Am I Getting Screwed?

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  #1  
Old 03-07-02, 12:06 PM
darlab
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Angry Am I Getting Screwed?

I recently took our 97 Breeze into the dealer because the check engine light kept coming on. We haven't had any problems with the car before this, the only thing we suspected was that the thermostat wasn't working, which was true and they replaced it. They said that the 02 sensor might need replaced but they weren't sure because fixing the termostat might fix that problem. They said the cam was leaking and put a new seal on it, and I brought it home. Prior to this we didn't have any oil leaks. Ok, the car is now leaking oil since they fixed it. I took it back and they said that my head gaskets are leaking and need to be replaced, that when you fix one leak it can cause another problem to leak and that when they replaced the cam sensor it increased the oil pressure. Am I getting screwed? It seems awful strange that I didn't have any leaks until they fixed the cam. Any advice would be helpful, they want close to $800 to fix the head gaskets.
 
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  #2  
Old 03-07-02, 12:07 PM
Joe_F
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I'd say.

Call Chrysler's 800 line and give 'em lip. The O2 sensor should be covered as part of the 5/50 federal emissions warranty from what I recall.
 
  #3  
Old 03-07-02, 08:48 PM
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How can replacing the cam sensor increase the oil pressure??!! Bull you-know-what! I noticed you said cam seal in one place, and cam sensor in another...but neither will increase oil pressure. And head gaskets shouldn't leak oil. They CAN, but usually don't. Valve cover gasket maybe? From the sound of it, you're getting incorrect info from the dealer.
 
  #4  
Old 03-08-02, 05:11 AM
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Sounds to me like the service writer (who frequently doesn't KNOW a cam seal from a cam sensor) is blowing smoke up your darriere. I'm trying to figure out the relationship between the thermostat and the O2 sensor, too; a bad O2 sensor should give them a code unless I'm missing something here, and even if not, there ARE ways to test one.
 
  #5  
Old 03-08-02, 05:44 AM
Joe_F
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I agree. Sounds like they are just changing parts. Time to speak to the dealership owner to get it all fixed up.

If not, on the blower with Chrysler corporate and they will rectify it
 
  #6  
Old 03-13-02, 07:25 AM
darlab
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Thumbs up 97 Plymouth Head Gasket Leaking? Not!

Just thought I'd fill you guys in on the prob I had with our 97 Plym Breeze. My suspicions were right, I was getting screwed big time. My husband (who drives long haul), came home and checked where the dealer had replaced the cam sensor gasket and it was obviously leaking. We went to talk to the Service Manager and he danced around the fact that it was leaking after they fixed it and swore that he saw for himself that the head was leaking. He said he was going to work on getting the head gaskets fixed at cost. He finally decided to replace the gasket once again which amazingly stopped the leak. I called Chrysler which ticked him off and he told me that he couldn't tell me if the head was still leaking. Amazing!! It's really sad because we live in a small town and they're the only Chrysler dealer here and we have lost all faith in them. Anyway, I want to thank everyone for there input it was appreciated.
 
  #7  
Old 03-13-02, 07:43 AM
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Simple fix for an incompetent dealership - find a good independent, there's lots of them out there even if it means driving a little farther.
 
  #8  
Old 03-13-02, 09:09 AM
xiii13
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I agree with the_tow_guy. That service manager was an a**. If that was me, that would be the last time I go to him for anything. He took advantage of you because you are a female. I know you live in a small town, but there has got to be a good independent close by. Call Chrysler back and put in a complaint on this guy.
 
  #9  
Old 03-13-02, 09:19 AM
Joe_F
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Go above the service manager and speak to the dealership owner.

If they refuse to let you speak to that individual, Chrysler would be happy to make that phone call for you.

Dealers do not like the "calls from headquarters", so they are likely to comply now and in the future .
 
  #10  
Old 03-13-02, 12:58 PM
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Ripped Off

He took advantage of you because you are a female. That used to be, the whole truth and nutin but the truth. Today a lot of the younger guys are getting it in the end also.

When I was growing up in the ARMY, I remember every saturday, there was a Dad and Jr. bent over the family car. All over the Post. As we grew up some of us went off to make the big money & did not do our own Auto Maintance. We just had it done and B&C about the cost.

What happened to the Jrs. today? Well let's just say many, did not even get the basics. Over the years I have had many Male & Female Clients, and I felt one thing I could do, was to teach them some buzz words. Also a way to present themselves, so as to give pause, to the Rip off Mechanics. Like. Does she, or dosen't she know about cars? It works well in many cases.

I know that there are Mechanics on this post like me whos wives or Girlfriends can build an engine with the best of them. However if not, you can teach them enough of the lingo, and maybe even something about the different systems to help keep them safe, when you are not there.

This gos for your male clients also. I will keep this short. A story of Cherry 1970 step side C/10. With a happy ending.

My son and I Blueprinted a realy nice 327 for this guy. A class A job. When he moved to VA. we told him to find a garage that just did Transmissions, with a good Rep, and have that TH 400 in good shape, rebuilt with top of the line parts. So he did. After 1 month he had trouble with the Starter that we rebuilt to a T. Then he took it to BuBa, and when he got ahold of it, and did not understand why we wired the Electric fuel pump safety shutoff switch to the solenoid, he just ran a wire from ING in the fuse panel, and cut and hooked the other wires up here and there twisted and taped.

Well after running 12 volts to the coil and 6 volts to the fuel pump for about 2 weeks, he came back down for a carb rebuild because he thought something we did, was wrong with the Carb. New Holley 4160 jeted and tuned by yours truly. This Hot red C/10 would haul more than a load.

Also that new lol (Advance Auto) starter was giving him trouble just like the one we rebuilt.

Findings: The safety start switch in the transmission needed adjusting. The starter worked each time after that. The 6 volt only coil running on 12 volts was toast as was the 12 volt fuel pump running on 6 volts. Holley 4160 was fine, wires were cut and some were burned.

The only problem ever, was, the Safety start switch needed adjusted. If you are a Big Shot making $125,000 per year, and your Mechanics try to teach you a little, about your truck like, if your starter does not work check yor lights, lift up on your shift lever and try to start again ect.

These are just a few of the things we tried to teach him over the years. His reply last repair "I don't care, as long as I don't have to get messy" Ya know at $75.00 per hour I'll keep him from getting messy. It takes all kinds. Most folks though are grateful I must say. Marturo
 
  #11  
Old 03-13-02, 01:09 PM
chadtoolio
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I would rather have informed customers and don't mind them getting them involved with the details. I believe that I can explain every aspect involved with my repair so that they will understand what is going on.. I think that some of that is missing in today's market place... I also think that any service writer or manager ought to have at least 5 years working on autos themselves....

Well, at least that's my thought... Nice post Marturo
 
  #12  
Old 03-13-02, 01:16 PM
Joe_F
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Very true what these guys state. However, most people do not fix their own stuff (whatever it is) and would rather pay someone, replace it, or throw it out .

I have restored excellent equipment this way at minimum cost. I will always putter and try to perfect things, just the way I am .

That being said, it helps to be informed to ask the right questions.
 
  #13  
Old 03-13-02, 03:24 PM
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Service Writers

Well said chadtoolio,

Shop work would have been much easier if the SM just knew the right questions to ask the person with the answers. The Driver.

I have worked in many shops. some with SMs that had been Mechanics and some with so called people skills.

Clacking noise under hood, fix to run. Tune up?? Brakes don't work. Need I say more?

See for yourself how well we work as a team here, at FIY when we can get the information from the Driver.

I have watched as 4 or 5 mechanics are working together with one driver. Without benefit of even a test light. It's our experience alone that we are going on.

And most times we get the problem solved. That's a great team, and just speaking for myself I feel at home here.

Marturo
 
  #14  
Old 03-13-02, 05:23 PM
Joe_F
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Thumbs up

And Marturo is surely part of the team of good folks (among many others) that make this forum the great thing it is

(Tips his hat)
 
  #15  
Old 03-14-02, 04:58 AM
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On the matter of younger vehicle owners who are clueless on anything besides where the gas cap is: I attribute this somewhat to two things - #1 is that when you throw up the hood on a typical vehicle these days, it's a whole lot different than when some of us lifted the lid on, say, our 1964 Buick Special (my 2nd car). Granted there are a lot of mechanical systems that are virtually unchanged in the last 50 years or so (like brake systems minus ABS), but with the advent of fuel injection and electronic EVERYTHING the chances of the average teenager opening the hood of his non-runner and having a chance of getting it running are greatly reduced. #2 is that although there still ARE vehicles around that kids could learn from as in #1 above (i.e. Joe's favorite old GM products), unfortunately very few own them, they prefer shiney new to old and reliable (and of course if Mom & Dad are springing for the price, buy the brand new Honda, drive it into the ground in a couple of years and get them to buy you another). I personally didn't own a factory-new vehicle until I was 32 yrs old (an '86 Corolla) and the only vehicle I didn't pay for with my own money was the Yamaha 80cc motorcycle I got handed down to me by big brother when I was 15.

Ah well, every year that less and less people know how their vehicles operate and what it takes to keep them trouble-free is a better year for those of in the business.
 
  #16  
Old 03-14-02, 05:50 AM
Joe_F
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Very true.

Not many folks fix much of anything anymore . I try to fix everything and have all the parts breakdowns for all my stuff.

A lot of folks would have given up on my mother's 32 year old GE fridge when it died 2 years ago. Two phone calls, 45 bucks, and an hour later, a new cold control solved the problem. 800 bucks averted .

I try to service and stick with what I have. The lack of vocational programs and viable careers in the auto industry have helped damage the trade...as did the throw away mentality you allude to as well.

Although a car is the 2nd largest investment you'll make in your life .
 
  #17  
Old 03-16-02, 11:56 AM
Bob Manthei
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We owned a 87' Caravan. At about 52k the check engine light came on. I ordered the factory service manual to check the procedures for correcting the problem. I was amazed to learn from the manual that at about 52, 347 miles (give or take) that the light was preprogramed to come on so that the owner would take the vehicle in for inspection. There was nothing wrong, other than it was time for a factory recommended checkup, and time to replace the 9volt battery that backed up the milage counter. Over the course of 10 years and 180k I had to reset the counter at least two more times. I do know that the newer cars keep a diagnostic log of all the errors reported to the Central Processing Unit ( CPU - the on board computer) so a tech can correct any problem. Even an engine misfire is recorded and can be due to a faulty cam sensor. I had this problem on a brand new 97' Jeep Cherokee that was two weeks old. I would request to see the log and you should be able to get a print out of it. The log should still be stored in the vehicle's CPU if it has not been reset.
 
  #18  
Old 03-16-02, 11:58 AM
chadtoolio
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That log is deleted every time that you clear the fault memory...

I wish it worked that way though....
 
  #19  
Old 03-16-02, 01:48 PM
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Determination

I think back, as I read Joes post about our state of mind when it comes to fixing something. We were the little boys & girls that the other kids came to when their chain came off their bikes.

We were never satisfied to just have something , we wanted to know how it worked. So we took thinks apart, sometime we got them back together sometimes not.

I have seen you on other parts of DIY. I built this Computer, I am writing to you on. Some of you built yours or will soon.

We are here because we like to help people, but also because we like to be around each other.

There are people who come here looking for help, so they can do it themselves, yet others are looking for a second & third opinion. They will never try to do it themselves, but they want to feel, that they are puting the problem in someones hands they can trust.

As for the difference between cars years ago, and cars today, well to my ten year old mind, I did not see that car as simple or easier back then. Anymore than this Computer was today, to my 50 year old mind. I just knew I could do it because I wanted to. So I sat in front of a Compaq for 2 years and learned everything I could about building a Computer. And just built it.

Do we know how well off we are I wonder?
Just to meet each other here, is nothing short of Magic. We could travel for the rest of our lives, and maybe we might walk past one or the other, if we were very lucky. Thanks DIY for giving us this chance to be with each other, here and now.

Well I got to go and work on a truck, so I'll see you all later.

Marturo
 
  #20  
Old 03-16-02, 09:45 PM
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Geez Marturo...you hit the nail on the head about the kids with their bike chains, lol...and the taking stuff apart. My dad used to give me stuff his customers decided not to fix and didn't want returned. I'd take EVERY screw, wire, and anything else apart, then he'd throw it away, lol. Does sound like a funny thing for a 10 year-old kid to be doing when you look at kids nowadays.
 
  #21  
Old 03-16-02, 10:13 PM
Joe_F
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Talking

Except when you get bigger, the "giveaways" get bigger. Lol.

My uncle gave me the 84 Olds I have now when he decided he was sick of paying insurance on a car my cousin never used since he lived in NYC and took the train everywhere

A neighbor of my coworker recently gave me a 1980 Trans Am, T top, that even runs along with a racing engine (one installed, one really done up) and some spare parts. Wife told him it had to go since he ordered a new Mustang .

Lol.
 
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