Oil burst out of my little 3 ton hydraulic car jack


  #1  
Old 11-08-14, 02:15 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
Oil burst out of my little 3 ton hydraulic car jack

I never used one of these before as I've always used the scissor jack. After finishing my project and lowered the car back with my 3 ton double ram jack (i think that's what it's called) by twisting the little nob to release the air/pressure(?) the jack was still up. When I pryed out from under the car, i tried to push the beam back down with my hand but then all of a sudden oil burst out from the nob (screw). After that, when I tried to use it again, the jack would not elevate anymore. It seemed to have lost pressure or something due to the loss of oil.

I opened the back hole up and put some oil back in to the top, but after sealing it up and trying to elevate, the jack still didn't work...felt like there was no pressure.

Any ideas what happened here?
 
  #2  
Old 11-08-14, 02:35 AM
W
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 630
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Sounds like you bought a defective jack .

Or you did not understand the instruction about turning the bleed screw to allow the jack to go down . Then it sounds like you unscrewed the bleed screw too far .

If the jack is new , see if you can return it .

God bless
Wyr

PS Did you use hydraulic jack oil to try to replenish the fluid ?
 
  #3  
Old 11-08-14, 04:30 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 45,659
Received 835 Upvotes on 732 Posts
Unless you removed [or almost removed] the bleed screw - the oil shouldn't have come out!

As asked above - is this a new jack? If used, it's probably fixable, pics would help. What type of oil did you add?
 
  #4  
Old 11-08-14, 05:51 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
Yes, I did unscrew the bleed too far, and then when I manually pushed the beam down, the oil squirt out from the hole. After that, when pumping it, the beam wouldn't come up anymore and I could feel there was less pressure from the pump.

I took it to my nearby car shop and the guy there gave me ATF fluid to put into it. He filled it up to the hole, but after that it still didn't work (no pressure and beam did not rise).

Yes, it's a brand new jack I bought a few days ago for $40. It worked perfectly fine when I raised the car. I lowered the car by twisting the bleed a bit and heard the pressure release and the car dropped. But even though it dropped, the jack beam was still up and pressing against the car frame. I had to wiggle it really strong to pry it loose from under the car. That's when I tried to lower the beam by loosening the bleed even more and then pushing it down by hand and thats when the oil came squirting out.

How is this thing supposed to work? When I turn the bleed half turn, the pressure released and the car dropped but there are two beams...the main beam and then a smaller one inside. The main beam was still up. How do you lower the main beam back into the jack?

Here's a pic of the jack.
Name:  jack.jpg
Views: 5288
Size:  20.8 KB
 
  #5  
Old 11-08-14, 06:01 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 45,659
Received 835 Upvotes on 732 Posts
ATF should work. Are you sure it is full with no air pockets in the fluid?
I've never paid attention as to how often but I've released the jack and had to manually push the cylinders back in on occasion. Assuming the jack is like all the ones I've ever owned, the main cylinder is hydraulic but the smaller one screws in and out to help you achieve your desired height.
 
  #6  
Old 11-08-14, 06:21 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
Yes you are correct. The main cylinder is what was up and didnt go back in after turning the bleed screw. The smaller one that screws up and down is what dropped back to lower the car on to its tires. I don't know if there were no air pockets? The guy at the shop removed the little rubber cap on the back, and used a air compressor machine with a thin tube to put oil back into the jack until it reached the top of the hole where it drips out a bit to tell you its at the hole height. Then he put the rubber stopper back in.
 
  #7  
Old 11-08-14, 06:32 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 45,659
Received 835 Upvotes on 732 Posts
The one that is threaded only drops if the hydraulic cylinder drops, you probably just needed to finish pushing it down.

So it does nothing when the valve is closed and you pump the jack? You might recheck the oil level and add more if needed. You don't need to pump the oil in, just have a decent aim.
 
