1985 Mazda 626 LX headaches!

Reply

  #1  
Old 02-16-02, 04:51 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Conus
Posts: 505
Question 1985 Mazda 626 LX headaches!

Hello;
I have a 1985 Mazda 626 LX 4 cyl that is driving me ( or lack of driving actually!)crazy and I have no idea where to begin.
Here is the problem. Just before the playoffs for the SuperBowl ( thats how far back this goes!) the fuel pump on this car started to spray gasoline all over the engine compartment. This was from the vent holes in the bottom of the pump. I replaced the pump with a Napa pump of the same specifications. While I was at it I figured I would replace the following;
Fuel filter
fuel line from pump to carb.
Spark plugs
Distributer cap
Rotor
When installing the pump I primed it, at the carb, with gas through the fuel line at the carb and the carb itself. The auto ran for a few days then the fun started.
It seems it will run purrfectly for a few days then while running it will slowly die, then stall. It has died on me at highway speeds where it quit, restarted to run, then just quit again. Needless to say this is not fun and quite dangerous.
After the auto has sat awhile it will restart and work again for a few more days.Then start all over again.
When it has died I have attempted to restart it with a Quickstart jumper battery and some spray starting fluid. When doing this sometimes it will catch then just die. The battery also always seems to be dead. On one attempt I could not even get the dashlights on while connected with the jumper battery.
After one stoppage,I had the auto towed to a station, who works on these cars, and he had to let it sit overnight ( I just made his shop closing!)and of course the next morning it started right up and he ran it all day with no problems.
Of course!! He did run a load test and he stated that the alt seemed to always be putting out extra voltage in the range of 1.6 volts. While on this,I have noticed that the battery seems to always be bubbling fluid. Also dangerous to me and the car.

Previously, after one stoppage I had found a broken vacuum hose and replaced it.( You may remember that!) I have checked all of the hoses and they seem to be alright.

I am at a lost for ideas! Could it be any of the following?
-the alternator/rectifier/regulator breaking down
-the ignition coil be defective.
-bad fuel pump ( this is a mechanical pump, usually very reliable)
-bad EGR valve

I have tried the Chiltons website with negative results,the shop manual that I purchased with the car,and also Mazdas' site. That only helps if you want a new car. The dealer that I had purchased from is now defunct and the remaining one around here is not a very reliable dealership. Bringing a auto there is like playing three card monte! ( Watch the Red!!!) You always lose!!!!!
Any suggestions/insight would be appreciated!
BTW,Sorry for the length of this post.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 02-16-02, 05:05 PM
mooser1
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
it sounds like the Napa pump is either faulty or not the right one for your vehicle...you wouldn't be the first person to get a faulty aftermarket item...I would return it and try another, at the same time re-replace the fuel filter, could be the new pump has such good suction power compared to the old one you have sucked trash out of the tank and plugged the new filter already...

good place to start......
 
  #3  
Old 02-16-02, 06:23 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Conus
Posts: 505
626 mazda

Hi;
I forgot to add one other thing to my original post. Recently while driving, or idling, I have noticed that the headlights appear to flicker. All of them, hi and low, and even the interior lights.
 
  #4  
Old 02-16-02, 07:17 PM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
An overcharging alternator will cause fluid to bubble out of the battery. It should not be higher than about 14.2 volts running with no load. If it is, likely a defective regulator in the alternator...replace the alternator with a rebuilt unit.
 
  #5  
Old 02-16-02, 07:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Conus
Posts: 505
Hi Joe;
Could the malfunctioning reg. be resposible for the lights flickering/battery cooking/dying , and the auto stalling? Also,could the ignition coil be weak and be replaced? Could it be shutting down on me after running awhile and warming up? Is that possible?
If the auto was connected to a jump start battery, would it contime to run as long as the battery was attached, or would it stop once it initially turned on? This is what happens here. It will turn over then stop even with the jumpers attached. The auto sometimes will start with a jump, and some start fluid, then just die.
I'm trying to narrow it down on the cost of replacement items here . ( Coil or alternator)
Thanks!
 
  #6  
Old 02-16-02, 08:51 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Conus
Posts: 505
626

Hi;
Auto was stuck again in a shopping center. After leaving it to sit for 4 hours, went back. The butterfly was open when the car had stalled but upon return it was closed,so choke apparently works properly, but wouldn't start. Gave a shot of starter fluid and after two tries restarted and was able to drive home. Engine idles extremly rough when first started and for a little while thereafter. Then evens out, but still misses a beat now and then.
The tacometer goes from lower than 500 to over 1700, almost pulsing. It usually runs around 1500, if I remember right. Wife says that the auto feels sluggish while driving it as compared to the way it operated before problem started.
Vaccuum problem I'm missing? Along with the other things! ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!
 
