Fuel Injector cleaners?

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  #1  
Old 02-25-02, 07:34 AM
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Location: middleboro,ma
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Question Fuel Injector cleaners?

Hi,
I was wondering if you recomend using Fuel Injector cleaners periodically?Such as Gum-out,or pyroil brand?
I own a 1991 Ford F150 with the 5.0L motor.It has 158,000 miles on it,and seems to run good?Thanks, Charlie
 
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  #2  
Old 02-25-02, 07:45 AM
Joe_F
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Nah...

Techtron is the best, but in my opinion if you use good quality fuel and do regular maintenance, there is no need for that stuff.

At this point, the "damage" is done....you're wasting your green.
 
  #3  
Old 02-25-02, 04:41 PM
5steins
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I agree - no need - especially if it runs fine leave it alone. I have heard some people feel it helps but in my experience no benefits
 
  #4  
Old 02-26-02, 06:21 AM
sciguyjim
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Fuel Injector Cleaners

Here are the results of extensive comparison tests I've done on various engine cleaners. I can email the list to anyone who's interested. [email protected]


For my tests, I tried to use a wide variety of products, well known and unknown, expensive and cheap, and also some pure solvents in order to represent a good cross section of products on the market. Note, carbon itself (such as soot and other thermally decomposed material) is not soluble in ANY solvent but solvents like dimethylformamide and N-methyl pyrrolidone do a good job of breaking up clumps and dispersing the fine particles to release the heavy tarry materials trapped within them. However, some of these solvents are too harsh to use freely in the fuel system. (Someone in one of these forums told me that when the auto industry looks for good cleaners, they mostly look for solvents that will not attack the plastic and rubber parts in the system.)

Most cleaners (the safer & slightly less effective ones) usually have common solvents in them like toluene, alcohol, acetone or methyl ethyl ketone, and naphtha. If you want to use these to clean your system, you can get more for your money by buying the pure solvents at a hardware store and mixing them yourself. I have never had a problem adding toluene, acetone, alcohol, or naphtha to my gas tank in quantities up to one quart per 16 gallons.

Most of the straight solvents I used are at least as flammable as gasoline so be careful if you use them. The alcohol used was pure, 100% isopropyl alcohol. This has no water in it, it is not the same as "rubbing alcohol".

These test results are as fairly and accurately done as I could manage with the equipment I had available, and the other data presented is also accurate to my knowledge. Your car may have different plastics in it than mine does so if you choose to make your own cleaner, do it at your own risk.

TEST RESULTS
RELATIVE EFFICIENCIES AT WHICH VARIOUS CLEANERS WILL DISSOLVE HIGH BOILING RESIDUES FROM GASOLINE AND CARBONACEOUS DEPOSITS FOUND IN USED MOTOR OIL, (10=BEST):

10 Gunk Gas Treatment
10 Toluene (a common ingredient)
9 Castrol Syntec Power System
8 Duralube Fuel System Cleaner
7 Gunk Fuel Injector Cleaner
6 Redline SI-1
5 Gunk Air Intake Cleaner
4 Naphtha (a common ingredient)
4 STP Fuel System Cleaner
4 Seafoam Motor Tuneup
4 Trak Fuel Injector Cleaner
4 STP Intake Valve Cleaner
4 CD-2 Emission Cure
4 Prolong Fuel System Treatment
3 CD-2 Fuel Injector Cleaner
3 Techron Concentrate
0.5 Butyl Cellosolve (a COMMONLY used "AUTO INDUSTRY DETERGENT" for oil and grease)

THE FOLLOWING CLEANERS DO NOT HURT NYLON (LISTED RANDOMLY). (The letters in parentheses indicate how well they dissolved the material from used oil, A=best.):

Toluene (A)
2-Phenoxyethanol (A)
Duralube Fuel System Treatment (B)
B-12 Chemtool (B)
Trak Fuel Injector Cleaner (C)
Techron Concentrate (D)
STP Intake Valve Cleaner (E)
Seafoam Motor Tuneup
CD-2 Emission Cure
Prolong Fuel System Treatment
Aromatic distillates
Naphtha
Butyl cellosolve
Acetone

THE FOLLOWING CLEANERS WILL DECOMPOSE THE NYLON SOCK IN THE FUEL TANK. Listed in order of increasing severity:

STP Fuel System Treatment
CD-2 Fuel Injector Cleaner
Gunk Fuel Injector Cleaner
Castrol Syntec Power System
Redline SI-1
Gunk Gas Treatment
Monoethanolamine
(The monoethanolamine is the worst here. It turns nylon black on contact. It is significant to note here that the "best" "detergents" in use today are similar, strongly alkaline organic solvents). Another use for the current bunch of organic amine "detergents" is cleaning deposits out of cylinders, so I hear.
 
  #5  
Old 02-26-02, 06:26 AM
Joe_F
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However, what is the benefit of using them ?

Did you track fuel mileage improvements? HP improvements on a dyno? Decreased emissions before and after using it?

Sure they react well in a lab enviornment but how did it perform in the real world? .

Not doubting what you did, but nothing replaces regular maintenance. Cars like mine with over 100k and flying through the NYS dyno inspection every year prove that .
 
  #6  
Old 02-26-02, 06:57 AM
sciguyjim
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My purpose was to compare possible cleaning ability. These tests were all done in my "lab", not on a car so I can't say how mileage or emissions would have changed. I'm not saying they are good or bad, only that some are more aggressive than others.
 
  #7  
Old 02-26-02, 07:08 AM
sciguyjim
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My purpose was to compare possible cleaning ability. These tests were all done in my "lab", not on a car so I can't say how mileage or emissions would have changed. I'm not saying they are good or bad, only that some are more aggressive than others.
 
  #8  
Old 02-26-02, 08:11 AM
Joe_F
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Whoa, double post .

True, I'm not mitigating what you did in any way.

It's just that you have to achieve real world results to have any benefit.

I can tell you that most independent labs would probably not find much different than you did.

Again, I leave that stuff on the shelf. The money is better spent on other areas of maintenance and repair to enhance longevity.
 
  #9  
Old 02-26-02, 10:48 AM
sciguyjim
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Sorry about the double post. I don't know how that happened, all I know is after I sent it I couldn't get back to the auto forum. I kept trying to approach from different directions but nothing worked so I gave up. The extra post probably got sent as I jumped around.

Anyway, you may have the knowledge and tools to remove your injectors to see just how much crud is building up on them, but I don't so I wonder about that. I know there are detergents added to the gas to minimize buildup but I don't know how well they work or how much crud is enough to affect the spray pattern. Adding some cleaner is faster and cheaper than paying someone to look at these things. If it helps, good, if not, then I'll spend a little more for a more in depth analysis of the problem.
 
  #10  
Old 02-26-02, 04:03 PM
Joe_F
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Most modern injectors do not clog up like these companies would have you think. They might electrically short or eventually wear out, but if you use good quality fuel and perform regular maintenance, nothing else is required. The same for oil additives and the like.

Now for me to spend my money, I would need proof it's going to do anything.

The only way to properly clean injectors is to remove them and clean them ultrasonically. The stuff in the can might remove some water, but it's not doing any good up front. ASNU makes a machine to clean them ultrasonically.

In fact GM usually warns AGAINST cleaning injectors as many chemicals degrade the seals.

I might spend the same money (if not less) to do the maintenance and in the long run, that's worth more in terms of saving the car and making it more efficient than those fix in a bottle deals...Newsflash: There is no fix in a bottle.

Bosch injectors have a conical type spray pattern. Rochester Multecs may not. So you'd look at them and say "Whoa, must need a cleaning". Nope.
 
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