  #8  
Old 11-08-14, 06:42 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
thanks, that's good to know. So everything was done properly as far as refilling the oil. I'm not sure why though when I pump the jack (and the valve is tightly closed back) nothing happens. I can also feel that there is no pressure like there was when I first pumped the jack when it was working. There's a little resistance as the cylinder rises...but now i just pump and no resistance feeling hence no cylinder rises. What do you think could have gone wrong? Do hydraulics jacks have a common problem like this? Did me opening the bleed screw all the way and let the oil squirt out damage the unit in anyway? I wouldn't think it damages it...but merely just loss of oil that I would have to refill.
 
  #9  
Old 11-08-14, 06:49 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 45,659
Received 835 Upvotes on 732 Posts
It's been a long time since I tore into a bottle jack. If the o-ring was missing it would leak. Did you see any parts come out of the hole when you removed the screw? Will the jack rise if you pull on the cylinder a little while you pump it? Does the paper work that came with your jack show a schematic of all the parts?

Gotta ask - is there a reason you bought a bottle jack instead of a floor jack? You could have bought a cheap 2 ton floor jack for about the same price.
 
  #10  
Old 11-08-14, 07:15 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
as far as I know, no ring or other parts are missing.
I saw a video just now on youtube about how air could sometimes be in the jack and they said to open the screw a little, then pump like 20 times to get the air out. Then seal the screw and begin pumping. I tried that and after doing it, the cylinder moved about 2 mm upwards and that's it. I pumped 100 times and it didn't move after that. I tried again removing more air this time pumping around 50 times and no difference. I am able to pull it up with my hand (the smallest cylinder) but it drops a bit after letting go.

I did buy a scissor jack later for 10 dollars and that has worked perfectly for me to finish my job. The only reason I bought the oil jack was because the store didn't have any scissor jacks and I couldn't find any scissors jacks at the time and sort of in a hurry so I thought this would work fine.
 
  #11  
Old 11-08-14, 07:22 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
hmm also I just read somewhere that they suggested when refilling with oil, don't mix it but completely drain it out first. When the oil squirt out...it was a clear oil...not sure what kind...maybe hydraulic oil of some kind? Then when I went to the nearby shop, the guy put in ATF dexron oil (pink color) but didn't drain it first...he just top it off to the hole. Could the mixture be affecting the hydraulics? Maybe I should try and empty it all out again and use just ATF oil full?
 
  #12  
Old 11-08-14, 09:15 AM
ukrbyk's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA/ Pacific NW
Posts: 3,665
Received 62 Upvotes on 53 Posts
OP, simply return that thing for refund. ALL THE TIME spent on it is NOT worse $40 and potential hazard it can cause in the future. For few more bucks you can get decent hydraulic jack that rolls around. Why bother with this, keeping in mind that your life is at stake here?
 
  #13  
Old 11-08-14, 09:20 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 45,659
Received 835 Upvotes on 732 Posts
I normally use hydraulic fluid [same fluid my tractor uses] to top off my jacks but have used ATF once before with no issues. I've never flushed one to add fluid.
 
  #14  
Old 11-09-14, 12:42 AM
W
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 630
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Buy some hydraulic jack oil and drain out the ATF before refilling with jack oil .

Look for a different hole to use to replace fluid .

But get a floor jack , much safer .

God bless
Wyr
 
  #15  
Old 11-09-14, 01:40 AM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 16,321
Received 38 Upvotes on 30 Posts
I'll agree that the ATF was the wrong fluid and you would be best to remove it all and then flush with hydraulic JACK oil which is available from most automotive parts stores.

After flushing, refill to the bottom of the hole with the rubber plug and then completely remove the bleed-down screw. Pump the handle SLOWLY until you get a solid stream of oil out the bleed-down hole (do this in a large pan to catch the oil and prevent a huge mess) and then replace the bleed-down screw. Pump up the jack, it should rise but it might be jerky. Pump it all the way and continue to pump until it either gets extremely hard to pump or simply cannot pump any more. Release the bleed-down screw one turn and then push the ram all the way back into the cylinder. This should purge all the air from the jack. Remove the rubber plug and check the oil level, topping it off if necessary.