  #7  
Old 02-17-02, 08:02 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Bob,

Be more specific about the troubles.

When it doesn't start, do you always have spark and fuel? If you lack one of those two when you have trouble, the problem is there.

Aside from that, you sound like you have both a charging system and vacuum problem. A charging system problem might cause that pulsing at idle. If you are gassing out the battery like that, I would pitch the alternator, the regulator inside is probably shot. Have it checked at a parts store...most test alternators free of charge. I would say go with a Mazda rebuilt unit, but on this old heap, parts will get costly fast and frankly, it's not worth sinking much green into.

Double check all your vacuum lines. Go to the links in my signature file and see if they have good vacuum diagrams. If not, there should be one under your hood. Check them all thoroughly.

Case in point: My grandparent's 89 Cavalier has been running rough. I detected a misfire and since the ignition wires were original, I decided to change them and the plugs. Still the same problem. Got out my scanner and was just putzing with the thing trying to get readings, when I noticed the MAP sensor voltage changing and heard a vacuum leak/idle surge. My friend was with me and he happened to move the vacuum line to the MAP and low and behold the idle changed .

Problem found. Cracked vacuum hose. Even the best of us sometimes get perplexed .

I also found a bulletin on a cold "driveaway" problem which I have noticed on this car and that's a PROM update in my case which I will do.
 
  #8  
Old 02-18-02, 07:30 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Conus
Posts: 505
626 headaches3

Hi Joe F;
In pursuit of the problem with this car, I took some electrical readings at the battery with digital and analog voltmeters. The battery at the post, with the engine off reads 13.5 volts.
With the engine on, I get fluctuating readings from 11.8 up to 14.85 even surging at one time to 15.4. These are changing constantly almost flashing on the digital. I tested each reading for appox one minute before going on to the next. For the tests I did with the engine on, no load, and then with each electrical item turned on, and added, until every blasted item in the car was on. Is this right, should the readings be fluctuating so much? I recorded the readings for each item but the numbers here are the average figures.
I tested the coil, as per Chiltons book which I got from the library, and it reacts to the tests as per the book. Coil wire pulled, light on coil etc.
I did notice, however, that with the cooling fan engaged the battery voltage would drop. At one point below 10v and falling, then the fan would disengage and the Volts would climb slowly upwards.
I took note that the stopping is usually after short trips ( going to store,etc) with a lot of starting, stopping and possibly the cooling fan kicking in. I'm starting to believe that it is the regulator because that would explain the dead battery and the feeling of the gradual loss of power. However, its been my experience that they just usually go blewly and quit, never so randomly. Could it be possible that it is defective on a random basis,quitting and discharging the battery?
The alternator is a OEM that came with the car. It has the following on it
Mitsbishi
IC Regulator Built in alternator
A25T41191
FE01 18 300B 12V60A
Please let me know what are your thoughts. Thanks!
 

Last edited by Bob M; 02-18-02 at 08:02 PM.
  #9  
Old 02-18-02, 07:46 PM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
And the results were ?
 
  #10  
Old 02-18-02, 07:56 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Conus
Posts: 505
Angry 626 headaches

Hi Joe;
Sorry hit wrong key and kicked myself out before finishing! DOH!!!!!!
Maybe there should be a warning at begining to engage cookie( or am I missing it!) because won't let me post without cookies on!
Please see above post.
 

Last edited by Bob M; 02-18-02 at 08:58 PM.
  #11  
Old 02-19-02, 03:46 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Anything lower than 13.5 or so at idle is grounds for a bad alternator. Replace it with a factory rebuilt unit. The regulator is internal to the alternator on most vehicles. Rebuilding that one could be done, but it's a little daunting to the DIY person.

Easiest way is to replace with a rebuilt, OE preferred, but is probably a mint for this old shoe and not worth it. A good parts store one should keep you going for a while.
 
  #12  
Old 02-20-02, 06:08 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Conus
Posts: 505
626 headaches

Hi Joe;
Dug out a a old RAM Engine Analyzer that I forgot I had and it on the auto. I hooked it all up, put the ammeter on the alternator with the shunt bar and the clips on the battery. I also hooked up my digital voltmeter to the battery.
This alternator, with no load, and in 2nd gear ( car jacked and blocked, of course!) reads at 2.5 amps, 14.1 volts (fluctuating as noted in my previous posts). Is it right that the amps should be so low?
When load is gradually added the amps will climb as high as 30 amps. Some of the load cause the meter to go to 20A with oscillation. When put in, and out, of Park will alternate between 2.5 and 5A, again fluctuating. When not fluctuating will steady, for a period, at either 2.5 or 5 A. During these surges the auto sounds like it wants to quit.
I just was wondering if you might have any idea as to what the amps should be as the output.
Also on the alternator below the B terminal there is a wire that appears to be a fuse link. This is not hooked to the L or R terminals. Nor is it into the F terminal This is a short wire that detaches from the alternator and clips to another wire. This has a normal female electrical connector, encased in a plastic housing, to attach to the alt. but also has a small metal bar, in the housing, above it. This bar appears to be worn. Again any ideas as to what this wire is?

Thanks for your patience.
 
  #13  
Old 02-20-02, 09:34 PM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Bob,

On some cars (GM) you ground the regulator. Full fielding it and if you get within 10% of the number stamped on the case, you're OK. Not sure about Mazda.

Put the meter on. Put it to DC volts.

Crank up the heap, errr, vehicle .

Measure the output at the battery. Should be 14.2 volts or close to it.

Slowly add accessories, and all of 'em. Still got 13.5 volts or higher? If you don't, alternator's likely wiped.

Try that and tell us what you find.
 
  #14  
Old 02-21-02, 04:35 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Conus
Posts: 505
626 Headaches

Hi Joe;
Went to do the electrical checks like you suggested. The Battery now starts at around thirteen and charges at 14.1
Was having problems with duplicating the stalling, even the mechanics couldn't get it to stall! Rechecked the fuelpump by opening the backflow hose and fuel all over. Then realized that all checks are done with the hood open. Closed the hood ran the engine to 2500 rpms and presto stall! At this time the dying engine had of course slowly stopped driving the alternator.
Felt the BRAND NEW fuel pump and it was extremely HOT!! Open the back flow and nothing. Pumped the gas and cranked nothing! Iced down the pump and it starts right up and runs until you close the hood and it heats up again. This pump must vapor lock for some reason.
Should I blow out the backflow, or I guess its back to NAPA, and aggravation, and then Mazda for a new pump.
Does the vapor lock sound right?
 
  #15  
Old 02-21-02, 04:49 PM
mooser1
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Bob, it may be simpler than that...

try hooking the gas line back up.....remove the cap on your fuel tank and see if it will pump gas and fire up...also check that the vent hose coming out of the gas tank isn't kinked or plugged...it's possible fuel cap has gone south and isn't venting, or pickup tube inside the tank is blocked....the poor pump is sucking it's guts out and creating a giant vacuum inside the tank....if this won't cure it, I would opt for the factory pump.....
 
  #16  
Old 02-22-02, 09:49 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Conus
Posts: 505
626 Headaches

Hi Joe/Mooser1:
Thought that I would give a progress report here. Mooser followed your suggestions, put pump back on, blew out lines with low pressure until gas could be heard bubbling in the tank, tested for suction but now there is none. Retraced every vaccuum line and they are all in one piece and hooked up properly. At least I think so!
Finally got disgusted and decided to take pump off and back to NAPA. I must say, in all fairness, they were very nice about it. When explained concerning the heating of the pump and running after icing it was agreed that it definitely is a vapor lock. The manager even called the Napa engineers. Only their engineer said it couldn't be because the pump was designed to avoid it! We know engineers,just like accountants, are never wrong!
Here is the clicker, I finally got smart ( that brain cell finally woke up!) and compared the two pumps side by side. Guess what? The NAPA pump has a restrictor jet built into it inside the backflow noozle!Hard to see but it is in there. When pointed out to the manager of NAPA even he was suprised and puzzled and agreed that this is probably the problem. He then returned my money for the part.
Swallowed my pride, and went to Mazda, actually found a mechanic and manager who would talk to me,a first at this place!The mech. informed me, that the Napa parts don't give the right pressure for this year car.That there is a restriction in the noozle and that was before I even finished what I was saying and as soon as he heard Napa! In no way here am I rapping Napa,it's just that I think that the engineers tried to meet too many OEM's in one part. So compare the original parts to the replacements before purchasing.
Now after consulting their archives, ( I'm not kidding here, the computers don't go that far back! LOL!! ) they had to go to the old parts order books!I am awaiting the new part from Mazda that should be the right part. ( Keeping fingers crossed!)Only problem is I'm back to waiting a week for it.
The loss of power, at the battery, may be from the constant cranking of the engine. Tested it again and it is at about 12.5 V but the hydrometer says that some of the cells are weak.That may still be a problem to be rectified (no pun intended her!) but that will be addressed after I get the engine running again.
The saga will continue, thanks for your help and patience, both of you!
 
