Noise from front wheel location

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  #1  
Old 12-17-16, 10:58 AM
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Noise from front wheel location

I noticed a rubbing or scraping like noise from the front passenger side (2005 Kia Optima) while driving. When getting ready to examine/inspect, I noticed the front passenger side wheel/tire seems to be positioned significantly closer to the front of the car as compared to the opposite wheel/tire on the driver side. What I mean is the front passenger wheel/tire is not centered within the fender well as like the wheel/tire on the front driver side. The front of the tire is like at least an inch closer to the front of the fender well as compared to the driver side. So that to seems to be like something must be definitely wrong. Never noticed this before, yet I was never particularly paying much attention to whether it was centered before. But the reason I noticed now was just wondering initially if something maybe got stuck between that wheel/tire and the fender maybe, (a piece of plastic or some kind of chunk of foreign road debris) to cause that rub/scraping noise. Why would that whee/tire be positioned like I described. I took a picture of it, first photo below, as compared to the opposite side, second photo below. Any comments/advice appreciated.



 
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  #2  
Old 12-17-16, 11:03 AM
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Did you buy the car new? [know it's complete history]
First thing I'd do would be to jack it up and rotate/shake that wheel and look for play.
 
  #3  
Old 12-17-16, 11:30 AM
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No didnt buy the car new but been driving it for several years now with no such issue. Yeah I jacked it up, took the tire/rim off, and tried to shake the wheel and the whole business but everything feels looks solid. I did noticed with the tire off and looking at the brake pad that it was tight on the rotor, although I didn't have the brake applied or set. Could that be kind of stuck, the caliper or whatever? Seems like I'd expect to see at least a little daylight between the pad and the rotor without the brake applied at all... any further comments appreciated...
 
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Old 12-17-16, 12:05 PM
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You won't see daylight between the pad and rotor, but you should be able to spin the rotor with the brake off, although there will usually be a little drag even then.

Have you had any tire wear issues that might indicate a bent frame or bad alignment? You might want to have someone drive the car while you follow behind and see if it tracks nice and straight and even, and the rear wheels line up with the front...
 
  #5  
Old 12-17-16, 01:29 PM
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That is a noticable difference between side, any accidents?

noise could be pad to rotor, or even the brake shield to rotor.
 
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Old 12-17-16, 01:45 PM
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iI can see the difference don't know how much you know about front ends but I would get car down to a front end shop. Looks dangerous to me. Was a front end mechanic for many years.
 
  #7  
Old 12-17-16, 08:53 PM
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You won't see daylight between the pad and rotor, but you should be able to spin the rotor with the brake off, although there will usually be a little drag even then.
I'll at least try spinning the rotor with the brake off; probably will be a little drag as per your mention, I assume.

Have you had any tire wear issues that might indicate a bent frame or bad alignment?
Actually no, no such indications. Tires seem to be wearing evenly/normally. And it drives without drifting or pulling, nice and straight on a straight road.

You might want to have someone drive the car while you follow behind and see if it tracks nice and straight and even, and the rear wheels line up with the front...
Okay can do that. Although rather reluctant to be driving the car much right now, with not knowing what the heck that noise is.
 
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Old 12-17-16, 09:10 PM
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That is a noticable difference between side, any accidents?
We got the car used, bought it about three years ago now. It's been driving fine with no front end or suspension issues type issues anyway. No accidents of which I'm aware.

noise could be pad to rotor, or even the brake shield to rotor.
The pad isn't particularly worn down, still plenty of pad on it; but even so, still might be causing the noise? And at first look at the rotor I don't even see any brake shield. I was hoping maybe I'd see a brake shield too, that was bent or maybe had a little rock wedged in it or something. But no, no brake shield I see.

Edit: Brake shield can also be called "backing plate", right? or no...?
 

Last edited by sgull; 12-17-16 at 09:32 PM.
  #9  
Old 12-17-16, 09:13 PM
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iI can see the difference don't know how much you know about front ends but I would get car down to a front end shop. Looks dangerous to me. Was a front end mechanic for many years.

yep there's a definite difference. I know a little about front ends but no expert. yeah I'll take it to the dang auto repair $hop.
 
  #10  
Old 12-18-16, 03:51 AM
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Disc brakes are different than drums, the wheel won't spin as easily but it should turn with no big resistance. As long as the wheel turns without much noise the pads should be fine. BUT the brakes have nothing to do with the wheel/hub being off centered!

When you had it jacked up did you try moving the wheel up/down, in/out and sideways with the tire still on? I suspect there is movement you haven't discovered yet which is causing the noise.

Unless you hit a big chuck hole or something I'd suspect a severely worn or broken part. How does it drive?
 
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Old 12-18-16, 05:46 AM
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I have been retired for many years so don't remember your car set up but for the wheel to be that gar back there has to be either a very worn out part or something bent. When that side of car is jacked up a worn out part will have a lot of movement. Do not jack car from under control arm.
 
  #12  
Old 12-18-16, 06:59 AM
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1. Control arm bushing is shot, dragging entire hub back(?)
2. Car was in accident and either frame is shifted and alignment was compensated to make it drive OK or, body is damaged and shifted.
I lean towards control arm as it would have been pretty obvious on alignment compensation for that much offset. they would have to re-position strut attachments, re-drill them and relocate strut bolts.
Body shop can check symmetricity of the body/frame itself. Honestly, you could sort of DIY too, with lonh tape measure. If it's square. Otherwise, go straight for control arm.

Take wheel off and look at the tire well walls, where wheel is closer to the body. Take good flash light. Any signs of scraping? All the way into the upper tire edge?
 
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Old 12-18-16, 07:36 AM
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the brakes have nothing to do with the wheel/hub being off centered!
Yes I realize that. Two separate issues but the way I titled the post and then my description makes it seem I think otherwise. I should at least attempt changing the title of the post to something more clear.

When you had it jacked up did you try moving the wheel up/down, in/out and sideways with the tire still on? I suspect there is movement you haven't discovered yet which is causing the noise.
When I had it jacked up I didn't really try moving the wheel as in the quote above with the tire on. I still can though, and will. It did seem solid with no obvious looseness/movement though but I can double check. With the tire off I did try grasping the hub/wheel and pushing/pulling etc to see if there was anything seeming loose but it all was solid with that "test". I'll go ahead and do as you suggest in quote above and post back.

Unless you hit a big chuck hole or something I'd suspect a severely worn or broken part. How does it drive?
Didn't hit any big chuck holes. It drives good; drives without drifting or pulling, nice and straight on a straight road.
 

Last edited by sgull; 12-18-16 at 08:12 AM.
  #14  
Old 12-18-16, 08:22 AM
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1. Control arm bushing is shot, dragging entire hub back(?)
If a shot control arm bushing can drag the entire hub back like it is, should I probably on close examination be able to see that it (that bushing) is shot , and/or be able move/shake the wheel/hub and feel much obvious looseness?

Take wheel off and look at the tire well walls, where wheel is closer to the body. Take good flash light. Any signs of scraping? All the way into the upper tire edge?
I took a pretty good look already at the wheel well area where the wheel is closer to the body, no particular obvious sign of scraping there. Didn't look all the way into the upper tire edge though, but will. Thanks
 
  #15  
Old 12-18-16, 10:04 AM
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No, control arm bushings can look like crap and bve fine and they can look fine and be crap. Control arm is the thing that controls exactly that position of your hub.
Instead of "looking", you should equip yourself with a pry bar of rather decent size and actually test control arms. I donno if you have the g'ol control arms or one of them funny ones like Nissan has. But it's a control arm issue or a major body damage somewhere.
Btw, who else drives the car? Ya know what I mean. With a displacement like this, your tire should be showing CLEAR signs of being chewed up on one side. So if it does not and car tracks straight - something is real funky with it. As in - it is adjusted to drive like this.
 
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Old 12-18-16, 10:09 AM
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OK, so you have wishbone suspension.

KIA OEM 01-06 Optima Front Suspension-Strut Bumper 5462639002 | eBay

My suspicion will be on bushing #13 in the chart. Or, something is broken or bent. Then it was hit without your knowledge.
 
  #17  
Old 12-18-16, 11:45 AM
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Thanks ukrbyk.
No clear sign of tire being chewed up on one side. It's actually a "temporary" (as needed) studded snow tire for conditions right now, but will look also closely at the regular driving tire that the snow tire replaced. Pretty sure (almost certain) it was fine but will double check.
If indeed that control arm bushing is shot as per your suggestion, I wouldn't think that would cause that unusual offset of the tire, would it? Could it?
I'll post back once I can investigate/inspect further. Right now we're being inundated with cold rain and my "garage" is an uncovered driveway. fun stuff...
 
  #18  
Old 12-18-16, 01:02 PM
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1. You still didn't answer - did someone ELSE drive the car? That maybe you don't even know about?
2. Look at diagram in link I posted. #3 - bent; bushings 18 and 19 - worn out completely; in box #12, ##13/15 worn out completely; #14 bent. Those will be the culprits.
Wheel is pulled BACK, right? As if it is, I hands down vote for someone hitting curb head on what pushed wheel back. And simply keeping mum about this.
Unless the crossmember somehow got pulled back, but I do not know if you have crossmember or you are unibody. As if you are unibody, it's body damage.
 
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Old 12-18-16, 02:00 PM
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You still didn't answer - did someone ELSE drive the car? That maybe you don't even know about?
It's wife's car but we both drive it. Asked her whether she hit curb or bad chuckhole lately, answer is no and I believe her. I didn't hit anything either and would remember if I did. Nobody else drives the car.

Look at diagram in link I posted. #3 - bent; bushings 18 and 19 - worn out completely; in box #12, ##13/15 worn out completely; #14 bent. Those will be the culprits.
Thanks for that diagram and suggestion of culprits. That will be helpful.

Wheel is pulled BACK, right?
Yes^ Tire is closer to the rear of the fender, than the opposite side. Not centered, like the opposite side.

Unless the crossmember somehow got pulled back, but I do not know if you have crossmember or you are unibody. As if you are unibody, it's body damage.
I don't know either, offhand, crossmember or unibody. Could have been some bent body damage not so obvious or noticed before now. But as I've mentioned, no sign of uneven tire wear or such, or pulling/drifting alignment type issues while driving.

Thanks again and will keep ya posted...
 
  #20  
Old 12-18-16, 08:11 PM
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It clearly needs major investigation. Get her up on lift and take good looksie.
 
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Old 12-18-16, 08:16 PM
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Here's suggestion for you from another forum:

When I build a car, I always measure the actual wheelbase on both sides of the car and compare them. Simply take two people, one holding the end of the tape measure in the exact center of the rear axle, and the other looking at what the measurement is to the center of the front axle. Then do the other side.

Make sure the front wheels are pointing dead ahead, because even a little off will mess up the measurement.

There is a possibility that your front suspension is adjusted rearward on that one side, but I am not familiar with how that car locates its suspension, so maybe there is no front to back adjustment on that model.

Come back with the measurements and we can tell you more. Like Listener said, it could be just your body panels that are different on both sides, it happens.

Here, I just googled your cars specs. The wheelbase should be 106.3 inches:

Dimensions

Front Head Room: 39.0 "
Front Leg Room: 43.3 "
Overall height: 55.5 "
Overall Length: 185.8 "
Overall Width: 71.5 "
Rear Head Room: 37.6 "
Rear Leg Room: 36.2 "
Wheelbase: 106.3

This little video will show you how to measure the wheelbase:


https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/s...b&action=click
 
  #22  
Old 12-18-16, 09:03 PM
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Thanks for the additional info there ukbryk. I hope to get a chance to measure the wheelbase as per instructions.

it could be just your body panels that are different on both sides, it happens.
It happens? Surely that would mean from damage/accident and not by design, right?

It clearly needs major investigation. Get her up on lift and take good looksie.
Yeah something seems freaky. If I can't do a proper investigation I'll be having a local reputable shop here do that, at least.
 
  #23  
Old 12-28-16, 08:52 AM
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Update (mechanic report from reputable shop):
Initial investigation reveals probability of "slightly bent" control arm as cause of apparent displacement of wheel position. Despite this, the car still tracks straight, per test drive by two separate mechanics (and myself, again). Control arm bushings are in good shape. "Rubbing" noise as described/mentioned at beginning of thread here seems to have disappeared completely and does not recur; however upon investigation mechanic noted said left rear wheel pad to rotor (wheel not spinning as freely as it should) due to rust could have been source of noise mistakenly discerned to come from front right, but hard to say since noise is gone now. Said I probably should consider full rear brake job in near future, but otherwise found no big problems or immediate unsafe mechanical issues with wheels/suspension.
 
  #24  
Old 12-28-16, 03:36 PM
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Ahm,, "slightly bent" control arm resulting in THAT MUCH displacement is no concern? All righty then...
 
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Old 12-28-16, 06:08 PM
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It clearly needs major investigation. Get her up on lift and take good looksie.
^Done.

Small rural southeast Alaskan community here with short trips here to there and no long-distance or high speed driving. The apparent bent control arm and resulting displacement has most likely been like this since we bought the car used three years ago and have been driving the car with no front end problems since. I trust the mechanic it should be fine to live with it as is. Ideally, of course, it should be fixed. Someday, maybe.
 
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