I would not return it since you already screwed it up with the ATF. At worst, you just learned a hard lesson.
 
  #16  
Old 11-09-14, 04:21 PM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
thanks everyone for the helpful responses.

Yes, Furd. That's the kind of instructions I was looking for. I'll definitely have to try that out sometime. Yes, it's all about learning and gaining experience. It was my first time ever using a double ram bottle jack. I'm surprised that using ATF as a replacement fluid is considered "damaging" the unit. Almost everywhere I've read, people have said they've used ATF for years with no issues, although it was always recommend to just use hydraulic oil.

Can I ask, how does one completely flush out the oil in the bottle jack? Do I have to flush it out via the bleed screw hole or the little rubber plugged hole on the back side where I normally would put oil in? Do I just tilt it over or upside down and let it sit for 10 minutes until all has drained out or is there some faster way to flush it out?

I'd normally agree about simply returning it but as stated, since I've used ATF in it, that probably voids any returns. Also, the shop I got it at is about an hour drive away (it was a mom & pop type tool shop, not a giant franchise that can be found everywhere). I'm also using it only to remove the wheels on my car. I only lift the car literally 1 cm above the ground enough to remove the wheels. I always put jack stands underneath while using the scissor/bottle jack for double safety. I would prefer to just get $40 back but at this point, I guess I'll just gain some experience, see if I can get this to work one more time using the method Furd outlined.

Would something like "Motorex Hydraulic Fluid 75" be appropriate to use in my bottle jack?
 
  #17  
Old 11-10-14, 12:11 AM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 16,321
Received 38 Upvotes on 30 Posts
Item 1. I don't think you have a "double ram" jack but a single ram with a screw extension. A double ram would be a second ram inside the first that is also extended by hydraulic pressure.

Item 2. I don't know what "Motorex Hydraulic Fluid 75" might be. My experience is that unless the label on the jack (or the instruction sheet) specifies something else, the only thing you should use is hydraulic jack oil. The problem that may arise is the seals in the jack will either become very soft and misshapen or they will become very hard and leak if an improper oil is used. Admittedly, it might take several years (if at all) for the wrong fluid to cause a problem.

You flush it out any way you can to the best of your ability. Draining out all the oil that will come then adding a partial fill of the correct oil, sloshing it around, pumping it up and releasing a few times and then draining this flushing oil is generally about all you can do with a bottle jack. After this add the correct oil, pump it up and release it a few times to expel the air and then check the oil level, adding oil if necessary. Only add oil when the ram i retracted or you will overfill the jack.
 
  #18  
Old 11-10-14, 05:18 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
Thanks again Furd. I don't know exactly which Hydraulic fluid I should use. The Motorex brand says on it "Hydraulic Fluid 75" so I thought that was hydraulic fluid?

Yes, mine is a double ram bottle jack. It has 2 cylinders...sorry it wasn't clearly visible in the picture as the jack was retracted. I have a second ram inside the first ram that was lifted up by hydraulic pressure when it worked...then there's that screw on piece after. As I mentioned, when I first used it, I opened the bleed screw and the pressure went out lowering the car automatically BUT it seemed that only the first ram was retracted. The 2nd ram (the larger one) was still up. That's why I had a hard time getting it out from underneath the car because even though the car was on it's tires the ram was still fully up and pressed against the under frame of the car. I had to wiggle it out hard to pry it loose. I was wondering why the ram just didn't go down completely and retract? That's why I was trying to figure out how to retract the ram. I unscrewed the bleed even more and then pushed the ram down with my hand and that's when all this oil came squirting out. The ram did go back in but then when I tried to use it again, there was no pressure and the ram was not coming up anymore (either ram).

So I' don't know if that's actually normal of these kinds of rams or was that not normal? Are double ram bottle jacks supposed to fully retract back inside when you open the bleed screw a little? Do you have to retract it by hand after removing it from under the car? Did unscrewing the bleed TOO FAR thus allowing all the oil to squirt out damage the jack or maybe burst some sort of seal in the bleed? I find it hard to believe that the jack is damaged based on what I did. I think anyone could have made the same mistake...if they didn't use one before.

So either the bottle jack itself is defective from the get go (was it supposed to fully retract on its own after unscrewing the bleed? It only retracted enough for the car to sit on its tires but the ram was still up), or it's the fluid that is not working (although as stated, many people have claimed that ATF fluid works fine in hydraulic jacks and don't really think that could be the issue). It does sound like there is something causing a lack of pressure to build up. I don't hear any air escaping when I pumped it 50 times....nor did I find any leaks while pumping 50 times.....

If someone could tell me how a double ram bottle jack is supposed to retract upon lowering the vehicle, then I could probably figure out if it was defective or if I did everything right except open the bleed screw too much.
 
  #19  
Old 11-10-14, 05:23 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 45,659
Received 835 Upvotes on 732 Posts
I can't say how normal it is for the jack to not completely collapse on it's own but I've often pushed the ram down manually and not thought twice about it. Backing the valve screw out far enough for it to leak fluid is not normal. Generally you have to work at unscrewing it that far. It's possible the o-ring got dislodged in the process. Have you looked at a schematic of the jack? If one didn't come with your jack paperwork, look online as they are all more/less the same.

I doubt mixing in the ATF hurt anything.
 
  #20  
Old 11-10-14, 05:26 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
yes, no diagram came with it. Hmm....that sounds like a likely cause. If there was some sort of seal or o ring ...maybe it got dislodged or lost somewhere? I didn't remove the bleed screw completely but I do remember unscrewing it a lot to the point I could actually see the ridges in the screw. But I quickly wound it back up after the oil came squirting out when i pushed the ram down.
 
  #21  
Old 11-10-14, 05:29 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
hey! I think i found something. Here's a diagram that indicates there is a small ball. Well the other night when i was looking around where the oil squirted out, I did find a small metallic ball. I saved it with me. Does this ball belong to the double ram jack? Maybe I need to put this ball back in?
http://www.hyjacks.com/ckvalve.jpg
 
  #22  
Old 11-10-14, 05:31 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 45,659
Received 835 Upvotes on 732 Posts
Yes, that ball is part of the check valve! It needs to be in place. If I remember correctly you just open it up, drop it in and replace the screw. Make sure the steel ball is clean first.
 
  #23  
Old 11-10-14, 05:32 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
oh great news then. I'll give it a try right now. Be right back!
 
  #24  
Old 11-10-14, 05:45 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
aha! that was it! It's working perfectly now!Name:  bottle jack fixedc.jpg
Views: 4222
Size:  2.3 KB

a little investigative work with your help and we've fixed it yay!

(sorry not sure why I couldn't upload the pic here, it said it exceeded
forum quota by 12.5 kb but i kept making the pic smaller and smaller
and still exceeded).
 
  #25  
Old 11-10-14, 05:50 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 45,659
Received 835 Upvotes on 732 Posts
Glad you got it working! For some of us posting pics is a daunting task, I've only been successful once
 
  #26  
Old 11-10-14, 05:54 AM
G
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 270
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
thanks to you and your mentioning of the diagram (and furd) once I saw that ball in the diagram I remembered I found a metallic ball and kept it. I was actually looking for a ring seal or some plastic circular rubber thingy but didn't find it on the ground outside where i was working. I did find this shiny metal ball and thought it looked cool so i just took it and kept it not realizing that was actually the seal lol. Now I know metallic balls are seals too.
 
  #27  
Old 11-11-14, 03:48 PM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 16,321
Received 38 Upvotes on 30 Posts
It is common for a bottle jack ram to not retract all the way by itself. Look at a floor jack and you will see it has two big springs that pull the ram back when the release valve is opened.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description: