71 olds cutlass sup.

Reply

  #1  
Old 04-06-02, 01:51 PM
GENECC
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
71 olds cutlass sup.

i am having trouble identifing the motor it suppose to have a 350 rocket 2bl carb. the manifold and water pump are 455. does any one know about the 350 rocket motor and is it suppose to have a 455 manifold and water pump or is is a 455?
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-06-02, 03:12 PM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Oldsmobile numbers are usually stamped behind the power steering pump or in the area in front of the manifold.

Do a search on www.google.com for "Oldsmobile Engne numbers" and you'll find numerous sites that tell you how to identify them and what you have.

Probably have a 350 with some 455 parts on it. Not uncommon. Old GM V8 stuff swaps easily between years and engine sizes of the same division.
 
  #3  
Old 04-06-02, 10:30 PM
knuckles
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
1. A 455 intake manifold will only fit 400, 425 and 455 CI Olds engines.

2. Same applies to 455 exhaust manifolds.

3. The water pump is pretty much universal....It'll fit any Olds V-8 engine from 260-455 CI.

As Joe_F said, locate the engine ID numbers on the block & compare them to info available on-line to correctly ID your engine.
 
  #4  
Old 04-07-02, 06:44 AM
GENECC
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
71 qlds cutlass

in 71 thay didn't make the cutlass with a 400 or 425
 
  #5  
Old 04-07-02, 07:57 AM
Billdo49er
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
knuckles is correct a 455 is a big block and doesn't match up parts to a 350(which is a small block)
Olds did put a 455 in that vehicle in 1971.
 

Last edited by Billdo49er; 04-07-02 at 09:06 AM.
  #6  
Old 04-07-02, 09:15 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Correct. The 350 and the 455 are of different block designs. I just reread what I wrote.

That is because I am used to Pontiac which does NOT have big and small block stuff. Things swap quite easily

That being said, look on the web for Oldsmobile engine numbers resources and go from there.

Here's one that I have used in the past and it's quite good:

http://my.inil.com/~dlbrown/ofblk.htm

Good luck and let us know what you find.
 
  #7  
Old 04-07-02, 09:19 AM
Billdo49er
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
The 455 is a Pontiac motor.Which is a big block.
They also made a 400 small block and a 400 big block.
 
  #8  
Old 04-07-02, 09:26 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Nope.

Oldsmobile made a 455, and so did Pontiac and Buick. Chevy had a 454.

455 vin code W in Pontiac. Rare and desirable in a 1976 Trans Am.
455 vin code T in Olds. My coworker owns three of them in 1976 Olds 98's.
455 vin W (I believe) in Buick. Also used in full size cars through 1976.

Chevy's 400 was a small block. Pontiac's 400 is neither. I know, I have two of them, with a third 400 on the way .

The 455 stops in all divisions in 1976. Smaller displacement engines replaced them in 1977 such as the 403 in the Oldsmobile line, the 400 continued service in the Pontiac line through 1979, and the Buick engine shrunk to 350 (vin X, vin J, vin H) from 1977 to 1980, carrying over as a 350 vin B in Canada in 1981 only.

There is no Pontiac small and big block. Pontiac blocks are externally identical from the the "LS5" 265 vin S through the 455 win W. There is no small and big block in Pontiac. Jim Mattison of Pontiac Historical Services confirmed this to me in an e-mail when one buster on the F body group wanted proof from outside the forum. I provided it and that guy has never challenged anyone again

Case in point. If there were a small and big block Pontiac, the engine bracket part numbers for the 301 Turbo and the 455 wouldn't be the same. They are. I have the last two NOS ones sitting in my garage from a dealer I bought out .
 
  #9  
Old 04-07-02, 09:33 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Here's the e-mail from Jim Mattison of PHS.

He forgot about the 265, which was a small Pontiac V8 used in some 1980 and 1981 Pontiacs. Marturo of this forum has one in his 1981 Bonneville. It is a 301's little brother.

The first part of the note challenges what someone said in the F body forum: That you couldn't get a 1967 400 4 speed Firebird. I proved the guy wrong with a cowl tag and vin number of a 16,000 mile original, which Jim Mattison confirmed.

The second part is Jim's support of my contention and fact that there is no Pontiac small and big block engines.

--------
Joe,

In 1967, you could get a 4-speed transmission on "any" Firebird, from the 1bbl six
cylinder, to the Ram Air.

The Pontiac V-8 engine is dimentionally bigger than a small block Chevy and smaller
than the big block Chevy. All Pontiac engines are the same size externally, from the
301 to the 455.

Jim Mattison
 
  #10  
Old 04-07-02, 11:47 PM
knuckles
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
GENECC:

in 71 thay didn't make the cutlass with a 400 or 425
I know that. I was simply pointing out the BIG BLOCK OLDSMOBILE engines that a 455 manifold would fit. The big block intake manifolds are about an inch wider than the small block manifolds...therefore, they'll only fit on a BIG BLOCK engine. So...if you have a big block manifold, you must have a 400, 425, or 455. You won't know WHICH engine you have until you run the numbers.

Joe_F:



Chevy's 400 was a small block.


Not necessarily. Too add to the confusion, Chevy offered a "Big Block 400" in the full size cars and trucks in the early 1970s. Its actual displacement was 402 CI, but the fender badges and service manuals listed it as a 400.
 
  #11  
Old 04-08-02, 03:44 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Thumbs up

That's true .

But as you said, the actual displacement was a 402, not a 400, even though it said 400 on the fender. I meant the true 400 small block

Case in point: From 1977 to 1979, there are two 6.6 liter engines used in Trans Ams. A 403 vin K Oldsmobile and a 400 vin Z Pontiac (which I have...it's the rarer of the two...and the better ).

That being said, both the base 400 in 1977 and 1978 say "6.6 LITRE" on the shaker scoop. Only the W72 400 says "T/A 6.6" in 77 and 78 and in 1979 they all say "T/A 6.6" as 1979 400's are leftover 1978 W72's destined only for the Pontiac F car.

I can't tell you how many "restorations" I see with T/A 6.6 on the scoop and a 403 in the engine bay. Lol. Or I see a 6.6 LITRE on a 1979 400. Lol. It's due to the fact that some decal reproducers have set up their kits in an odd way, making the T/A 6.6 decal a separate item, confusing matters more. On a 10th Anniversary reproduction decal kit, the only difference is the shaker scoop. The 6.6 liter ones come automatically, you have to buy the T/A 6.6 ones (but you get the 6.6 liter ones anyhow) if you have a 400. Whew!

However the engines are vastly different.

Also, the stamping codes on the engines are different. . Not to mention in 1972, the vin codes are different .
 
  #12  
Old 04-10-02, 09:21 AM
GENECC
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
thanks

t/y joe and everybody for helping me figure out what size motot i had. it was real confussing the title says 350 and the aircleaner says 350 rocket.but the intake ad water pump are for a 455.i found the difference when i changed thegasket for the thrmostat.i got the one for a 350 and it was wrong i took the houseing to the parts store and thay tod me it was for a big block. like a 400 and up.in that year thay only made the 350 and 455.thanks again
 
  #13  
Old 04-10-02, 01:17 PM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
It's not likely you have big and small block parts on the same engine as Knuckles said...they are not interchangeable.

What did the block turn out to be based on the sight I sent you with the ID numbers?
 
  #14  
Old 04-13-02, 07:02 AM
GENECC
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
71 olds cutlass

t/y for your help i ran all the numbers and it seems that the 350 rocket motor was built with a 455 intake and water pump it a special big block 350. which was not uncommon in the 71.its a raceing motor.which can be built up to a 455 if desired i almost have my problem fixed.all thee parts were orginal,the
carb had never been rebuilt or changed i rebuilt it there was 1/2 in of sh-- in the bowl car roun great now but 1 problem still when you take off or punch it. it bogs then takes off what causes that?
 
  #15  
Old 04-13-02, 09:31 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Usually a bad accelerator pump in the carburetor, but there could be other woes with it if it was so gummed up.
 
  #16  
Old 04-13-02, 11:13 AM
GENECC
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
71 olds cutlass

i am hopeing that the valves aren't messed up i talked to the previous owner this morning he said that he had the carb rebuilt a year ago, not fom what i saw in it. i dida total rebuid springs,bearnigs.needle valves,every hole,port,there was not a spec of dirt or dust when i put it on the car,someone got ripped off. he couldn't belive how good it sounds now. the orginal timming chain is still in it. (my next project) i'm going to do a total rebuild to the engine this winter so you know i'll be here asking questions.
 
  #17  
Old 04-17-02, 11:51 AM
GENECC
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
71 olds cutlass

joe f

i found a site for the olds engine and apparently you were wrong about the inake manifold it isn't an inch wider there is no difference in the 350 and 455 intake. it's the heads that are an inch taller. the 350 and 455 intakes are interchangeable, the same is true for the water pump. on the 350 the water pump has a plug on top which can be removed to fit the 455 intake here is the site i found (Olds FAQ -- Engines)
 
  #18  
Old 04-17-02, 11:57 AM
GENECC
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 71 olds cutlass

Originally posted by GENECC
joe f

i found a site for the olds engine and apparently you were wrong about the inake manifold it isn't an inch wider there is no difference in the 350 and 455 intake. it's the heads that are an inch taller. the 350 and 455 intakes are interchangeable, the same is true for the water pump. on the 350 the water pump has a plug on top which can be removed to fit the 455 intake here is the site i found (Olds FAQ -- Engines)
heres the linkOlds FAQ -- Engines
Address:http://my.inil.com/~dlbrown/ofeng.htm Changed:9:52 AM on Wednesday,
 
  #19  
Old 04-17-02, 12:23 PM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Ya, Ok. But all the parts aren't interchangeable, and that's what we were driving at . I didn't have specific reference in front of me at the time of the post . There IS a big and small block Olds V8 and not all the parts interchange.

I also believe it was Knuckles that made the original statement about the intake if you look up a few posts . I just repeated what he said, I guess. We all make mistakes.

I have seen that site, it is very good. I only have one Oldsmobile, an 84 Delta 88 with a 307. The rest of my fleet is Pontiac V8s. Pontiac used Olds 403's in the Trans Ams, but I don't buy 'em. Too common and not rare enough .

The Olds V8 is a very nice design and is quite reliable.

We need to know by numbers what's in the machine first. Then we can determine what fits together.

That's part of the learning process .

So what do we have here? What year block, heads, mainfold, and from what engine size? What does your research reveal?
 
  #20  
Old 04-17-02, 09:55 PM
knuckles
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Read Carefully

I was wrong about the 455 intakes. They aren't 1" wider...they're 2" wider!!!

The following quote is a direct copy & paste from the Olds site you posted:

Is it a Big Block or Small Block (1964 - 1990) Engine?
There are three ways:

A big block measures 14" between the heads at the manifold base, while a small block measure 12" between the heads at the manifold base.
More from the same site:

Differences & Similarities: Olds BB and SB

The gaskets for SB Olds and BB Olds are pretty much identical. The oil pan rails, front cover, water pump, fuel pump, and even head gaskets are the same. The major difference is the deck height of the block and thus the width of the intake (thus the difference in the intake tray gasket).
A 455 (or 400 or 425, for that matter) intake manifold WILL NOT FIT on a small block engine.

If you read my original reply carefully, you'll see that I stated that the water pumps are pretty much universal across the entire Olds V-8 line. That is, a 350 pump will fit a 455 and vice versa.
 
  #21  
Old 04-18-02, 05:45 AM
Joe_F
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Right! Either way, SOME parts swap, some do not!

The Pontiac 301 and 400 use the same water pump and internal divider plate, but they use different heads and other parts too. GM engines of the same family (Olds V8, Pontiac V8) tend to share parts, but not all.

Best bet is to go by references such as the ones we furnished or GM parts books and go from there.

Either way, there is a small and big block Olds V8 and not everything swaps.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes