to any hardware store, size them up, and replace with good stainless steel ones. original ones are cheap soft metal that rusts and strips very easy.

why would you measure something you are going to toss anyway?

yeah, smart folks online. like i said - ditch those screws...

yes, put the dust mask on. will make you feel better. never did myself. it's precaution from old asbestos brake pads times... but you may want to get yourself a pair of good strong oil resistant exam gloves, yes. it's a dirty job, buddy, you'll get your hands tarred in a heartbeat.

btw, yours might have those funny looking springs, spreading brake pads apart. make sure you do not lose them AND HAVE THEM INSTALLED BACK. nothing bad will happen if you won't, but they do have tendency to prevent brake pads bite on rotors after brake pedal was released. they tend to spring out of hand and pads easy and fly out into space.
 
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Old 02-27-11, 01:54 PM
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Thanks for the practical advice. My best bet is to try removing the rotors first. I'll only order the new rotors if I've been successful in removing the current rotors.
 
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Old 02-27-11, 03:08 PM
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if you are not well equipped with wrenches. go to walmart and buy universal black and Decker ratchet with basically all head sizes you will need for hondas. 27 bucks. 17 on ebay plus shipping.
Black & Decker RRW100 Ratcheting ReadyWrench

this will basically have you covered on socket needs.
 
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Old 03-08-11, 08:34 PM
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Ok, I spent a lot of time today on this. I have a cordless drill/driver which I attempted to use first. It loosened one screw. The other 3 would not budge. I could tell that previously mechanics had used some brute force to get them off. I tried repeated applications of PB Blaster. I bought a manual impact wrench to try. I'm not sure if I'm using it right but the screws didn't budge. Then I tried drilling one and used a screw extractor bit at the end of a drill. The drill did spin but the screw extractor did not, no matter how much I tightened the chuck. To make a long story short, except for one screw, the other 3 are still in place.
 
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Old 03-11-11, 01:32 PM
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If these are the screws that hold the rotor on. Drill them out and forget them. They are only used to hold the rotor on as the car goes down the assembly. This way the rotor won't fall off on a workers foot.
 
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Old 03-12-11, 07:57 PM
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I finally got the screws off with an impact screwdriver and a screw extractor. I went through the dress rehearsal of removing the caliper assembly. I realized that I don't have to hang the assembly with a wire, I can just lay it on the suspension lower arm. I was able to remove the rotor on the one wheel. I didn't try the other wheel yet, but I don't expect any more difficulties. I will now go ahead and order the rotors online. Two web sites were mentioned below - carquest and topbrakes.
 
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Old 03-12-11, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by boredatwork
If these are the screws that hold the rotor on. Drill them out and forget them. They are only used to hold the rotor on as the car goes down the assembly. This way the rotor won't fall off on a workers foot.
just like i said. nothing more than nuisance. now you have TWO folks telling you - drill them out, or remove and do not reinstall. NOTHING WRONG WILL HAPPEN. of course, i had access to titanium screws same size/shape, so i had THEM installed, but who in the world will sell them to you otherwise?

anup, i think you seriously over - estimate complexity of this job. it's as simple as undoing few bolts. you have to be meticulous and make sure everything is reinstalled back and retightened properly, but it's very simple job really.
but i am glad you took some bravery to do it. slowly but steadily, this may turn you into one of us, hard core DIY tree shade mechanics. oh and soooooo much $$$ will you save then!
 
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Old 03-17-11, 07:59 PM
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Conceptually the job sounds simple, but I've run into many situations that in concept something sounds simple till you actually get to do it. That is the reason why I was interested in making sure that I could disassemble the necessary parts before I undertake the project. Fortunately, with your advice and encouragement, I can.

I ran into two brake dealers in NY. One topbrakes.com recommended below. They appear to be fine, except they don't have a phone number listed. There's another called raceshopper.com, who encourage people to call in their order, and thereby you can talk to a real person. hopefully i should get the parts within a week and be on my way.
 
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Old 03-18-11, 01:42 PM
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raceshopper, yes! ta-da! yep, that's them. I paid i think around $70 or so for slotted ones for my CR-V. they were great. guy told me they cut them every time order is placed and slotted are the best. i questioned it, and he explained why.
I'd say, nowadays, you can also go for diamond slotted, but they will prolly cost you more. do not do drilled ones.
i am very glad you have cautious but persistent approach to this. i hope you'll get good taste to FIY jobs. thereafter, $14 repair manual, good set of tools - hey, sky is the limit. but cha-ching factor is amazing, if you call around and find out how much you saved. plus, it bonds you with your car. also, gives you apportunity to check on it on a regular basis. good stuff.
 
