92 Chevy Lumina 3.1 V6 (car)

Reply

  #1  
Old 01-02-02, 03:39 PM
bigmike
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Cool 92 Chevy Lumina 3.1 V6 (car)

See if anyone else has an idea, we are out of em. This is from my buddy Tom and what is going on...

Ok it started out it would die when you put it in reverse.
Usually the next day it would go ahead and run. I brought it home and it started then died in neutral. Now it will start after it has set overnight it will run about ten seconds or so, it runs smooth then acts like it's being choked and dies. After it dies it will try to hit but wont. After it sits overnight it will start and run for a short time 10 to 30 seconds and die then try to start but wont. I have replaced the module the coils the crank sensor the map and the fuel filter. Am wondering if it is the computer. From time to time before it started this it would cough out going down the road but never actually die and then might not do it for a long time. Felt like you had turned off the key for a split second.

From what I get from Tom it has fire as he got a good jolt from it last night And this happened overnight too. Ran Monday, started this Tuesday. I am also wondering about the ECM myself, could the manifold temp switch cause this? Anyway hopefully one of you motor heads can gives us non motorheads an idea of what size hammer to use to get this going Thanks guys... Bigmike
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 01-02-02, 05:01 PM
cheese's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,814
From your description, it sounds like you likely have a bad MAF sensor. I believe this car has one, and it is located in the air intake hose between the throttle body and air cleaner. When the car is running, tap the MAF with a screwdriver handle. If it immediately changes engine operation, it is bad, or the connections are loose/corroded. How many miles?
 
  #3  
Old 01-02-02, 05:30 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,538
could be a computer acting up you might try tap testing on the computer and see if the car dies, but you should also check fuel pressure to make sure its at spec it should be around 30 psi idling and 40 with key on engine off.
 
  #4  
Old 01-03-02, 01:46 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
I agree with all suggested here BigMike (hello by the way and Happy New Year! )

Coughing and sputtering could be MAF woes, and those were known to be pesky and not always set a code. Sometimes a poorly made air filter will cause paper dust to get on the inside and insulate it .

Sometimes you can "save" them by cleaning them with electronics spray, but most times it's more cost effective if it is the problem to replace 'em.

Most parts stores (the better ones) can send them out to their electronics supplier for testing for a test fee. That's better if the part is big ducats. A computer is an expensive mistake .

Post back more of what you find out and we'll try to help.

Check my post "The Basics" when it acts up. As mentioned, you must have good spark, fuel and air all the time or you're not going anywhere .
 
  #5  
Old 01-03-02, 02:50 AM
bigmike
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Cool More

No MAF, according to the book only a MAP (same thing more or less right?). Fuel pressure was the 1st thing ck'd, 39 PSI at the rail. The MAP is on the back side of the plenum with 2 wires and a vacuum hose. (Again according to the book and visual inspection.) I believe there are 60K miles may be 80K. Will find out for sure tonight. I holler about not enough info then forget the mileage, sorry. Will tell him to tap test the ECM, 28 ounce rig ax OK? I think he has a Berretta of the same year and has been scrapping parts from it for testing purpose. Same engine according to the book. He was going to try the ECM swap tonight then whatever works he was going to replace new. By the way, the scanner says no codes, soft or hard. We cannot do a drive code test on it for obvious reasons. My Cadillac did something like this and it wound up being carbon build up on the throttle body base. Oh yea, no hose from the bulk head to the plenum for a MAF sensor. That was my 1st thought. Thanks guys, I don't run into to much I can't finger out but boy when I do watch out! Happy New Year Joe
 
  #6  
Old 01-03-02, 03:34 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
39 PSI with it running or turning the key forward to pressurize? I have the specs and test procedure somewhere in the toolbox stored neatly away. Can go find it if you want.

Fuel filter been changed of late?

MAP is manifold air pressure, and most have one or the other (MAF or MAP). I remember there were some early conversions to speed density (I think that means it goes from MAF to MAP on the early 2.8's in the late 80's).

If you can swap things from car to car, go ahead as long as we are talking apples and apples. (Both 3.1 vin code T engines probably). That's a rare opportunity .

Make sure there is no fuel in the pressure regulator hose. These are the ones with the aluminum block style/type regulator. They are pesky too.

How's the TPS? Steady sweep on the voltmeter? Swap that from the other car too and see it improves.

Check for carbon and trouble on the Idle air control valve, but usually, you will get a hunt at an idle with that.

Ok, we'll wait for more.
 
  #7  
Old 01-03-02, 04:06 AM
bigmike
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Cool Filter

New filter was the first thing he tried. Pressure is during cranking. Our book is calling the MAP a Manifold Absolute Pressure Switch. The TPS has been mentioned but I wouldn't think it would cause this but since he can I will advise to swap it. Other things you mention will be passed along as soon as I get hold of Tom. Thanks Joe!
 
  #8  
Old 01-03-02, 04:34 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
BigMike:

I'm going to type the fuel pressure check procedure from my trusty Mitchell derived manual. Here goes. Might want to print for future reference:

Applies to 89-94 vehicles with MFI:

1) Connect pressure gauge, J34730-1 or equivalent to pressure test port on rail. Wrap a rag around the tap to absorb any leakage.

2) Turn the ignition ON and check that the pressure is between 24 and 40 PSI.

3) Start the vehicle and allow it to idle. Pressure should drop to 28 to 32 PSI due to the lower manifold pressure.

Idle pressure will vary depending on barometric pressure. Check for a drop in pressure indicating regulator control rather than a specific number.

4) Note applies to turbo vehicles, so I'll skip typing that.

5) If the pressure drops, check operation of check valve, pump coupling connection or pressure regulator and injector. Restricted fuel line may also cause a drop. To check fuel pump output, restrict the fuel return line and run 12 volts to the pump. The pressure should then rise to about 75 PSI with the line restricted.

6) If service is needed, fuel pressure must be relieved before attempting service.

Start there if everything else check out BigMike.

Now where can I get parts for my Super 8 Atlas Rand/Keystone projector ? Working on a few scenarios to convert some old movies to DVD and VHS.

I have more books that cover your problems, but let's go one at a time . I had to go ALL the WAY around the 79 Trans Am, into the Snap On cabinet and behind the OTHER books to find it. Lol.

Just kidding. Let us know what you find. Lol.

Good luck.
 
  #9  
Old 01-03-02, 04:45 AM
bigmike
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Cool Otay

Printed that out and will pass it along. So we'll start over just tell us what to do. I hate a car I can't work on! As for the projector good luck. I stopped trying to service them about five years ago. Reel to reel's too. Kodak still had some parts available but that was it. You might try searching for people that collect them. I have a GE electric fan dating from 1929, found a forum that deals in them but have since lost it. I knocked that very same fan off my dresser last year and bent the blades bad. Don't know if I can repair it or not. I will look around for projector stuff later today. I haven't been out of the house in five days, feeling mucho better so think I will crank the old Caddi up and go for a cruise. Later...
 
  #10  
Old 01-03-02, 04:52 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Ok BigMike, thanks.

1) When the vehicle stalls out, pull off a plug wire and tell me if you always have a fat blue consistent spark. If Tom's teeth are lighting up like you said, probably so, but we need to be sure. Lol. Sorry Tom.

2) Retest the fuel pressure as per notes above. Tell me what you find. I believe I have the coil resistance and module test procedures in the cabinet downstairs next to this book.

3) Take off the rubber line going to the fuel pressure regulator. If there's fuel in it, it's shot and your problem.

4) Check www.alldata.com for any known bulletins or issues that match your symptoms. A GM dealer can print out the full detail bulletins. Knuckles might be able to help you in this regard.

5) You changed all this stuff. New? From the junker? What brand?

6) Check for any vacuum leaks. Tough on that motor, it's packed in there.

7) Ever an erratic idle or a surge?

8) Whatever details you can furnish, go ahead. I'm all ears, errr, screen .

See ya later.
 
  #11  
Old 01-03-02, 05:21 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Ok BigMike,

Some more for you to check.

Crankshaft position sensor:

Disconnect CPS harness connector. Set meter to 2 kilo-ohm position. Measure resistance across the terminals. Should be 900-1200 ohms.

Set meter on the 2 volt AC scale. Crank engine and measure voltage across sensor terminals. Should be .1 volt or greater. If not, bad sensor or wiring.

Coils:

Remove the coil assembly and coils if needed.
Primary resistance should be .5 to .9 ohms
Secondary resistance should be 5000 to 10,000 ohms.

Module:

Says to get a module tester and that if all other avenues check out, might be a bad module


Let us know what you find.......Gotta a lotta checking to do here
 
  #12  
Old 01-03-02, 09:59 AM
bigmike
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Cool Cam Shaft

Shouldn't there be a Cam Shaft Sensor too?
 
  #13  
Old 01-03-02, 11:56 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
My information says no on the 3.1T engine, but you might want to check Delco's website to be sure:

www.acdelco.com

How did we make out with the other checks and areas I furnished above?
 
  #14  
Old 01-03-02, 12:01 PM
Gix
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
dont beleive this vehicle is equiped with a cam sensor, but after all this if u can get your hands on a test ecm , it could definitely
be a good assumption
 
  #15  
Old 01-03-02, 02:58 PM
bigmike
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Cool Uncle

He cried uncle He had been messing with it for over a week and gave up. Winched it up on a trailer and hauled to the man. Will let ya know what happened. The other tests all came out normal. He needs the car so going to bite the Mater Card and get it fixed. More to come...
 
  #16  
Old 01-04-02, 01:53 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Thumbs down

Lol. Ah

We probably would have figured it out.

Ok, BigMike, let us know.
 
  #17  
Old 01-04-02, 02:02 AM
bigmike
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Cool Wife

He has a good size family and I think the wifey was hollerin to get it fixed. It's awfull cold around here so I kinda understand. Yea as soon as I find out what the cure was I'll post it...
 
  #18  
Old 01-04-02, 02:15 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Ok.

BigMike,

Smokey always says, "Go with what BigMike says. He's my hero".

Poor BigMike: He has to hang up his superhero suit on this one. Lol .

Yup, post the resolution. I'm curious.

Stop by any time BigMike.

Later...
 
  #19  
Old 01-10-02, 04:32 PM
bigmike
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Heres what it was...

Thanks for all the help. Here's what the problem was...

Ok here it is. What caused all of this stuff, with the car, was the wires that go to the module had rubbed against a bracket at the back of the block. It had rubbed a hole through the wiring loom and had rubbed the insulation off of one of the wires inside and when the motor torque’s forward, for reverse, it was grounding out. I got under the car and found it, taped the wire and got a bigger piece of Loom and snapped it over the whole thing and then re-routed the wires. Runs like a new car. Thanks for all the ideas, Tom.
 
  #20  
Old 01-11-02, 01:38 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks BigMike for reporting back.

Makes perfect sense. Good that you found it.

Good job
 
  #21  
Old 03-14-02, 11:00 AM
bigmike
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Cool This'n too...

After all the checks etc done we got from here he was crawling around under the car looking for a dropped socket. We had the motor raised up a little and he looked up with this 500k spotlight and saw a wear mark completely thru the loom and into the wires themselves. Surprised me because no fuses, fusible links etc were popping. Pulled down, cleaned and re-taped the frayed wires and re-loomed/routed the harness. Car has run flawlessly since then. Can’t see the trees for the forest… again, thanks all for the help!!! And sorry I didn’t post the fix
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes