'03 Chrysler Sebring 4-dr won't start, Batt seems ok

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  #1  
Old 07-30-13, 04:20 PM
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'03 Chrysler Sebring 4-dr won't start, Batt seems ok

Tested the jumper points (since the batt is buried under the fender), and got 12.75V with it off. Turn the key and nothing, no click. Hit the starter with a crow bar, and nothing. Jumped it from my F150 8-cyl, and tried starting then and nothing. No click when turning the key. Played with the gearshift to ensure I wasn't locked out and nothing. Where's the starter solinoid on this car? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Old 07-30-13, 06:28 PM
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it would be nice to know what size engine.
 
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Old 07-30-13, 07:33 PM
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do you know if the security light is staying on?
 
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Old 07-30-13, 07:52 PM
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Yah wouldn't it? I have no idea other than what I can see under the hood: 16 valve DOHC and it appears to 4 cyls. It took me 10 minutes find the effing-battery. Any advice?
 
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Old 07-30-13, 07:55 PM
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I see no light at all. Where is the security light? and what should it be doing?
 
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Old 07-30-13, 08:07 PM
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What the first step in getting at that battery? I can't completely rule it out until I can put my hands on it and the terminals.
 
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Old 07-30-13, 10:11 PM
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Have you tried starting it in neutral ?

In your original post you said battery seems ok.
Do your headlights work ?
Do your dome lights work ?

When I get to a car that wont start.....I sit in it and watch the dome light. I'll turn on the headlights and if the dome lights dim then I'll consider a battery issue. While watching the dome light I'll turn the key on try to start the vehicle. If the light doesn't dim or go out then your battery is preliminarily ok.

The battery is behind a removable plastic cover in the front of the drivers side front tire. You can try turning the wheels all the way to the right to access it or you'll have to remove the drivers tire.
 
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Old 07-31-13, 06:20 AM
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I googled this type of issue for another forum member a few weeks ago. From my search, I didn't see any real consistant issues popping up indicating one item or another.

From my search and the info provided, I would take a guess at a fuse (seen that when searching) or relay. These will be found within your fuse box, probably under the hood (some dodge vehicles have both a box under the hood, and one just inside the driver door). Check your owners manual for which fuses are which. A test with a multi-meter or a simple fuse swap (automotive fuse kits are ~$5 and worth having anyway).
 
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Old 07-31-13, 06:28 AM
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is the 8th vin(x)?2.4l engine then.if there is no load then there will be no voltage drop so no lights will dim.could be bad starter relay/starter motor/starter solenoid.what does your meter read in the crank position?check voltage on small wire at starter solenoid during crank which I think is brown which comes from the starter relay......should be close to battery voltage.check fuse number 8....20 amp in the power distribution center which provides power side of starter relay.this is a automatic?
 
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Old 07-31-13, 04:50 PM
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It's a 2.4L, auto-trans. I've tested the key in the 'start' position and played with the shifter: in and out of park and no crank. I tried starting in neutral and no crank. I put finger on the starter relay and had my wife turn the key and felt a click. But I stuck the positive tester in along side the brown wire where it goes into the grey plug at the solenoid and put the negative tester onto what I believed to be a good ground and got no voltage when she turned the key. I'm a little concerned the click I felt at the relay may have been that of the adjacent fuel pump relay. Regarding the starter relay: With the relay pulled I tested roughly battery voltage acrossed the two-sockets-half of the relay, but I am not sure how to test the three-post/socket(s) half of the relay...? I assumed I should have got a voltage jump when she turned the key but I didn't. This may have been due to me incorrectly testing this half of the relay sockets.
A. Is there a way to definitively test the starter relay other than what I've done?
B. Is there a way to definitively test the ignition switch other than what I've done?
C. How about the solenoid?
D. Can the solenoid be 'jumped'?

P.S. All fuses are ok but I still haven't had the ambition to pull the wheel/dust cover off to check the battery terminals. Are they still a potential problem given all of the testing I've done?
 
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Old 07-31-13, 05:26 PM
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If you're sure you have the right relay...... remove it. There are 5 pins. One is not used.
One will probably have 12v at all times.
Check all the other pins. One should become live when the key is turned.

If you don't get a pin that goes to 12v when the key is turned then the problem is before the relay. It's not at the starter end.
 
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Old 07-31-13, 06:57 PM
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pjmax correct....just wanted to add take a test light connected to battery ground....test by touching to battery positive to make sure the test light lights.....remove the starter relay in power distribution box and probe 4 terminals to be careful not to expand terminal with test light probe and should light on one terminal of the four which is hot at all times.now hold key in crank position and probe four terminals....two should be lit......one is the load side feed the red wire to starter relay from fuse 8 and the other hot in crank would be the power feed for the control side of the relay comming from the ignition switch yellow wire.if you have dont have a hot key off then check fuse 8.....if you dont have a hot in crank position then possible bad ignition switch.the pcm needs to see the input from the safety neutral switch before it grounds controlside of this relay which is ground side switched with a transistor inside pcm.if you have two hots then possible bad relay/starter solenoid/starter motor.run a jumper from brown wire at starter solenoid and jump to battery positive with key on and see if it starts.....this would test starter solenoid and starter motor.
 
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Old 07-31-13, 07:04 PM
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Thanks joe for the extra info..... well covered
 
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Old 07-31-13, 08:51 PM
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Honestly it's probably the battery. My '97 Stratus occasionally would act similarly. Same engine and basic setup as this car.

Try hooking up the jumper cables, letting the other vehicle just high-idle for fifteen minutes, then try starting it. I've found that poor jumper cable connections frequently will mean that it just won't pull enough amps through the cables to crank the car, but letting it essentially trickle-charge through the cables for a few minutes will put enough charge back into even a questionable battery to get one good crank out of it.
 
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Old 07-31-13, 10:13 PM
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Thanks guys. Only one hot (always) socket with relay removed. With the key in start (crank), none of the other three went live based on my (functioning) test lamp. And Fuse #8 still good, live one side. So possible ignition switch? There is another 40A component in fuse cavity #1 in the Distribution Box labeled "Iginition Switch". What is its function? What would you check next and how? Autojoe, you said one thing that I couldn't understand: "the pcm needs to see the input from the safety neutral switch before it grounds controlside of this relay which is ground side switched with a transistor inside pcm." If I'm following you: the contol side of the relay is 'activated' by completing a ground link versus a power link. I also believe I have tested the safety neutral switch by turning the key to 'start' and moving the gearshift in and out of park. (there is no crank in neutral either, is that an issue?). Also, with the key in the 'on' position and the relay removed, could I jump the two load side sockets with a specially configured 40A fuse? would this bring any value? I really appreciate your help.
 
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Old 08-01-13, 06:15 AM
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yes that is correct.the pcm controls relay by grounding control side of relay when it knows it is in park/neutral.power is supplied to control side of relay through the ignition switch.do this....get under steering column inside and take a test light hooked to a good ground...verify good ground by touching test light to pin 16 of the obd 2 connector that would be the bottom right pin and test light should light this is a power feed to connector....next at base of column you will see a connector with the wires that come from the ignition switch......look for a yellow wire and then push test light point in the yellow wire at connector and turn ignition switch to crank position and see if test light lights.....if it dont then touch on the red wire next to it and see if that wire lights....this is the power feed.if this red wire has power then you can verify bad ignition switch by hooking test light now to battery positive....you can use pin 16 of the obd2 connector for this just use a small jumper and dont expand the terminal test by touching a bracket underneath column and make sure test light lights......now take test light and with key in on position not crank position touch yellow wire with test light....car should start......what you are doing is supplying B+ to the control side of the relay and the pcm is grounding the other side of the control side of the relay so you know the safety neutral switch is good or the pcm would not be grounding and there would be no starting when you do this.....and with power on red wire at base of column you know you have a bad ignition switch.I hope all this makes sense.any questions just ask.
 
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Old 08-01-13, 12:47 PM
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Bingo! Thanks Autojoe, everything you said went the way you said it. After verifying a good ground, the yellow wasn't working with the key on and red was; I grabbed a thin finishing nail with the allegator clip end of my test lamp, gently pushed that into Pin #16, and poke the lead into the (former test hole) in the yellow; and when that car fired up, it scared the hellout of me! Thanks. What would be the next step? Is the new part going to require a new key? How tough is this part to swap out with a new one? Again, I can't thank you enough for staying with me (you too PJmax and the rest).
 
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Old 08-01-13, 04:37 PM
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yellow wire should not light with grounded test light unless in the crank position....not on position.i assume you meant the crank position.this would mean there is no voltage through the ignition switch on the control side of the relay......then you took a test light hooked to battery positive at pin 16 of dlc and provided the voltage that the ignition switch provides and it started.is this correct?the second test key only has to be in on position.let me know
 
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Old 08-02-13, 01:36 PM
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That's correct: the yellow didn't light with the key in the start/crank position. And did start (via testlamp/#16-pin) in the 'on' position. I ended up going to Radio Shack and getting small allegator clips, a momentary push switch and some 18-guage wire. I clipped the rig into the #16 pin, thru the switch (mounted under the steering column) and to the yellow wire (removed some insulation). For the time being, my daughter just turns the key to the 'on' postion and pushes the switch to fire it up. Although I view as a temp work-around until I can figure out how to fix it right, she loves it because it reminds her of her friend's Jag or Cadilac. (I'm sure the novelty will wear off soon). How tough is the ignition switch to fix?
 
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Old 08-03-13, 05:51 AM
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never replaced one one this car.....my alldata says flat rate .5 hour.can send you info if you send me your email in private message.i seen other places where have to remove instrument cluster hood/center bezel/knee bolster and column covers.I would first look and see if the column covers could be removed without removing any body panels.I can look at my alldata and email it to you.let me know.maybe someone on here has changed one.
 
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