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Old 03-20-11, 02:28 PM
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I decided to all the way and ordered diamond slotted rotors (not drilled). They should come in this coming week. By the way, you mentioned the use of caliper grease. Where should this grease be applied? What kind of disassembly will it require?
 
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Old 03-20-11, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by anupm12
I decided to all the way and ordered diamond slotted rotors (not drilled). They should come in this coming week. By the way, you mentioned the use of caliper grease. Where should this grease be applied? What kind of disassembly will it require?

good. installation of course followed by break in procedure, you know that.

caliper grease. you will have several lubrication points:




this is Nissan brakes, but yours will be very similar. pin guides must be pulled out of dust boots with slight effort. i usually buy a large can of caliper grease, lasts about 2 years, as i do maintenance on four cars, so it goes fast.
 
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Old 03-20-11, 06:57 PM
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I read your original post. That's enough for me. It's not necessary for me to read all the other posts. I see this all the time. It's very simple. You were sold cheap rotors made in the Philippines, where minimum manufacturing standards don't exist. To add insult to injury, an air impact gun was used to tighten the lug nuts, and the normal criss cross pattern was not followed. When any sort of brake work is done, an air impact gun must never be used. Lug nuts must be reinstalled with a torque wrench, to 150 ft lbs using a criss cross pattern.

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Old 03-21-11, 03:35 AM
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With regard to an impact wrench, it should only be used to remove the lug nuts, never to tighten them.
 
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Old 03-21-11, 08:16 PM
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Diane, thank you for your insight. Unfortunately I have no way of knowing what goes on behind the scenes other than to hear it from posters such as you. Because of this incident I have resolved that I won't pay them to replace the rotors again, and for that matter, have them do any more work on my car. Also, because of encouragement of other members on this list, I am trying to do it myself, because now I don't know what shop to trust. I may be very slow, and each step may take time, but I'm determined to do it myself. Again, thanks for the info.

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Old 03-22-11, 02:39 PM
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You’re very welcome. I’m glad I was able to help. I’ve been in the bisiness of auto repair for 59 years. When it comes to anything that has to do with brakes the link below is all you need to know.

Raybestos Brakes - Home

Kind Regards
Diane
 
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Old 03-22-11, 03:43 PM
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Ackk lost a reply...well the gist is here...
Talk to the shop, ask them to show you what they do when installing. Check the parts they use. I've had very good work done when I ask those questions.

btw...150# is much more than both of my cars require.
 
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Old 03-22-11, 07:43 PM
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Diane, thank you for the Raybestos link. I have bookmarked it.

Gunguy, I like your suggestion concerning the questions to ask. Thank you. My owner's manual recommends a lug nut torque of 80 ft-lbs. This is the max I can put on with hand tools - I measured it once. On more than one occasion I've gone back to the shop to ask them to retorque the lug nuts to specs. Everybody on this list is correct - unless you specifically ask for it, they'll use an impact wrench and end up overtightening it.

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Old 03-23-11, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by anupm12
Everybody on this list is correct - unless you specifically ask for it, they'll use an impact wrench and end up overtightening it.
I wouldn't generalize quite so much; there are plenty of garages that do things by the book.
 
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Old 03-23-11, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by the_tow_guy
I wouldn't generalize quite so much; there are plenty of garages that do things by the book.
ditto. even mexican place here uses impact wrench, then hand torques to spec. y'all know, there are impact wrenches and impact wrenches, right?
 
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Old 04-03-11, 10:38 AM
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It has been very cold here in the northeast, so I waited till today. I just mounted the new rotor on the first wheel. I noticed that that the caliper wouldn't slip back on. The pads had changed position so I moved them by hand for enough clearance. I bolted the caliper back. Now I'm noticing that the wheel is hard to turn by hand, as if the pads are snug against the rotor. Is this normal? Is it the fact that the new rotor has more thickness so this is to be expected? I'm just concerned that if something is not right, the pads might wear out quickly. I'm now planning to do the other wheel and see what happens. When I start driving will the brake fluid pressure readjust and the pads will resume their non-binding position?
 
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Old 04-03-11, 10:46 AM
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If the wheel is hard to turn, I suspect the piston(s) are not pushed entirely back to their flush positions. (I don't know how many pistons a Honda has.)

Pads won't wear out abnormally fast. The first few hundredths of an inch will wear away, then everything should be back to normal.
 
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Old 04-03-11, 11:56 AM
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I just finished replacing the 2nd rotor. I did not have to move the pads by hand on this one and the caliper slipped back in. It took quite a bit of trial and error to get caliper holes lined up just right for the bolts to be inserted and tightened. Done that, and now I see this post from Lawrence. Lawrence, thanks for reassuring me that only a small amount of pad material will wear away, and I can live with that. For now I'm taking a break and will do my taxes. Before it gets dark, I will go back and put the wheels back on. I have my fingers crossed for when the rubber meets the road.
 
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Old 04-03-11, 12:08 PM
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Reason why I said that is because I frequently repad a track car that has calipers with several pistons each. I frequently experience what you have when I install new pads. After the bedding procedure, everything will return to normal.

Proper bedding is important to evenly distribute the pad material over the faces of the rotors. If the material is not evenly impregnated over the face of the rotor, you'll feel a vibration.
 
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Old 04-03-11, 12:43 PM
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Just wondering...could a bad hose or proportioning valve cause the pads to not retract enough? If it goes away, then no problem, but I wouldn't think it should be very long.
 
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Old 04-03-11, 01:57 PM
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On manual turning, there is more resistance on the one side (where I had to push the pads back) than the other. In any case, I put the wheels back on and went for a road test. I can hear some noise when I brake. It is not a metallic noise, could well be the pads scraping against the new rotors. I also completed the rotor break-in, where I'm supposed to go 30 - 40 mph and then brake down to 10 mph, some 6 - 8 times. Then I'm supposed to let the brakes cool for 20 - 30 minutes. I'll let them cool overnight, because I don't plan on going anywhere for the rest of the day.
 
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Old 04-03-11, 04:32 PM
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what lawrence is referring to as "bedding" is aka rotor break in procedure, just done faster. reason you need to run to 50 like crazy, slow down to 15, and then repeat it several more times is to heat up rotors to over 300 degrees, so that pad materials starts plasticizing and bonding to rotor surface. giving rotor nice even blue-ish tint.

so, ahm, you did not recess caliper piston with large c-clamp? as most likely new rotor is slightly thicker than the old one and needs more clearance for it inside caliper. well, it's done and over. large c-clamps are $6 walmart. it's a must for any brake job.

under no music and little to no road noise, you do hear some friction noise coming from pads against rotor. my experience is some pads do it more, some do none. really, and it's my theory, i feel the soofter the pads, the less noise you have. but more dirt all over the wheels.

well, welcome into the tree shade mechanics ranks, buddy.
 
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Old 04-04-11, 11:22 AM
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The clamp was mentioned earlier on in this thread but the reason wasn't mentioned. In any case, after some driving yesterday, I raised up the car this morning and discovered that the drag persists. I called RaceShopper tech support a couple of times. The first guy said, even now I can push in the pistons. The second guy said, if you push them in now, the wheels will turn freely, but once you get the car back on the road and start braking, the pistons will reposition back to the same position and the brakes will start dragging again. He advised me to see a mechanic.

So, what I'm going to do is, try pushing the pistons in and see what happens. I'd much rather try it first rather than take it straight to the mechanic.
 
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Old 04-04-11, 11:50 AM
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Once I had a leaking caliper and had to replace a seal, piston, and dust shield. Brembo supplied a special grease with the seal/dust shield/new piston for application on the seals themselves. It allowed the pistons to move easily through the dust shield and seal. I do not know what kind of grease it was. You cannot use just any grease else you can cause the seals to fail.

That said there is always a slight drag on my cars. My track car uses racing pads that are very noisy and filthy and corrosive. I can hear them rubbing on the rotors when I slowly drive the car in my driveway.
 
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Old 04-04-11, 02:10 PM
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Lawrence, I don't see any leaks. I am done with moving the pistons with a C clamp. I also took it for a road test. It has gotten better. The drag is not uniform throughout the full revolution of the wheel. Makes me wonder if I have a runout issue.
 
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Old 04-04-11, 06:34 PM
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anup, take the rotor off. CLEAN ROTOR SEAT ON THE HUB. perfectly. also, make sure you have no debris in the area where rotor mates with hub on the rotor. a speck of rust can cause rotor sit crooked.
re-check pads. pads should slide into their seats nice and easy. honda has those little clips where pads sit on the bracket, make sure none of that is bent.
my 04 CR-V had special springs spreading brake pads apart. do you happen to have those?
finally, you did lubricate the guides, right? make sure, after you have everything reassembled, that caliper moves on guides back and for, with little effort, about 1/8 of an inch. if caliper does not move on guides, you will have issues. drag included.
you MUST have this resolved. or you will overheat the rotors, boil brake fluid, and look at mess to fix down the road.
 
 

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