Pinging and Knocking

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  #1  
Old 05-02-02, 04:26 PM
danielmccoy
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Pinging and Knocking

1986 Ford Taurus, 3.0 liter, 6 cylinder, 155K miles.
Constant pinging and knocking while accelerating, getting worse. Changed EGR valve, spark plugs, wires, rotor, distributor cap approx. 10k miles ago. Timing adjusted 200 miles ago. Ran fuel injector cleaner thru tank of gas. No improvement. Fuel pressure checks okay. I'm using BP 89 octane gas. Any suggestions?
 
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  #2  
Old 05-02-02, 06:09 PM
Joe_F
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No need to "adjust" the timing on a modern car.

It likely has slack/slop in the timing chain at this mileage and age.
 
  #3  
Old 05-07-02, 07:41 PM
danielmccoy
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Vehicle now stalls frequently. I took the car into a local repair shop and they said it is running 'lean' which is causing the stalling and pinging. They checked the fuel pressure, MAP sensor and both are good. They concluded it appears to be fuel related and pointed the finger at the fuel injectors. Rather than pay them $400 I replaced the fuel injectors and fuel pressure regulator myself. This did not fix the problem. If it is indeed fuel related then that leaves the fuel pump and filters. I'm hesitant to replace the pump since the pressure checks are within specs. Any suggestions??? What else controls the fuel/air mixture? This vehicle does not have a MAF sensor.
 
  #4  
Old 05-07-02, 11:34 PM
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Was the pressure checked with engine off, key on, or while running at idle, or while driving? I wouldn't put too much into this car, I see them for sale all the time for probably about the price you paid for the injectors. When the taurus came out, it was supposed to be the ideal car, but...well, we all know the story. Do you have any trouble codes? It may not even be fuel related. How about your vacuum readings? That should have been checked by the mechanics before pointing to the injectors. A vacuum leak can cause all sorts of problems, including lean mixture.
 
  #5  
Old 05-07-02, 11:50 PM
knuckles
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Does the pinging/knocking occur in the first few minutes of driving?

If not, suspect the 02 sensor. The ECA ignores the O2 until the engine has been running for 2 minutes and the coolant reaches a pre-set temperature.

You also mentioned stalling....when does the stalling occur? Acceleration, decel, idle, etc. Other than the pinging, have you noticed any appreciable decrease in engine performance?
 
  #6  
Old 05-08-02, 03:30 AM
Joe_F
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I agree with Cheese and Knuckles....

Yes, it's an old heap and not worth a wooden nickel. But, something dumb sounds wrong with it.

Any trouble codes?
 
  #7  
Old 05-08-02, 07:48 PM
danielmccoy
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Fuel pressure was checked while engine idling. Pinging and knocking doesn't occur until car starts to warm up. The stalling occurs during idle and will do it immediately. It always restarts right away and runs but then when I come to a stop it 'leans' out and stalls. Since there is only one O2 sensor on this model and it had been in there for 84,000 miles I went ahead and replaced it tonight. Still have same problems. When I took it into the local repair shop they said they found a 'lean' code but it did not pinpoint the faulty component, I guess that's why they concluded fuel related.
You are correct, it's a heap of junk and the cost of injectors, regulator, O2 sensor add up to more than the car is worth but for some darn reason I just love driving it. I bought it new 16 years ago and paid cash so it has been relatively cheap transportation and I don't mind putting a few bucks into it to keep it running. I just hate to pay repair shops for something I can do myself.
Any more suggestions?
 
  #8  
Old 05-08-02, 11:28 PM
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Check your vacuum. Inspect all lines, and listen for any hissing noise. Also, is the temperature higher than normal?
 
  #9  
Old 05-09-02, 03:52 AM
Joe_F
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Might want to replace the TFI module with the updated Ford part as we know this vintage module is a troublesome unit. Rule that out.
 
  #10  
Old 05-09-02, 07:55 PM
danielmccoy
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Temperature is in normal range. All the vacuum lines I could find checked OK. Not sure what Joe means by TFI module????
I've decided to try one last thing before I take it into Ford for diagnostics, I'm replacing the fuel pump, strainer and sending unit. I dropped the tank and pulled the pump assembly out, ordered new assembly from Autozone. It was a special order so it will take 2 days to get.
 
  #11  
Old 05-09-02, 08:37 PM
Joe_F
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TFI module=Thick Film Integrated Module.

The ignition module. It is usually screwed to the side of the distributor. If it is, it's possibly defective. Ford has had numerous woes with this and in turn is eating repairs/warranties for cars back through the 80's due to a class action settlement brewing.

Ford may have sent you a letter if your car was affected. Might give a call to Ford's HQ and see what they have to say.
 
  #12  
Old 05-16-02, 07:08 AM
danielmccoy
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I finished installing the new fuel pump assembly, reset the computer and still have same problem. Looks like it's time to take it back to the shop as my troubleshooting or lack of, hasn't been successful. On a positive note my fuel economy has improved tremendously after all these repairs. Joe mentioned a possible bad TFI module, how do you test that?
 
  #13  
Old 05-16-02, 08:35 AM
Joe_F
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Again, if the module is original at this point, pitch it.

The part has been superseded by Ford many times over the original, although it is STILL problematic.

Any parts store can test the module to tell you if it's bad.
 
  #14  
Old 05-20-02, 05:18 AM
danielmccoy
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Replaced TFI module and no improvement. Took car into repair shop today for diagnostics.
 
  #15  
Old 05-20-02, 05:47 AM
Joe_F
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Who's brand of TFI module? Did you match the stamping #s from the original to the listing in the catalog? There are different ones for the different years.

Have you pulled any trouble codes from the computer in the meantime?

Again, be careful about spending money on this car, even though you say you like it. It's going to get expensive fast. The tranny is on borrowed time as these are not spectacular.
 
  #16  
Old 05-20-02, 07:54 AM
danielmccoy
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I replaced it with a WELLS module. I matched all the numbers and even the color, evidently there were grey and blue modules and you have to match the color. Perhaps I should have gotten a Motorcraft??
The computer is not returning any codes at this time.

I agree, swapping parts out has already run up the costs more than I wanted, depending on what the repair shop comes up with today I'll decide whether to trash the car or keep it. The original tranny went out at 77K so I've been thru that major repair already.
 
  #17  
Old 05-20-02, 08:22 AM
Joe_F
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Ford should have sent you a letter about reimbursement for the module. Some of them are covered by a class action settlement. Call Ford's headquarters for details.

Yes, get the latest Motorcraft part. And then bill Ford for the repair for the class action settlement. Make sure you have the latest and greatest on it to avoid troubles.

Let us know what you find.
 
  #18  
Old 05-20-02, 09:43 AM
Joe_F
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Also when you say "Adjusted the timing" a couple of questions come to mind.

a) Why? No need to adjust the timing on a modern car.
b) Where is the timing now? Set it back to factory specs.
c) Has a timing chain ever been done on this engine?

Did the problem get worse by "adjusting" the timing?
 
  #19  
Old 05-20-02, 10:25 AM
danielmccoy
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As I understand the Ford TFI module lawsuit you are only elgible for reimbursement if the vehicle had 100K or less miles at time of repair. Since I'm at 155K I'm assuming I get nothing but I will call Ford and verify.
Timing chain has never been replaced on this car. When the repair shop first looked at it they said it (timing) was off considerably. They set it back to original specs (this is an '86 with a distributor). It ran better for a day and then got worse. Sounds like it isn't staying in spec????
 
  #20  
Old 05-20-02, 10:44 AM
Joe_F
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155K on the original chain is likely part of the problem. That's a bit much. Can you see the timing marks moving around when you try to shine a light there? It might explain the pinging and dieseling. Perhaps they left the bolt loose for the distributor hold down?

As for the module replacement, I don't think there was a time limit. Look it up in the archives. Knuckles posted a link to information on the class action settlement for someone else.
 
  #21  
Old 06-02-02, 06:23 PM
danielmccoy
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Repair shop found a bad pickup coil on the distributor. The car runs like new! No stalling and no pinging! Fuel economy has gone from 19 to 28.
 
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