  #17  
Old 02-22-02, 10:32 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Bob,

Sounds good. Just let us know what you find.

Aftermarket pumps are fine, it depends on where they are sourcing them. Some are not very good.

Ah cmon, it's not THAT old to get a part . Just tell 'em to whip out the "Mazda fast moving parts guide" or worse yet, the old microfiche

My Mazda information shows the pump part # to be FE01-13-350A for this 85 626. Should be readily available for this old shoe.
 
  #18  
Old 02-23-02, 11:12 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Conus
Posts: 505
626 fuel pump part #

Hi Joe;
That's what they had to do. Go to the Micro and look up the part number. Oh, how I hated thos things! Got dizzy looking for the right information with it flashing by with each small motion of your hand!
The part number you gave is exactly what they ordered for me and I am now waiting for it.
Maybe when I return I'll steer towards that same mech. and see if he can answer my questions on the wiring and specs for that alternator.
 
  #19  
Old 02-27-02, 02:40 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Conus
Posts: 505
626 Headaches

Hi guys;
It's me again with a Mazda 626 update! Picked up the Mazda OEM pump today installed it and, after priming, it now runs perfectly ( or at close as one can get with a 17 year old car!). Learned a lesson in that Mazda tolerances for aftermarket knockoffs are very low and that the same products are in the cost ballpark at the dealership.
A byline to this is that I found the mechanic who is very knowledgeable and willing to help with advice and FREE! That in itself is almost the aggravation of this episode! Thanks for the help all!
 
  #20  
Old 02-27-02, 07:03 PM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Sounds good Bob. Good deal.

You likely got a poor quality fuel pump, not all aftermarket parts are bad however .
 
  #21  
Old 08-25-02, 02:01 AM
ImBuzz916
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1985 Mazda 626 LX headaches!

Originally posted by Bob M
Hello;
I have a 1985 Mazda 626 LX 4 cyl that is driving me ( or lack of driving actually!)crazy and I have no idea where to begin.
Here is the problem. Just before the playoffs for the SuperBowl ( thats how far back this goes!) the fuel pump on this car started to spray gasoline all over the engine compartment. This was from the vent holes in the bottom of the pump. I replaced the pump with a Napa pump of the same specifications. While I was at it I figured I would replace the following;
Fuel filter
fuel line from pump to carb.
Spark plugs
Distributer cap
Rotor
When installing the pump I primed it, at the carb, with gas through the fuel line at the carb and the carb itself. The auto ran for a few days then the fun started.
It seems it will run purrfectly for a few days then while running it will slowly die, then stall. It has died on me at highway speeds where it quit, restarted to run, then just quit again. Needless to say this is not fun and quite dangerous.
After the auto has sat awhile it will restart and work again for a few more days.Then start all over again.
When it has died I have attempted to restart it with a Quickstart jumper battery and some spray starting fluid. When doing this sometimes it will catch then just die. The battery also always seems to be dead. On one attempt I could not even get the dashlights on while connected with the jumper battery.
After one stoppage,I had the auto towed to a station, who works on these cars, and he had to let it sit overnight ( I just made his shop closing!)and of course the next morning it started right up and he ran it all day with no problems.
Of course!! He did run a load test and he stated that the alt seemed to always be putting out extra voltage in the range of 1.6 volts. While on this,I have noticed that the battery seems to always be bubbling fluid. Also dangerous to me and the car.

Previously, after one stoppage I had found a broken vacuum hose and replaced it.( You may remember that!) I have checked all of the hoses and they seem to be alright.

I am at a lost for ideas! Could it be any of the following?
-the alternator/rectifier/regulator breaking down
-the ignition coil be defective.
-bad fuel pump ( this is a mechanical pump, usually very reliable)
-bad EGR valve

I have tried the Chiltons website with negative results,the shop manual that I purchased with the car,and also Mazdas' site. That only helps if you want a new car. The dealer that I had purchased from is now defunct and the remaining one around here is not a very reliable dealership. Bringing a auto there is like playing three card monte! ( Watch the Red!!!) You always lose!!!!!
Any suggestions/insight would be appreciated!
BTW,Sorry for the length of this post.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes